How far will you go to build Australian economic independence of China.? It is now evident we are over dependent on them as a trading partner.
This site has any number of discussions regarding the merits of locally made equipment vs imported. (Yep I realise lots of quality gear come from Cobra factory/ Sunova etc in Thailand )
just wondering what, if anything, you are willing to pay more for ...boards, groceries, clothes? Or nothing just want most for your dollars?
is rebuilding our manufacturing capacity possible?

There's no way anyone can answer that question honestly Pete. Rational people make decisions based on the margin and most people will generally not include the costs that they can't see when they make that decision based purely on price. Can the average Aussie punter be relied upon to make a purchase decision that is in the national interest? The answer is no, there must be government intervention of some sort.

China needs iron ore, coal in massive amounts.
They also need us as customers for their **** products--just about everything made on earth.
We are the nearest, cheapest mines on earth for these raw materials.
They need us far more than we need them.
They don't buy our stuff because they love us, but because we are the CHEAPEST
Just the same as we buy their crap, CHEAPEST.

I don't kid myself that China needs us more than we need them, they'd function just fine without us. But yeah, whilst ever we sell our resources cheaply and do not produce ourselves we will remain vulnerable.

I think there's an increase in manufacturing for the small scale manufacturers because of cheap machines from China .
CNC ,machines, plasma ,water ,laser cutter 3D printers etc etc have become affordable even getting custom made machines from China is now affordable for small manufacturers & as small businesses is our biggest employer we will see our manufacturing grow faster than awaited investment of big business.
Before the cost of these machines was so much that only big business could afford the investment to start up .

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Paddles B'mere said..
I don't kid myself that China needs us more than we need them, they'd function just fine without us. But yeah, whilst ever we sell our resources cheaply and do not produce ourselves we will remain vulnerable.

I disagree and I wish everyone would wake up to it.

We export 87billion and import 45 so at first glance it looks like we need them more.

But when you look closer you realise they are importing things they can't produce themselves. Iron ore, coal, gas and agricultural products to name just a few. Other countries can't fill the gap if they stop taking our exports.

Most things China produces could be made by us or lots of other countries (admittedly at a slightly higher price) if they had to.

So in reality we probably have the upper hand in the relationship.

If you want to know how valuable our resources are to China, take a look at how much they are paying for them.

interesting to hear the chinese's response.think twice about sending their kids to our unit,but where else do they send them , stop buying beef from chinese owned cattle stations in australia,or buying minerals from chinese's owned mines

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stoff said..
So in reality we probably have the upper hand in the relationship.

14,000 million people vs 25 million people.
14 trillion GDP vs 1.4 trillion GDP (USD).
Emerging superpower vs NZ straight-laced older sibling.

Upper hand???

I think it's always worth a visit to China to see what things are like over there. It's mind blowing...

So based on your figures we have a GDP of $56000 per person vs China at $1000. I'd call that an upper hand.

Their massive population is their Achilles heal and is also the reason they are so dangerous. China simply doesn't have the natural resources to get that number anywhere near ours so they want to dominate manufacturing to do it. Sure they can buy up resource projects around the world but I think countries are starting to wise up to that!

Improving living standards (and feeding) that many people means that they are desperate for our resources which gives us, and other resource rich countries the upper hand.

How happy do you think those 14,000 million people are going to be if their leaders have a dummy spit and stop importing the food they eat and the resources they use for work?

1400 not 14 000 million in China.

Yep 1.4 billion, still a massive number and the reason we don't need to bow down to China. They have to buy our resources for their very survival.

No they don't stoff ........................... my dad always told me that it's only a fool that thinks he's indispensable

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petermac33 said..
1400 not 14 000 million in China.

Oops... and of course...

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stoff said..
Yep 1.4 billion, still a massive number and the reason we don't need to bow down to China. They have to buy our resources for their very survival.

There's a big difference between bowing down and having an upper hand...

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Paddles B'mere said..
No they don't stoff ........................... my dad always told me that it's only a fool that thinks he's indispensable

Oops, I thought we were having a discussion, my bad...

I've read before that China have a fair few natural resources (as in minerals) but prefer to save them for later by leaving them in the ground and buying ours seeing as they are so cheap.

Sorry stoff, you may have misinterpreted, it was in no way a personal comment towards yourself. I wasn't saying you were a fool, I was saying that Australian society (via our government) should never think that we are so important to the Chinese that they will not shop elsewhere. Their growing "middle class" demands the quality goods that we can provide, but this demand can be turned off like a tap given the nature of their political system.

That being said, we (via government) should take steps to "stimulate" Australian manufacturing to limit our dependency on a Chinese supply chain. For example we have coal and iron ore here; the cost of energy is becoming cheaper and hopefully the cost of labour (and housing) will reduce; is now a fantastic opportunity to revive domestic steel production? Should we have a local pharmaceutical industry? The list goes on.

It's all very well and good having a discussion about what and what not we should be doing about China but at the end of the day we will have the same level of influence over what action is taken as the people who had the foresight to protest against globalization decades ago.

Not buying Chinese products on an individual level is pretty much the only effective action you can take.

Good luck with it!

Spot on japie ................... we have to own the problem and buy the solution

The arrogance of the Chinese State is breathtaking, what they don't understand is you can't crap on your trading partners with no consequences. If the business coopoeration is reduced it will not affect them much, one small country like Australia is no more a problem than is than chewing gum on your shoe, in their own words.

Many big players in business have displayed that arrogance in the past and they no longer exist. One day they wake up and realise that they crapped on to many.

Let them go I say, we will find more markets to sell to and better vendors to buy from either here or abroad. Probably better sooner rather than later anyway. No one is indespensible as paddles already mentioned.

Isn't that "The Golden Rule" though cammd and to some extent buys a certain level of arrogance whether we like it or not ?

.......................... he who has the gold makes the rules

Depends what you see as the "gold", their cash or our resources. That's where our opinions differ.

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pete53 said..
How far will you go to build Australian economic independence of China.? It is now evident we are over dependent on them as a trading partner.
This site has any number of discussions regarding the merits of locally made equipment vs imported. (Yep I realise lots of quality gear come from Cobra factory/ Sunova etc in Thailand )
just wondering what, if anything, you are willing to pay more for ...boards, groceries, clothes? Or nothing just want most for your dollars?
is rebuilding our manufacturing capacity possible?

It is obvious that Australians are not prepared to spend additional money, that's the reason we are in this situation.
It started 50 years ago & people are still wanting more & more junk & as cheap as possible.
Believe it or not Chinese are the same, 20 years ago no cars just bikes in China now flash cars everywhere.

Example:
Aussie brand windsurfing boom - AUD $120 cost to manufacture - last for years & years, in fact some are still around after 20 yrs.
Chinese brand - US $30 to manufacture - throw away every 6 - 12 months.
Both Retailed for the same price but marketing & margins etc pushed the Chinese product.

The Aussie brand closed down, owner now uses Chinese Boom.