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holy guacamole said..

Pugwash said..What's heavy weather? Winkie/winker?

holy guacamole said..

FormulaNova said..Again, I feel compelled to point out that if the Labor party had won the election, there would be howls of protest from some people about how badly they would have managed the economy if they now have to stimulate it. I am okay with stimulus though, as it really is needed. You can't talk your way out of falling demand if its tourism and then the global economy shrinks.

How dare you talk about politics or feel compelled to press a point FN.
Take it to "Heavy Weather" FFS.

Dunno it's not visible to me, but several people keep mentioning it.

Is it where SB keeps all the lunatics and trolls out of sight?

Yes, but the truly bad ones get ejected even from there!

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Pugwash said..

holy guacamole said..

Pugwash said..What's heavy weather? Winkie/winker?

holy guacamole said..

FormulaNova said..Again, I feel compelled to point out that if the Labor party had won the election, there would be howls of protest from some people about how badly they would have managed the economy if they now have to stimulate it. I am okay with stimulus though, as it really is needed. You can't talk your way out of falling demand if its tourism and then the global economy shrinks.

How dare you talk about politics or feel compelled to press a point FN.
Take it to "Heavy Weather" FFS.

Dunno it's not visible to me, but several people keep mentioning it.

Is it where SB keeps all the lunatics and trolls out of sight?

Nah man... those people got banned... pretty lively discussion over there at the moment... shame you can't contribute...

Ooohhh, nasty talk. Lucky he is not here to hear this!

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holy guacamole said..

FormulaNova said..I felt bad about leaving you out of the conversation.

holy guacamole said..

FormulaNova said..Again, I feel compelled to point out that if the Labor party had won the election, there would be howls of protest from some people about how badly they would have managed the economy if they now have to stimulate it. I am okay with stimulus though, as it really is needed. You can't talk your way out of falling demand if its tourism and then the global economy shrinks.

How dare you talk about politics or feel compelled to press a point FN.

Take it to "Heavy Weather" FFS.

I sense this statement is totally confected and false. Am I warm?

It took me a while to look up confected, and I am still confused.

Are you warm? I don't know.

I am glad to see the govt took a leaf out of Labor's book and actually fakking did something for a change. We can discuss the various components, but I am glad to see funds going straight to welfare recipients. Though these payments need to be followed up with permanent increases to pensions and newstart.

PS all those who have whined for over a decade about Labor's stimulus spending back in 2008 can now at last give it a rest.

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Shifu said..
I am glad to see the govt took a leaf out of Labor's book and actually fakking did something for a change. We can discuss the various components, but I am glad to see funds going straight to welfare recipients. Though these payments need to be followed up with permanent increases to pensions and newstart.

PS all those who have whined for over a decade about Labor's stimulus spending back in 2008 can now at last give it a rest.

I think if you listen to the wording, the current gov has tried to distance themselves from doing the same thing as the Labor party, so dont be surprised if people see it differently.

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Shifu said..I am glad to see the govt took a leaf out of Labor's book and actually fakking did something for a change. We can discuss the various components, but I am glad to see funds going straight to welfare recipients. Though these payments need to be followed up with permanent increases to pensions and newstart.

PS all those who have whined for over a decade about Labor's stimulus spending back in 2008 can now at last give it a rest.

Yes not bad in general, considering it's a LNP government. It's not too different to Rudd's $10B First Stimulus minus the business element, which was roughly:

"$4.8 billion down payment on long-term pension reform
$3.9 billion for low and middle income families ($1000 per child, pensioners $1400, pensioner couples $2100)
$1.5 billion investment to help first home buyers
$187 million to create 56,000 new training places in 2008-09
Accelerate three nation-building funds and investment in nation building projects to 2009"
Wikipedia

I imagine if this rolls on much longer, including a possible recession they'll have to go again and harder.

Then we'll see if the whiners from 2008/9/10/11/12/13 will finally accept the reality governments face during prolonged economic downturns.

Instead of giving everyone who has no money or job money how about they drop the tax rate to 15% across the board.
having a job doesn't mean I'm loaded it means I have worked hard and busted my arse contributing to society for a long time supporting a family.

Absolutely give the money to the pensioners double it and give them 1500 not 750 and everyone else can go and get jammed.

instead of taking 30-40% of my wage maybe take 10 or 15% and let me the working man decide how and where I will spend the change.

make me change my mind

You'll get no qualms from me to reduce income tax rates, so long as you accept that the revenue shortfall will probably have to come from those who can afford it and likely make the loudest protestation at the very idea of paying more.

