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Craig66 said..
Back in the day when I was a kid I was good with an axe chopping / splitting fire wood, it was free exercise and free heating. We next to never went to fancy restaurants, Pizza Hut was a treat.
No coffee machine on the bench, no such thing as a take away coffee.
No brand name joggers, sunnies, caps etc, hell most of my cloths were either sewn by mum or hand me downs. Bloody great as I only had 2 older sisters

Back then people saved / waited and paid cash for stuff.
Now it's just get it now and put on credit.

I wholeheartedly agree with you there mate. People my age (20) aren't money wise. They will just blow all their money on designer clothing ( Tn's,97s, Gucci, Tommy Hilfiger), computer games and alcohol.

When I was 10 I started working for my dad on a Prawn Trawler. My dad said things how he saw it. If I wasn't doing something properly like packing the nets away properly. Sewing them up wrong when he knew I knew how to. He would be P!ssed off big time. I used to think to myself "Jesus Christ Dad we will using the nets in 10 hours anyway".

When i I got my own commercial boat at 16. My mates ( who where crew on the boat) used to do things wrong and half arseing everything. This p!ssed me off. I now appreciate that my father made me do things properly. I own my own house in Rodds Bay, until recently I had a commercial line fishing boat. I'm not saying this to brag, but say how I think money can be more efficiently used. Just my opinion
Regards,
Mick

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Shanty said..

Craig66 said..
Back in the day when I was a kid I was good with an axe chopping / splitting fire wood, it was free exercise and free heating. We next to never went to fancy restaurants, Pizza Hut was a treat.
No coffee machine on the bench, no such thing as a take away coffee.
No brand name joggers, sunnies, caps etc, hell most of my cloths were either sewn by mum or hand me downs. Bloody great as I only had 2 older sisters

Back then people saved / waited and paid cash for stuff.
Now it's just get it now and put on credit.

I wholeheartedly agree with you there mate. People my age (20) aren't money wise. They will just blow all their money on designer clothing ( Tn's,97s, Gucci, Tommy Hilfiger), computer games and alcohol.

When I was 10 I started working for my dad on a Prawn Trawler. My dad said things how he saw it. If I wasn't doing something properly like packing the nets away properly. Sewing them up wrong when he knew I knew how to. He would be P!ssed off big time. I used to think to myself "Jesus Christ Dad we will using the nets in 10 hours anyway".

When i I got my own commercial boat at 16. My mates ( who where crew on the boat) used to do things wrong and half arseing everything. This p!ssed me off. I now appreciate that my father made me do things properly. I own my own house in Rodds Bay, until recently I had a commercial line fishing boat. I'm not saying this to brag, but say how I think money can be more efficiently used. Just my opinion
Regards,
Mick

I bet your dad told you your grading was off a million times

Australia is run be people who think we live in an economy instead of country.

Everything is geared to people holding onto wealth instead of understanding what makes a nation really tick.

The farcical debate about negative gearing and franking credits is a case in point.

The obsession with property ownership another example.

Destroying our biodiversity and natural resources at an unprecedented rate. In fact we're leading the world for species extinction.

Number one greenhouse gas polluter in the world when you count exports.

Highest greenhouse polluter per capita.

Obsessed with living in cities.

Meanness and selfishness made into a national preoccupation.

That said, it's never too late to change course. I suspect environmental and or economic calamity will be the only thing that forces change.

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Adriano said..
Australia is run be people who think we live in an economy instead of country.

Everything is geared to people holding onto wealth instead of understanding what makes a nation really tick.

The farcical debate about negative gearing and franking credits is a case in point.

The obsession with property ownership another example.

Destroying our biodiversity and natural resources at an unprecedented rate. In fact we're leading the world for species extinction.

Number one greenhouse gas polluter in the world when you count exports.

Meanness and selfishness made into a national preoccupation.

That said, it's never too late to change course.

Yes, they want us to build personal wealth.

They want us to pay more tax.

They need us to be self funded in retirement

Because "they" the government can not / don't want to / don't have the money to support the ageing community.

Also a society in debt is stable and predictable, slaves to their own finances, or lack of.

Too true. The "wealth" is a mirage for most though because of that debt, underemployment, stagnant wages and inflated property values.

