Everybody loves dogs and wants to protect them from any potential harm, never mind how slight the risk is and even if it isn't 100% confirmed that is where the risk is coming from.

www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-23/voluntary-recall-leptospirosis-vaccine-dogs-adverse-reactions/103141524

The recall ...... comes after at least eight incidents where "adverse reactions" were seen in dogs vaccinated with Treidlia Auslepto, with symptoms coming on within five to six hours of the dose being given.

"With these reports of these illnesses after the vaccine, they're just being cautious," he said.

He said he was glad vets and pet owners had been made aware of potential risks and said it would be worthwhile to take some time to look into the cause of the adverse reactions before administering any further vaccines.


So come on dog lovers, just make sure you weigh up the risk and benefit of giving your dog the jab before you do it.

Great... so now Fluffy is going antivax too?

Can't we leave this discussion for a few more months?

The issue with dogs and vaccines is that they do not dose them by weight.
A chihuahua will get the same amount of poison as a great dane.
This gives small breads a higher chance of health issues and reactions/death.
I have heard that it is best for dogs to eat raw organ meat. Apparently their teeth won't rot on raw meat and they will apparently have alot less health issues, the problem is if they are brought up on cooked meat or dog food garbage then they might be too fussy to start eating raw organs.

I know this is USA but I would say Australia would be similar.
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snoidberg said..
I know this is USA but I would say Australia would be similar.

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Why would you say Australia would be similar?

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snoidberg said..

I have heard that it is best for dogs to eat raw organ meat. Apparently their teeth won't rot on raw meat and they will apparently have alot less health issues, the problem is if they are brought up on cooked meat or dog food garbage then they might be too fussy to start eating raw organs.

So, 'you have heard' this, and are happy to spread the new info around? Are there any facts to go with it or is this how you create a fact?

Humans also ate raw meat, or at least the animals that came before humans. Then we discovered fire can improve food for eating, including killing parasites and making more of the nutrients available. There is the suggestion that fire and food was the key to humans evolving bigger and better brains as raw food just cannot provide sufficient nutrients to support such a large brain.

But that is 'mainstream thinking' so clearly not interesting enough for you.

Do you use a washing machine or beat your clothes against rocks in the river?

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D3 said..

snoidberg said..
I know this is USA but I would say Australia would be similar.

?si=QMGnqX2AsRnLfnA0

Why would you say Australia would be similar?

I'm just speculating because because Australia sells out to big pharma easily, look at the last few years.

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FormulaNova said..

snoidberg said..

I have heard that it is best for dogs to eat raw organ meat. Apparently their teeth won't rot on raw meat and they will apparently have alot less health issues, the problem is if they are brought up on cooked meat or dog food garbage then they might be too fussy to start eating raw organs.

So, 'you have heard' this, and are happy to spread the new info around? Are there any facts to go with it or is this how you create a fact?

Humans also ate raw meat, or at least the animals that came before humans. Then we discovered fire can improve food for eating, including killing parasites and making more of the nutrients available. There is the suggestion that fire and food was the key to humans evolving bigger and better brains as raw food just cannot provide sufficient nutrients to support such a large brain.

But that is 'mainstream thinking' so clearly not interesting enough for you.

Do you use a washing machine or beat your clothes against rocks in the river?

I'm just saying what I have heard. I did do some research but I am not an expert in this area and it doesn't matter much for me because my dogs are to fussy to eat raw organ meat anyway, so I will try to introduce raw organ meat to the next unvaccinated puppy I get. If you look into a wolf's diet and health in the wild the alpha will eat the raw organs of the kill and the others get what's left over.
Organs are much higher nutrient dense and being raw their digestive system has evolved to break raw meat and even bones down.
Also raw meat hasn't sustained cellular damage from heat, so it takes their body less energy to convert it to into their own cells/energy.
You can keep buying your dog biscuits or canned dog food if you want but there's no regulation as to what goes in to it. Intestine with feces anything, all the garbage off cuts, highly processed with chemicals, wheat dried with glyphosate, byproducts and seed oils to make your pets inflamed and obese.
I was hoping someone on Seabreeze that actually feeds their dogs raw organ meat would be able to let me know how they go but all I get is the same dribble from the same Seabreeze pharma pushing bots.