However, cutting tax rates does very little to stimulate the economy this quarter and only marginally more next which is likely when we'll be in recession short of a miracle - hence the broad stimulus payments to people likely to spend it all right now.

ScoMo believes in miracles I understand...

They should spend it on FTTP for the NBN.

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Harrow said..
They should spend it on FTTP for the NBN.

LOL. Early rip up of Tony Abbott's copper filled green nodes then? Bring it on.

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Razzonater said..
Instead of giving everyone who has no money or job money how about they drop the tax rate to 15% across the board.
having a job doesn't mean I'm loaded it means I have worked hard and busted my arse contributing to society for a long time supporting a family.

Absolutely give the money to the pensioners double it and give them 1500 not 750 and everyone else can go and get jammed.

instead of taking 30-40% of my wage maybe take 10 or 15% and let me the working man decide how and where I will spend the change.

make me change my mind

So who is going to pay that extra money (or any money) to the pensioners when the amount of tax drops?

When you say "everyone else can go get jammed" does that mean to pay for more money for the pensioners and less tax intake, you will sack the cops, the nurses, the border security staff, the quarantine guys, the defence forces and the rest? When all those people mentioned above suddenly end up without a job, what will the economy do?

The average married worker with two children in Australia has less than 17% of their wage going in income tax. If you are paying over 30% your wage in income tax, you must be on over $250k p.a. even without allowing for kids etc. If you are working hard and doing 55 hours a week, you're pulling in $100 an hour. To get to 40% you must be pulling in ****loads. You must therefore be one of the rich people, so why shouldn't you pay a lot of tax?

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holy guacamole said..

Shifu said..I am glad to see the govt took a leaf out of Labor's book and actually fakking did something for a change. We can discuss the various components, but I am glad to see funds going straight to welfare recipients. Though these payments need to be followed up with permanent increases to pensions and newstart.

PS all those who have whined for over a decade about Labor's stimulus spending back in 2008 can now at last give it a rest.

Yes not bad in general, considering it's a LNP government. It's not too different to Rudd's $10B First Stimulus minus the business element, which was roughly:

"$4.8 billion down payment on long-term pension reform
$3.9 billion for low and middle income families ($1000 per child, pensioners $1400, pensioner couples $2100)
$1.5 billion investment to help first home buyers
$187 million to create 56,000 new training places in 2008-09
Accelerate three nation-building funds and investment in nation building projects to 2009"
Wikipedia

I imagine if this rolls on much longer, including a possible recession they'll have to go again and harder.

Then we'll see if the whiners from 2008/9/10/11/12/13 will finally accept the reality governments face during prolonged economic downturns.

I agree, not bad..................so far

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Chris 249 said..

Razzonater said..
Instead of giving everyone who has no money or job money how about they drop the tax rate to 15% across the board.
having a job doesn't mean I'm loaded it means I have worked hard and busted my arse contributing to society for a long time supporting a family.

Absolutely give the money to the pensioners double it and give them 1500 not 750 and everyone else can go and get jammed.

instead of taking 30-40% of my wage maybe take 10 or 15% and let me the working man decide how and where I will spend the change.

make me change my mind

So who is going to pay that extra money (or any money) to the pensioners when the amount of tax drops?

When you say "everyone else can go get jammed" does that mean to pay for more money for the pensioners and less tax intake, you will sack the cops, the nurses, the border security staff, the quarantine guys, the defence forces and the rest? When all those people mentioned above suddenly end up without a job, what will the economy do?

The average married worker with two children in Australia has less than 17% of their wage going in income tax. If you are paying over 30% your wage in income tax, you must be on over $250k p.a. even without allowing for kids etc. If you are working hard and doing 55 hours a week, you're pulling in $100 an hour. To get to 40% you must be pulling in ****loads. You must therefore be one of the rich people, so why shouldn't you pay a lot of tax?

I'm going to break down your retort one section at a time, cops get billions in revenue into the economy through fines, it's actually a really good business model, additionally I pay taxes when I buy fuel and register my vehicle to drive on the roads. I'd say that the police department would be one of the few cash positive sections of government. Pretty much the only government owned service that society needs of contributes,,,,, defence forces, they do suck in a lot of tax dollars and get involved in overseas conflicts far to regularly for what is "best for society" I admire everyone who served in it ,, it's just that the lunatics ( politicians) control the asylum.
Nurses and doctors absolutely we need them, but now we all have private health this is also subsidised further with big business taking most of the tax money, the actual nurses would see .001% of the money dedicated to health expenses , mainly as it is poorly managed. Take the hospital just built in Perth 350 million dollars and unusable for five years..... wonder how many nurses that could of paid????

part 2 personal attack on my "alleged income"
if you make 110 k a year in Australia you are taxed at 27.63% and around 39% for every dollar after that.

this gives you 78 grand a year or 15-1600 a week to pay a mortgage to house your three kids and wife who needs to raise them. Additionally to make this money you may have to work night shift in a high risk industry , flying to places like Ghana and India getting dysentery malaria and other diseases. Some places may even be on the government high risk travel list 80% of the time.