Even those fortunate enough to have some true luxuries, like a weekender generally aren't happy without a facsimile of their city pad. Four toilets and five bedrooms. FFS build a weekender, not a penis enlargement.

I was lucky enough to grow up with a weekender built by my grandad. Fibro and hardwood. Tiny. Gorgeous. Best part was the BBQ. That was huge and made from the local bush rock. I even helped him build an extension when I was 11.

Now you'd get arrested by some greenie for lifting a single rock.

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Adriano said..
Too true. The "wealth" is a mirage for most though because of that debt, underemployment, stagnant wages and inflated property values.

Even those fortunate enough to have some true luxuries, like a weekender generally aren't happy without a facsimile of their city pad. Four toilets and five bedrooms. FFS build a weekender, not a penis enlargement.

I was lucky enough to grow up with a weekender built by my grandad. Fibro and hardwood. Tiny. Gorgeous. Best part was the BBQ. That was huge and made from the local bush rock. I even helped him build an extension when I was 11.

Now you'd get arrested by some greenie for lifting a single rock.

Too true. Mooloolaba's prawn trawlers. You used to be able to do any repairs yourself. If you broke or wanted to experiment with new boards you could Make new ones. I heard talking to some of the Old diggers who still trawl, one guy was saying he wanted to build new Arms for holding the gear out because the old ones where fu?ked. So he fits them in three months time he needs to have his boat inspected to put it back in Survey ( yearly inspection). Nailed for not having and "Authorised" Naval architect sign the arms as safe. He also didn't have a build certificate to say to arms where built to Australian standard. He said "Trawling is becoming a less and less profitable business. We are not allowed to do things we can do. 30 years ago fishermen would go to the supply shop and buy a coil of rope. No one asked what it was worth because your business needed it to be profitable. Now you go to the supply shop. All you see is people asking What's this cool of rope worth? Can a pay for half and pay you back later? I see the writing on the wall for this industry". Sad thing to hear. The government destroyed the Torris Strait industry. Plus your always be kneecapped by the "workplace health and safety" monster. Very sad indeed.
Regards,
Mick

If you focus on what we do have in Australia, the actual reality of where we live, its pretty bloody good. The opportunities available to us, the likelihood we won't be invaded by a foreign country tomorrow, the government support for all residenents if your life goes really bad, the options available for government support in domestic violence circumstances to starting a new business. This list is almost endless........

If you think we live in anything less than a supportive environment, you have a narrow view of they way the majority of the humans on earth live. Your likely whinging like a spoilt child who just wants more no matter what he/she gets.

The majority of legislation in our country is directed towards positive outcomes, considering the broader circumstances in making new rules or regulations on particular situations.

I'm not saying life is easy, but where on earth is life really easy, like genuinely easy. A place where there's little challenge to live the way you want?

Keep your victim mentality if you want, will give yourself something to moan about to your mates who think the same way, and you may feel good for doing so.

If any of the "problems of Australia" raised in above posts really bother you, you need a reality check.

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Kite285 said..
If you focus on what we do have in Australia, the actual reality of where we live, its pretty bloody good. The opportunities available to us, the likelihood we won't be invaded by a foreign country tomorrow, the government support for all residenents if your life goes really bad, the options available for government support in domestic violence circumstances to starting a new business. This list is almost endless........

If you think we live in anything less than a supportive environment, you have a narrow view of they way the majority of the humans on earth live. Your likely whinging like a spoilt child who just wants more no matter what he/she gets.

The majority of legislation in our country is directed towards positive outcomes, considering the broader circumstances in making new rules or regulations on particular situations.

Keep your victim mentality if you want, will give yourself something to moan about to your mates who think the same way, and you may feel good for doing so.

If any of the "problems of Australia" raised in above posts really bother you, you need a reality check.

You are right mate. Australia is the fantastic. It is the people who make unnecessary laws all in the name of having more control. Our services as you mentioned are great. I'm just complaining about laws and regulations that don't make sense. The government are Destroying the fishing industry. This effects people's lives, their investments. And for what? Destroying the industry does nothing for the economy. If anything export of fresh seafood would boost the economy big time. Rock lobsters, king prawn, banana prawn, endeavour prawn, reef fish, Tuna, swordfish, mud crab the list is endless of Premium quality Australian seafood that is not be harvested. Australia has the one of the largest EEZ on the planet yet our harvest is very, very little. This is good, this means we have a sustainable industry. But things like the following situation.

