I attended a refresher course for my first aid qualifications last weekend. Something was mentioned by the instructor that I feel is particularly worthy of passing on.

The task of the first aider is to buy time for the patient until professional help arrives. The acronym DRS ABCD helps us remember these steps:-
D - check for danger to yourself before going to assist
R - response. Can the patient tell you of their condition?
S - send for help - see the following

A – check that the airway is clear
B - check for breathing and a pulse
C - commence CPR if needed
D - use defibrillator, if CPR doesn't get results

It's the "S" step that I want to bring to your attention. Many / most of us carry smart phones. There's an Australian-developed application, called Emergency+, free from the app store, that has hot links to Triple Zero, SES, Police, Crime Stoppers and Health Direct. Emergency+ calculates and displays your location, as a street address, if possible, and as latitude and longitude co-ordinates.

In my opinion, everyone should have this application installed and ready to use. You might not be the one administering the first aid, but you may be able to assist. By saving time in summonsing the paramedics, it might save a life, perhaps that of a complete stranger, or perhaps someone very dear to you.

Note: there's a similar application, called EmergencyPlus. This is the USA version. You want Emergency+

I have 'bites and stings' app as well as the Red Cross First Aid app. Bites and stings includes first aid, emergency call and info on our local venomous creatures and treatment. EmergencyAus is a good app for checking out local incidents (especially fires) as well as allowing you to make observations.

We are very well represented in Aus with first-aiders and these apps are a great resource.

I was gonna green thumb, but I don't get a hit on Emergency+.

Nor Red Cross First Aid...

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Buster fin said...
I was gonna green thumb, but I don't get a hit on Emergency+.

Nor Red Cross First Aid...

Australian Apple app store:

They are good, but I would never rely on it totally. Still call 000.

I personally have seen an emergency app give a location of a bush block on the outskirts of town, 2km away from where the actual emergency was (a caravan park on a real street in a real town).

It took Police 40mins to find them (involving a heap of hurried phonecalls to figure out who hit the panic button where they may live, lots of relatives scared sh!tless in the process.) Not good.

Still call up.

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Mark _australia said...
They are good, but I would never rely on it totally. Still call 000.

Emergency+ and bites & stings both have 000 buttons that call from your phone. The advantages of the apps are that they also provide some great information that can prompt the crucial call.

I assume you can film the emergency while using the app at the same time? Most people now consider recording an emergency more important than responding to it...

As a past fire captain I think this app has merit BUT as stated the current location it gave for me wasn't within 2.1 kms of where I was.

000 or 911 in Australia. You are under no obligation legally to assist a life threatening instance or obligated to give cpr If you choose to. If you do respond to a person who is unable to respond to a audioable summons (deemed unconscious )You will not be held liable for any damages ( pulling a person with back injuries out of a car) You can not be held liable for someone unconscious and your trying cpr ! (including kids)

I did the refresher a few months back and we bombarded the trainer with legal questions ! he did recommend carrying on of these.^ ! This is due to the fact you may be putting yourself at risk engaging in cpr.

We do it at work There boring videos but well worth a watch !

The biggest problem with rescusitation is the mouth-to-mouth bit and the very high likelyhood of vomit or bodily fluid contamination. If you're going to spend $5 on one of those poxy pocket shields, instead try spending $20 on one of these.

www.laerdal.com/au/doc/116/The-BAG-II-Disposable-Resuscitator

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busterwa said..




000 or 911 in Australia. You are under no obligation legally to assist a life threatening instance or obligated to give cpr If you choose to. If you do respond to a person who is unable to respond to a audioable summons (deemed unconscious )You will not be held liable for any damages ( pulling a person with back injuries out of a car) You can not be held liable for someone unconscious and your trying cpr ! (including kids)

I did the refresher a few months back and we bombarded the trainer with legal questions ! he did recommend carrying on of these.^ ! This is due to the fact you may be putting yourself at risk engaging in cpr.

We do it at work There boring videos but well worth a watch !

The highlighted bit - pretty bad advice there. NO you don't have to do things that are beyond your capabilities......... but the offences of failing to render assistance (at a traffic crash) or failing to provide necessities of life (any situation) DO still exist. So if you stand motionless you can be held accountable. Nobody expects you to provide a trachyotomy or something, but if somebody simply needs dragging away form a scene and pressure on a wound and you do fk all you can be charged (and deserve to be, IMO)

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You are under no obligation legally to assist

However, the next ar$eh0le that stands there filming the blood and gore [while refusing to help me stop the bleeding] will need a trip to ER to get their iPhone removed from the tail end of their digestive tract.