With Perth having a median house price of around 500k you have fortnightly repayments over thirty years of around 11-1300 a fortnight or around 40% of your pay, putting you directly into the mortgage stress realm.
additionally with children you have many expenses, it is calculated every child will cost around $250-300,000 to raise until 18 not including university or tafe or private schools
So with 40% of your pay gone on a house for your family, 10% on a car to ensure they have half a chance to get to school and activities. You are left with around 6-700 to feed, clothe, pay bills, land rates, and maintain your house, this averages out to 150 per person over the week or twenty dollars a day per person to complete all of the above..
If you are on 110 a year and doing this and you decide to do a few extra hours you will than get taxed 39% of every hour of work as god forbid the kids deserve Christmas and the wife deserves a haircut once a month.

Chris you are an absolute peanut, I contribute to society and am raising three little future tax payers.
I wish I was on 250 grand a year a s I wouldn't spend my time on here arguing with people with the iq of a tic tac.
Instead is be sitting in my motor yacht with a cigar in my mouth counting my money.

But that is about as likely as you having a grasp on tax brackets.

Only $750 to pensioners???? You cant even afford an LT for that let alone the marina mooring fees to store it .
$750 for doll bludgers, hell yeah, pot and ice dealers are rubbing their hands together.

Who doesnt contribute (paying taxes) should keep their mouths shut. Their opinion is irrelevant.
Want to speak up? Good...pay more taxes first.
But

To get elected pollies need votes. If you dont pay a single dollar, or give away45% of your income to the system guess what it still count as one vote at both cases.
Guess who is served first in times like this...

Federal income taxes are way too high in Australia. Raising the tax free threshold by ten or twenty thousand dollars a year would benefit all income tax payers, especially those on lower income. Remember Julia Gillard did this and we are all the better for it. Unless of course you don't pay income tax.

We used to get a pretty good income from the electricity networks. Now most of it goes overseas via tax havens.

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Harrow said..
We used to get a pretty good income from the electricity networks. Now most of it goes overseas via tax havens.

Lol yeah true and don't forget our rivers of gas going offshore for almost nil return to taxpayers or even the producers to boot.

^^^ Yep, and we still have that 1950's mentality that we must give corporations tax/royalty breaks for them to set up shop here ................... let them buy in I reckon

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Razzonater said..




part 2 personal attack on my "alleged income"
if you make 110 k a year in Australia you are taxed at 27.63% and around 39% for every dollar after that.

this gives you 78 grand a year or 15-1600 a week to pay a mortgage to house your three kids and wife who needs to raise them.

Chris you are an absolute peanut, I contribute to society and am raising three little future tax payers.
I wish I was on 250 grand a year a s I wouldn't spend my time on here arguing with people with the iq of a tic tac.
Instead is be sitting in my motor yacht with a cigar in my mouth counting my money.

But that is about as likely as you having a grasp on tax brackets.

Actually, you aren't paying any tax. You are a net beneficiary of the tax system because your 3 kids education and health expenses are covered by the government.
Public schools are funded at about $14 000 per student. Times 3 equals $42K vs about $30K tax paid.

Chris you need to revisit the tax income brackets again dude.

The stimulation package is nothing new during this part of the cycle and it's only the start. Be ready for far more, lowering (even more) interest rates, banks getting around the restrictions imposed after the GFC plus a host of other government incentives.
Then they will slap each other on the back for taming the downturn and usher in the next boom... then crash.
read your history lads and get your heads out of the current noises ass. Cause it's just sh1t, smoke and mirrors.

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Mr Milk said..

Razzonater said..




part 2 personal attack on my "alleged income"
if you make 110 k a year in Australia you are taxed at 27.63% and around 39% for every dollar after that.

this gives you 78 grand a year or 15-1600 a week to pay a mortgage to house your three kids and wife who needs to raise them.

Chris you are an absolute peanut, I contribute to society and am raising three little future tax payers.
I wish I was on 250 grand a year a s I wouldn't spend my time on here arguing with people with the iq of a tic tac.
Instead is be sitting in my motor yacht with a cigar in my mouth counting my money.

But that is about as likely as you having a grasp on tax brackets.