A guy I know had just left Bundaberg to move his boat up to Mackay for the prawn season up there. He went around the Closed scollop zone ( 10-13 mile detour so about and 1 and half hour).
The shaft seal let go and had to turn around. The government caught him steaming at 8 knots over the scallop zone ( from his VMS) to get back to Bundaberg because the boat was sinking. Police where waiting for him at the Dock. Fined big time for steaming through the zone. I will let you know it is impossible to trawl at 8.8 knots like he was at the time. But because he had nets and gear on the boat and went through the zone.

What does this have to do with providing a living for Australians? These are first world problems but we as citizens should be able to have a say in what goes on. Just my opinion.
Regards,
Mick

Yep, fair call Mick. We're definately highly regulated here, I'm in business of my own and know what it's like with multiple authorities regulating my activities. It's frustrating...... makes me want to do something else sometimes because of the bull****.

In regards to the subject of the post, I stand by what I say. Operating business in third world countries is a bloody nightmare compared to here. Corruption issues in governing departments, corrupt police, black markets, unliiscenced and unregulated operaters, poachers..... it happens here too but not to the same degree. It's tough here too, not trying to play that down.

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Kite285 said..
Yep, fair call Mick. We're definately highly regulated here, I'm in business of my own and know what it's like with multiple authorities regulating my activities. It's frustrating...... makes me want to do something else sometimes because of the bull****.

In regards to the subject of the post, I stand by what I say. Operating business in third world countries is a bloody nightmare compared to here. Corruption issues in governing departments, corrupt police, black markets, unliiscenced and unregulated operaters, poachers..... it happens here too but not to the same degree. It's tough here too, not trying to play that down.

In general Australia's a pretty bloody good place to live though.

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Imax1 said..

Craig66 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
If young people saved and lived like our parents , they too could afford a house .
Thats one old car to share , no two big mobile plans , endless nets , three big TV s . Have sheets on the windows for years , not fully furnished .
That is what is needed to do the house thing .
Young people don't like the sound of that .

I used to think something like that too, but what is toughing it out really cost these days?

Sure, you could hang sheets on the windows, but most houses come with something already and even cheap curtains are available. I think our parents might have done what they did because there was no cheap alternative like their is now.

Even flat screen TVs are cheap. Sure, you may not need 3, but what is the difference in costs?

One TV is worth $400, three worth $1200. Make that $2000 and $6000 if they are better TVs, but does that really change the equation much when houses are $500K?


In this case, I am not even talking about young people. Normal people seem to be doing it tough and the mortgage costs seem to be a big part of it, but then again, maybe people have gotten into a pattern of spending that they don't need?

Yes but those $ 6,000 of good TVs are probably on loaned money , so it actually costs over $ 12,000 instead of saving $ 400 for a average TV . People throw out perfectly working smaller TVs.
Thats already one fiftieth of the cost of the house , and that's just big TV cost .
Two average cars , ( 45,000 for both ) , on loan will end up costing well over $ 100,000 , that's one fifth of the cost of a house . Or you could save and buy a perfectly good car for $ 10 ,000.
Do that with all the stuff you want but don't really have to have and it makes a huge difference.
If you can do this , a house is totally doable.

I don't actually know any people in the 'young and trying to buy a house' demographic, but it would be interesting to hear what they are doing. Whether they are wasting money on luxuries, or whether its actually tough.

There are random stories on news.com.au or smh that talk about people that save up to get a deposit, but invariably they helped by their parents, and/or living at home. Sometimes the maths doesn't even seem to work out. I know what it cost me to live without wasting money, and these people are doing much better than that.

When I went to buy a house in 2000/2001, I think they were affordable. Now they are crazy and in my opinion overvalued. Interest rates are low now, but you can't count on that for long.

I think I probably agree on the car thing too. I buy cheap cars, but I know enough about cars to keep costs down and still have something reliable. I think other people go for new cars as they have no ability to pick a good one or maintain it, or maybe they are trying to buy a decent car at the same time?

Unfortunately the only people I know that buy new cars are well paid people in their 50s that are claiming them as work expenses.