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snoidberg said..
The issue with dogs and vaccines is that they do not dose them by weight.
A chihuahua will get the same amount of poison as a great dane.
This gives small breads a higher chance of health issues and reactions/death.
I have heard that it is best for dogs to eat raw organ meat. Apparently their teeth won't rot on raw meat and they will apparently have alot less health issues, the problem is if they are brought up on cooked meat or dog food garbage then they might be too fussy to start eating raw organs.

Pretty sure we were dosed the same

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snoidberg said..

I'm just saying what I have heard. I did do some research but I am not an expert in this area and it doesn't matter much for me because my dogs are to fussy to eat raw organ meat anyway, so I will try to introduce raw organ meat to the next unvaccinated puppy I get. If you look into a wolf's diet and health in the wild the alpha will eat the raw organs of the kill and the others get what's left over.
Organs are much higher nutrient dense and being raw their digestive system has evolved to break raw meat and even bones down.
Also raw meat hasn't sustained cellular damage from heat, so it takes their body less energy to convert it to into their own cells/energy.
You can keep buying your dog biscuits or canned dog food if you want but there's no regulation as to what goes in to it. Intestine with feces anything, all the garbage off cuts, highly processed with chemicals, wheat dried with glyphosate, byproducts and seed oils to make your pets inflamed and obese.
I was hoping someone on Seabreeze that actually feeds their dogs raw organ meat would be able to let me know how they go but all I get is the same dribble from the same Seabreeze pharma pushing bots.

It doesn't take less energy to convert a cell from an animal to a cell for a different animal. It probably takes more as it gets broken down first and cooking assists with that breaking down. Cells don't convert from one being to another, they get broken down into their constituent parts.

I read this book on the improvements that cooking creates for us:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catching_Fire:_How_Cooking_Made_Us_Human

I am sure a wolf will eat the high value bits first, but I suspect that if you give them the option of cooked meat they will probably eat that first. I think you and most dog owners will agree that dogs will prefer cooked meat because it tastes better to them, the same as to us.

I worked with a woman that kept on going on about 'BARF' diets for dogs, and she was a space cadet. She was arguing that it was natural, but couldn't tell me the expected lifespan of a dog in the wild eating raw food. I would guess that the lifespan in the wild is a lot less than in captivity.

Even plants that are cooked have more nutrients available than the raw version. The only argument I agree with is when people say that raw food can help you lose weight... which makes sense when you think about it ;-)

wejkfharew;lghk;fgjkl wekfhidfjkhgdfgdhjfag;ehjr g wef'dfhjgkldhfgdfhksgdsajk; gerivjefionsdf vaccine safe effective safe formula denial lkhfgadsghdfsgadfhjsgkdhsafdskfjdsf lkdls dsfds fads its a wind sports forum not a faceless debate site asfklshgsadhfgaskghsakghs


Here we go again Laurie, just think of the advertising money!

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ok said..
wejkfharew;lghk;fgjkl wekfhidfjkhgdfgdhjfag;ehjr g wef'dfhjgkldhfgdfhksgdsajk; gerivjefionsdf vaccine safe effective safe formula denial lkhfgadsghdfsgadfhjsgkdhsafdskfjdsf lkdls dsfds fads its a wind sports forum not a faceless debate site asfklshgsadhfgaskghsakghs


Here we go again Laurie, just think of the advertising money!

LOL, that comment is up there with your best ever work on this site. Coming a close second to your best post: 'OK is not OK'. Well done!