Twice, I have had bystanders do nothing to help - granted - most were pissed as newts, but it isn't that hard to call for help or, like Mark said - apply pressure to a cut.

Must admit though - plenty of times I had so much "helpful help" being offered it was embarrassing

stephen

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Mark _australia said...

busterwa said..




000 or 911 in Australia. You are under no obligation legally to assist a life threatening instance or obligated to give cpr If you choose to. If you do respond to a person who is unable to respond to a audioable summons (deemed unconscious )You will not be held liable for any damages ( pulling a person with back injuries out of a car) You can not be held liable for someone unconscious and your trying cpr ! (including kids)

I did the refresher a few months back and we bombarded the trainer with legal questions ! he did recommend carrying on of these.^ ! This is due to the fact you may be putting yourself at risk engaging in cpr.

We do it at work There boring videos but well worth a watch !

The highlighted bit - pretty bad advice there. NO you don't have to do things that are beyond your capabilities......... but the offences of failing to render assistance (at a traffic crash) or failing to provide necessities of life (any situation) DO still exist. So if you stand motionless you can be held accountable. Nobody expects you to provide a trachyotomy or something, but if somebody simply needs dragging away form a scene and pressure on a wound and you do fk all you can be charged (and deserve to be, IMO)

Sorry Mark - not true. You don't have to render assistance...but if you choose to, and make a start - you must continue to provide assistance until the ambos arrive. Many professional 'medically trained' professionals won't stop at an accident scene for reasons that are difficult to explain. There are 2 legal precedents in place the 'good Samaritan rule', where you cannot be held responsible for the outcome where you have provided assistance within 'your training', and your 'moral obligation' - where if you choose to start assisting an injured person, you must stay until additional assistance arrives on scene.

I'm happy to stand corrected, but I'll continue to spend my valuable time being both a rescuer and training those in rescue techniques until a point where the rescuer is held responsible for the outcome not within their training. In many cases, a bystander is much better off not being involved as they and their families will suffer the grief that can be isolated to just the casualty's family.


As a volunteer rescuer and trainer/assessor of rescuers - I'm fully aware of my/our obligations (in uniform and off duty). The comment that you must render assistance is profound as I can tell (in most cases) what the outcome will possibly be - although I've been happily corrected on rescues where the casualties have made miraculous recoveries. This keeps me doing what I do by the way.

I volunteer enough of my time trying to rescue people that have made stupid decisions and whilst I will continue to provide my time to help others, I will not put myself in a position where I can be held responsible for the outcome of someone else's poor choices.

My family passed an accident tonight on the way home from my son's footy presentation...ambulance, police cars blocking the scene - my guess would be that the motorbike rider was in bad shape. Did we stop? Hell no! The casualty had the best chance they had with the assistance on-scene and it wasn't my job to interfere.

A comment that has stuck with me from my early days in rescue that I'm happy to share "we didn't put them there - so let's not risk more lives getting them outta there!"

It may sound selfish but if people knew the psychological damage that can be done from untrained (and trained) persons witnessing a serious accident, they would choose not to get involved. Rescuing involves no heroics - just a thick skin and supporting family/friends.

Sailhack is in Vic', Mark is in W.A.

Fair chance that there are minor differences in law between the two states [and in the interpretation of those laws]

stephen

Is it ok to post a CPR refresher here?

Previous posters are correct, yiu need not provide assistance but in the case of cpr once started you should only stop if someone else takes over or a medical professional says stop or you are physically unable to continue (exhaustion, danger etc.)

Re CPR as good as it looks in the previous clip in reality it may be less appealing due to vomit etc. I did my Red Cross refresher recently and the current training says mouth to mouth only if comfortable, otherwise chest compressions only are fine. They didn't even say mouth to mouth was "better" as some studies say compressions are almost as good, and it takes away the thinking about where the other mouth has been.

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional, just a mug punter...

^^^ Galah - good chest compressions will keep pumping the heart, therefore maintaining vital blood flow to the brain. Breaths simply detract from the time needed to keep blood pumping and although air in lungs is important - a good CPR technique (depending on the injury) will provide blood flow and vacuum some fresh air (not second-hand air) into the lungs. Obviously 2 people can keep this going much longer & provide breaths as well, but sometimes we're not that fortunate. A good compression technique should be exhausting for the person providing it and will be either break some ribs...or almost! This is proven to be the best chance for the patient/casualty to survive.

We're very fortunate that Aus has one of the highest survival rates due to the knowledge of CPR and first-aid qualified members of the public. Any awareness of this and encouragement of people to do a first-aid course can only be good IMO.

I found this podcast on the subjuect interesting....

www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/262588-bitter-end