Re interest rates.
Home loan bank interest back in my day were......
wait for it .....

17.75%

kids have it so so much easier now

You must be my age , I did 17.5% .
We had 30% deposit and borrowed 270 grand .
It was in a cheap area , we had sheet curtains , no floor coverings on a slab . ( ok , bedrooms had carpet ) , we had old recycled carpet rugs . Five years later i self cork floored the rest .
One TV. No nets or mob phones . ( I still use a $90 flip phone , ( delivered ) , on a $27 plan , endlless calls and txts ).
I survived .
It wasn't so bad , I could still raise kids , ride a trail bike , and piss a little against the wall.

Borrowed 270K & had 30% deposit so about 385K all up. The Interest rates were about 17% in 1989/90ish. As a guide the Median house price in Sydney in 1990 was $194kish which was the highest of any Capital City in Australia but you bought in a cheap area???

Select to expand quote

Adriano said..
Australia is run be people who think we live in an economy instead of country.

Everything is geared to people holding onto wealth instead of understanding what makes a nation really tick.

The farcical debate about negative gearing and franking credits is a case in point.

The obsession with property ownership another example.

Destroying our biodiversity and natural resources at an unprecedented rate. In fact we're leading the world for species extinction.

Number one greenhouse gas polluter in the world when you count exports.

Highest greenhouse polluter per capita.

Obsessed with living in cities.

Meanness and selfishness made into a national preoccupation.

That said, it's never too late to change course. I suspect environmental and or economic calamity will be the only thing that forces change.

Couldn't of put it better , I've lived in 7 different countries but Australians seem to be hell bent on personal gains, basically the tightest cu#ts I've ever come across by a long way
This mateship bollocks, is just a saying, anyone here's ya mate if theirs financial gain, I find it very false compared to other country's ,

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cauncy said..

Couldn't of put it better , I've lived in 7 different countries but Australians seem to be hell bent on personal gains, basically the tightest cu#ts I've ever come across by a long way
This mateship bollocks, is just a saying, anyone here's ya mate if theirs financial gain, I find it very false compared to other country's ,

I think 'mateship' still exists, but it has definitely been overtaken by 'get-ahead' type mentality. There are still people out there that treat others decently, but there are others that will justify anything based on money. It seems to be the last two decades have had more of the 'greed is good mentality' but without the catchphrase.

Doing the right thing seems to have been ignored by a lot of people in favor of 'what would my lawyer say I have to do' and 'what can I get away with'.

I have worked with a lot of people over the last 20 years and there are plenty out there that will sacrifice you for their own benefit, but there are plenty more that will help you out, its just the former that stand out more.

I worked at a place a little while ago where business stresses have changed the place from being a great place to work 15 years ago to become a crap place to work now. The reason is that they started making people redundant, so it has everyone on their toes two times a year. The sad thing is that its an opportunity for management to defend themselves every six months and chop people, but in the intervening periods they don't actually do much, probably because they know that the next six months is going to be the same. This has resulted in a bit of a cut-throat mentality and a lot of the good people that can stand on their own have voluntarily left, leaving a concentration of people you wouldn't trust.

Similarly, I worked for a company about 5 years ago who have a reputation in the business of not paying other suppliers. I didn't know this when working for the company but while working there you could see that they didn't value good qualities and the only personalities that survived were the arseholes.

You might be seeing a lot of these type as they will generally be the type that make themselves known through their actions. Take heart though as there are still good people around, its just that they don't advertise themselves.

People say we did without but the fact is is that you never had them. Saying no flash phone, or internet are luxuarys well I would like to see you get by without them. Fact is if I want to watch the footy I have to have the internet so I can view Foxtel to enable that, roughly$100 a month, that was all free a short time ago.

Select to expand quote

Gazuki said..
People say we did without but the fact is is that you never had them. Saying no flash phone, or internet are luxuarys well I would like to see you get by without them. Fact is if I want to watch the footy I have to have the internet so I can view Foxtel to enable that, roughly$100 a month, that was all free a short time ago.

Its still free, just not live in most cases. I could swear 7 was advertising all games live and free , before the start of the season though...

Select to expand quote

morts said..

Imax1 said..