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ok said..
wejkfharew;lghk;fgjkl wekfhidfjkhgdfgdhjfag;ehjr g wef'dfhjgkldhfgdfhksgdsajk; gerivjefionsdf vaccine safe effective safe formula denial lkhfgadsghdfsgadfhjsgkdhsafdskfjdsf lkdls dsfds fads its a wind sports forum not a faceless debate site asfklshgsadhfgaskghsakghs


Here we go again Laurie, just think of the advertising money!

Well, I guess the autoimmune condition seems to have affected your comprehension skills. I didn't mention anything about vaccines did I? Or was it in secret code somewhere?

I suspect you see my name now and just want to argue,

Or do I have it all wrong and big pharma are now targeting dogs now with big bags of Purina chow, laced with mRNA? I must have bought the wrong stuff Tastes alright though

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snoidberg said..
I have heard that it is best for dogs to eat raw organ meat. Apparently their teeth won't rot on raw meat and they will apparently have alot less health issues, the problem is if they are brought up on cooked meat or dog food garbage then they might be too fussy to start eating raw organs.

This reminds me of 'The Liver King'. Anybody that has spent any decent amount of time in the gym will know that he has used steroids, but he claimed that his size/bulk was the result of eating lots of raw liver. Sure it is mate...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_King

The important part of the link is where it says:

"Despite repeatedly denying having ever used anabolic steroids to attain his physique, it was revealed in late 2022 that he regularly used multiple drugs, including synthetic IGF1 and testosterone, and spent $11,000 on pharmaceuticals a month.[10] After emails showing his use of steroids and hormones came to light, Johnson made a video in which he admitted to taking around 120 mg of testosterone per week and apologized for misleading his viewers about his "pharmacological intervention", while also adding that there is "a time and place" for such interventions to be made"

Get your dog off the 'roids!

Ya got me

" raw meat hasn't sustained cellular damage from heat, so it takes their body less energy to convert it to into their own cells/energy"

Yeah....No. That's not how digestion works at all. The food we and animals consume needs to be broken down to smallest components so that we can utilize them.

If we're digesting meat, we aren't able to absorb proteins directly and add them to our own muscle mass. They are broken down to their constituent Amino acid. Our bodies are then able to use those Amino acids to build the specific proteins our bodies need.

This process is actually aided by various processes including cooking to denature the proteins.

Same breed, same age, but one of these dogs eats Royal Canin (as the vet directed), has been vaccinated, and neutered... the other has never consumed commercial pet food, follows a predominantly raw diet or consumes whatever fish I am eating, thinks all vets can go f*** themselves, used to go for 25km runs (now he likes to be driven around by his mother), has not been vaccinated, holds anti-vax beliefs, exhibits male pride, and denies climate change.

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D3 said..
" raw meat hasn't sustained cellular damage from heat, so it takes their body less energy to convert it to into their own cells/energy"

Yeah....No. That's not how digestion works at all. The food we and animals consume needs to be broken down to smallest components so that we can utilize them.

If we're digesting meat, we aren't able to absorb proteins directly and add them to our own muscle mass. They are broken down to their constituent Amino acid. Our bodies are then able to use those Amino acids to build the specific proteins our bodies need.

This process is actually aided by various processes including cooking to denature the proteins.

Oh good, someone who understands digestion. Now I'm going to write some incorrect facts about peristalsis because I don't really know much about it, but I do know the easiest way to get information is to write something false on the web and wait to be corrected.

My old mate, 40kg of the closest thing you could legally have to a wolf in AUS. Smart, powerful and fast. Lived for 18yrs on a diet of 'eat everything and answer questions later.' Also never lost a tool on site.

You got 18 years out of a big dog? That's doing pretty good.

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psychojoe said..

D3 said..
" raw meat hasn't sustained cellular damage from heat, so it takes their body less energy to convert it to into their own cells/energy"

Yeah....No. That's not how digestion works at all. The food we and animals consume needs to be broken down to smallest components so that we can utilize them.

If we're digesting meat, we aren't able to absorb proteins directly and add them to our own muscle mass. They are broken down to their constituent Amino acid. Our bodies are then able to use those Amino acids to build the specific proteins our bodies need.