Actually, you aren't paying any tax. You are a net beneficiary of the tax system because your 3 kids education and health expenses are covered by the government.
Public schools are funded at about $14 000 per student. Times 3 equals $42K vs about $30K tax paid.

Incorrect these three human will all have jobs in future and ideally be paying the same if not more tax therefore returning the funding to government year on year for around a 40-50 year working life.
Investing in the education of a society you tax to increase the available population which can be taxed does not put me in a net positive beneficiary position from the government.

Further at 14 grand per student with a single teacher teaching around 25 kids that's 350 grand a year per classroom with a teachers wages being 80-100 of that.

Clearly a lot of that 250k left over gets allocated to other areas which isn't schooling but falls into the big bucket of cash government gives to private schools for rowing clubs and extra ovals.

The primary school I attended as a child was sold to developers for land it consisted of 2 large ovals, bush land and a sprawling school over about 4 hectares.

A house block in that area is nowadays 350k for 400 metres so there is also extra cash being generated from all of these sales

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eppo said..
Chris you need to revisit the tax income brackets again dude.

The stimulation package is nothing new during this part of the cycle and it's only the start. Be ready for far more, lowering (even more) interest rates, banks getting around the restrictions imposed after the GFC plus a host of other government incentives.
Then they will slap each other on the back for taming the downturn and usher in the next boom... then crash.
read your history lads and get your heads out of the current noises ass. Cause it's just sh1t, smoke and mirrors.

Here's the ATO's own tax rate guide www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ . You DON'T pay "30-40% of your wage". You pay over 30% % for PART of your wage, which is a big difference to paying "30-40%" over ALL your wage.

As Razzonator says himself "if you are 110 k a year in Australia you are taxed at 27.63% and around 39% for every dollar after that, this gives you 78 grand a year". That's twenty nine percent tax NOT "30 to 40", even by Razzonator's own figures.

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Razzonater said..

Chris 249 said..

Razzonater said..
Instead of giving everyone who has no money or job money how about they drop the tax rate to 15% across the board.
having a job doesn't mean I'm loaded it means I have worked hard and busted my arse contributing to society for a long time supporting a family.

Absolutely give the money to the pensioners double it and give them 1500 not 750 and everyone else can go and get jammed.

instead of taking 30-40% of my wage maybe take 10 or 15% and let me the working man decide how and where I will spend the change.

make me change my mind

So who is going to pay that extra money (or any money) to the pensioners when the amount of tax drops?

When you say "everyone else can go get jammed" does that mean to pay for more money for the pensioners and less tax intake, you will sack the cops, the nurses, the border security staff, the quarantine guys, the defence forces and the rest? When all those people mentioned above suddenly end up without a job, what will the economy do?

The average married worker with two children in Australia has less than 17% of their wage going in income tax. If you are paying over 30% your wage in income tax, you must be on over $250k p.a. even without allowing for kids etc. If you are working hard and doing 55 hours a week, you're pulling in $100 an hour. To get to 40% you must be pulling in ****loads. You must therefore be one of the rich people, so why shouldn't you pay a lot of tax?

I'm going to break down your retort one section at a time, cops get billions in revenue into the economy through fines, it's actually a really good business model, additionally I pay taxes when I buy fuel and register my vehicle to drive on the roads. I'd say that the police department would be one of the few cash positive sections of government. Pretty much the only government owned service that society needs of contributes,,,,, defence forces, they do suck in a lot of tax dollars and get involved in overseas conflicts far to regularly for what is "best for society" I admire everyone who served in it ,, it's just that the lunatics ( politicians) control the asylum.
Nurses and doctors absolutely we need them, but now we all have private health this is also subsidised further with big business taking most of the tax money, the actual nurses would see .001% of the money dedicated to health expenses , mainly as it is poorly managed. Take the hospital just built in Perth 350 million dollars and unusable for five years..... wonder how many nurses that could of paid????

part 2 personal attack on my "alleged income"
if you make 110 k a year in Australia you are taxed at 27.63% and around 39% for every dollar after that.

this gives you 78 grand a year or 15-1600 a week to pay a mortgage to house your three kids and wife who needs to raise them. Additionally to make this money you may have to work night shift in a high risk industry , flying to places like Ghana and India getting dysentery malaria and other diseases. Some places may even be on the government high risk travel list 80% of the time.

With Perth having a median house price of around 500k you have fortnightly repayments over thirty years of around 11-1300 a fortnight or around 40% of your pay, putting you directly into the mortgage stress realm.
additionally with children you have many expenses, it is calculated every child will cost around $250-300,000 to raise until 18 not including university or tafe or private schools
So with 40% of your pay gone on a house for your family, 10% on a car to ensure they have half a chance to get to school and activities. You are left with around 6-700 to feed, clothe, pay bills, land rates, and maintain your house, this averages out to 150 per person over the week or twenty dollars a day per person to complete all of the above..
If you are on 110 a year and doing this and you decide to do a few extra hours you will than get taxed 39% of every hour of work as god forbid the kids deserve Christmas and the wife deserves a haircut once a month.