This process is actually aided by various processes including cooking to denature the proteins.

Oh good, someone who understands digestion. Now I'm going to write some incorrect facts about peristalsis because I don't really know much about it, but I do know the easiest way to get information is to write something false on the web and wait to be corrected.

Fire away, but I can't find any memes that explain it without progressing to toilet humour.

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FormulaNova said..
You got 18 years out of a big dog? That's doing pretty good.

Followed the breeders instructions, particularly first 3-4yrs with exercise. Thought he was done around 12-13yrs of age, clamped down on his diet and put pennywort into the meals. Arthritis+pain went away and was pretty happy in his old age.

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D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..
" raw meat hasn't sustained cellular damage from heat, so it takes their body less energy to convert it to into their own cells/energy"

Yeah....No. That's not how digestion works at all. The food we and animals consume needs to be broken down to smallest components so that we can utilize them.

If we're digesting meat, we aren't able to absorb proteins directly and add them to our own muscle mass. They are broken down to their constituent Amino acid. Our bodies are then able to use those Amino acids to build the specific proteins our bodies need.

This process is actually aided by various processes including cooking to denature the proteins.

Oh good, someone who understands digestion. Now I'm going to write some incorrect facts about peristalsis because I don't really know much about it, but I do know the easiest way to get information is to write something false on the web and wait to be corrected.

Fire away, but I can't find any memes that explain it without progressing to toilet humour.

Hm, weak golf clap for that, more obvious than funny. So in Ayurvedic medicine fruit consumption is isolated from other foods. Could one then further extrapolate that during periods of rapid growth children finish their meals and ask for more, lazy parents reward this with well deserved sweet treats, the speed of digesting the sweets outpaces the meal, the kid's brain sends a stomach ache to signal the issue, even though they're eating foods that are familiar to them, but because they're having a growth spurt it's 'diagnosed' as "growing pains". And if it's the case that sugars don't pair well with protein for digestion, is it also true for fats, or fibre, and in what quantities?
And if pain is not a symptom of aging then surely 'growing pains' is a dumb explanation for anything.

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psychojoe said..

D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..
" raw meat hasn't sustained cellular damage from heat, so it takes their body less energy to convert it to into their own cells/energy"

Yeah....No. That's not how digestion works at all. The food we and animals consume needs to be broken down to smallest components so that we can utilize them.

If we're digesting meat, we aren't able to absorb proteins directly and add them to our own muscle mass. They are broken down to their constituent Amino acid. Our bodies are then able to use those Amino acids to build the specific proteins our bodies need.

This process is actually aided by various processes including cooking to denature the proteins.

Oh good, someone who understands digestion. Now I'm going to write some incorrect facts about peristalsis because I don't really know much about it, but I do know the easiest way to get information is to write something false on the web and wait to be corrected.

Fire away, but I can't find any memes that explain it without progressing to toilet humour.

Hm, weak golf clap for that, more obvious than funny. So in Ayurvedic medicine fruit consumption is isolated from other foods. Could one then further extrapolate that during periods of rapid growth children finish their meals and ask for more, lazy parents reward this with well deserved sweet treats, the speed of digesting the sweets outpaces the meal, the kid's brain sends a stomach ache to signal the issue, even though they're eating foods that are familiar to them, but because they're having a growth spurt it's 'diagnosed' as "growing pains". And if it's the case that sugars don't pair well with protein for digestion, is it also true for fats, or fibre, and in what quantities?
And if pain is not a symptom of aging then surely 'growing pains' is a dumb explanation for anything.

Your welcome to extrapolate as much as you want, but usually you need some data points to extrapolate from.

Use a medical definition of growing pain. I'm not really familiar with it, but I was under the impression it is a rather vague term relating to limb pain, not abdominal pain.


In your scenario, why wouldn't children who are experiencing "normal" growth rate also suffer similar symptoms?