Chris you are an absolute peanut, I contribute to society and am raising three little future tax payers.
I wish I was on 250 grand a year a s I wouldn't spend my time on here arguing with people with the iq of a tic tac.
Instead is be sitting in my motor yacht with a cigar in my mouth counting my money.

But that is about as likely as you having a grasp on tax brackets.

I don't know why you decided to throw around the silly insults, especially since I wasn't "attacking you", but you are simply wrong.
For a start, as YOUR OWN FIGURES SHOW, even on an above-average income of $110k you are not paying "30 to 40% tax on your wages". You are paying 29% BY YOUR OWN FIGURES. I don't know why you chose to get pissed off at me when your own figures agree with precisely what I said.

I didn't say you were on $250k or that you were on easy street. The point was that you are not paying anything like 40% of your total wage in tax until you are earning big money.

So let's look at your other points;

1- " cops get billions in revenue into the economy through fines, it's actually a really good business model, additionally I pay taxes when I buy fuel and register my vehicle to drive on the roads. I'd say that the police department would be one of the few cash positive sections of government".

Completely and utterly wrong. The WA police do NOT "get billions" in fines - they got $101,214,000 which is less than 10% of what they paid in employees, less than twice as much as they paid for accommodation, and about 7% of their total cost. You are out by a factor of ten or more. Source - the latest annual report.

2- "Nurses and doctors absolutely we need them, but now we all have private health this is also subsidised further with big business taking most of the tax money, the actual nurses would see .001% of the money dedicated to health expenses".

Wrong and wrong. We do not "all" have private health - about 45% of Australians do not. Salaries are actually 60% of recurring expenditure and nurse salaries make up most of that (source - AIHW Hospital resources 2017-18: Australian hospital statistics ) so nurses get vastly more than ".001 of the money dedicated to health expenses".

So for all your silly insults, you are completely and utterly wrong, and normally wrong by miles.

3- I don't know why you assume I haven't raised future taxpayers and paid for them. As Mr Love notes, once you count the cost of educating kids and everything else, many typical taxpayer in Australia are NOT subsidising other people, but being subsidised.

4- I don't know why you apparently think I was trying to say that someone paying off a mortgage with a family has it easy. I never said such a thing. What I was pointing out, if you'd noticed, was that the top earners are NOT paying proportionately all that much tax.

Maybe you should stop throwing around stupid (and incorrect) insults and actually get your figures right, at least within a factor of 10 or so.

More and more I see /read people confusing State and Federal income and expense . Income tax - federal. Fines ,electricity, rego etc. etc. state. In WA and Qld huge royalties State. Best solution scrap State Govts.Could always do a NZ and increase the GST to 15% . Oh and pay everyone over 65 a pension irrespective of personal wealth per NZ.

V
V
Yeah the sicker you are the more tax you pay NZ gst style ....such a great idea

It's actually "trickling" both ways, there's a $750 payment for those that are eligible and good business tax breaks to help businesses retain employees for when it bounces back. The 50% payback of PAYG withholding is a brilliant idea for smaller businesses. ie you put your businesses full PAYG liability in with your BAS and the business only has to fork out 50% to cover it. Instant writedowns for big CAPEX for bigger businesses to spend money and then offset existing tax bills, there's a bit of everything.

Stimulus would now appear a waste of time at the moment... money is charging through the economy for panic buying... hope nobody needs a fridge/freezer any time soon.

I dunno Pugsy, our dishwasher karked it last week after only getting a measly 11.5 years out of it and I charged straight down the Good Guys and got another one for $525 ............ that's '90s prices Chinese production will be back on line soon once their supply chains get back up and running and it'll be business as usual.

Of course everyone realises that part pensioners or self managed close to the pension cut off line will be laughing with this crash if they had investments for the income they derived and not as traders. In Jan 17 the Govt were conned into changing the pension allocation where the full pension was reduced for assets valued over the cut off point from $1.50 per $1000 to $3.00 . So pensions were reduced quite dramatically .
Now with the crash if a part pensioners investments have dropped say $40,000
they will receive an extra $3X40 per fortnight ie, 7.8%pa plus there's more with the reduction of the deeming rate.
Not a bad return
Only catch is Centrelink only revalues investments app. monthly and you have to ask for a revaluation.
Bring on retirement