Craig66 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
If young people saved and lived like our parents , they too could afford a house .
Thats one old car to share , no two big mobile plans , endless nets , three big TV s . Have sheets on the windows for years , not fully furnished .
That is what is needed to do the house thing .
Young people don't like the sound of that .

I used to think something like that too, but what is toughing it out really cost these days?

Sure, you could hang sheets on the windows, but most houses come with something already and even cheap curtains are available. I think our parents might have done what they did because there was no cheap alternative like their is now.

Even flat screen TVs are cheap. Sure, you may not need 3, but what is the difference in costs?

One TV is worth $400, three worth $1200. Make that $2000 and $6000 if they are better TVs, but does that really change the equation much when houses are $500K?


In this case, I am not even talking about young people. Normal people seem to be doing it tough and the mortgage costs seem to be a big part of it, but then again, maybe people have gotten into a pattern of spending that they don't need?

Yes but those $ 6,000 of good TVs are probably on loaned money , so it actually costs over $ 12,000 instead of saving $ 400 for a average TV . People throw out perfectly working smaller TVs.
Thats already one fiftieth of the cost of the house , and that's just big TV cost .
Two average cars , ( 45,000 for both ) , on loan will end up costing well over $ 100,000 , that's one fifth of the cost of a house . Or you could save and buy a perfectly good car for $ 10 ,000.
Do that with all the stuff you want but don't really have to have and it makes a huge difference.
If you can do this , a house is totally doable.

I don't actually know any people in the 'young and trying to buy a house' demographic, but it would be interesting to hear what they are doing. Whether they are wasting money on luxuries, or whether its actually tough.

There are random stories on news.com.au or smh that talk about people that save up to get a deposit, but invariably they helped by their parents, and/or living at home. Sometimes the maths doesn't even seem to work out. I know what it cost me to live without wasting money, and these people are doing much better than that.

When I went to buy a house in 2000/2001, I think they were affordable. Now they are crazy and in my opinion overvalued. Interest rates are low now, but you can't count on that for long.

I think I probably agree on the car thing too. I buy cheap cars, but I know enough about cars to keep costs down and still have something reliable. I think other people go for new cars as they have no ability to pick a good one or maintain it, or maybe they are trying to buy a decent car at the same time?

Unfortunately the only people I know that buy new cars are well paid people in their 50s that are claiming them as work expenses.

Re interest rates.
Home loan bank interest back in my day were......
wait for it .....

17.75%

kids have it so so much easier now

You must be my age , I did 17.5% .
We had 30% deposit and borrowed 270 grand .
It was in a cheap area , we had sheet curtains , no floor coverings on a slab . ( ok , bedrooms had carpet ) , we had old recycled carpet rugs . Five years later i self cork floored the rest .
One TV. No nets or mob phones . ( I still use a $90 flip phone , ( delivered ) , on a $27 plan , endlless calls and txts ).
I survived .
It wasn't so bad , I could still raise kids , ride a trail bike , and piss a little against the wall.

Borrowed 270K & had 30% deposit so about 385K all up. The Interest rates were about 17% in 1989/90ish. As a guide the Median house price in Sydney in 1990 was $194kish which was the highest of any Capital City in Australia but you bought in a cheap area???

Oops , your correct .
After consulting with my wife , which still has memory , it was , 30 grand dep not 30% , and 170 grand we borrowed not 270.
And I thought I was still sharp

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Gazuki said..
People say we did without but the fact is is that you never had them. Saying no flash phone, or internet are luxuarys well I would like to see you get by without them. Fact is if I want to watch the footy I have to have the internet so I can view Foxtel to enable that, roughly$100 a month, that was all free a short time ago.

My parents were stuck in the stone age until recently. They seemed to get by with minimal internet, and no pay TV.

Now, they have both got smart phones, a tablet, some sort of Telstra supplied internet TV, and all the internet they could ever use. They seem to watch a few programs on the TV catchup sites too.

I would say that's a luxury. You can do without it, but you don't need it.

Football is not on TV now? It is where my parents live as its on a lot of the time.

I only have a flip phone , minimal computer nets , no tv nets, I watch what's on TV and use a street directory.
I can afford all the expensive stuff but choose not to.
I get by just fine
Sure I'm not keeping up with all the wiz bang but I don't care . When I socialise I actually talk to people instead of burying my head into nets.
So if someone says you can't get by without , it means there hopelessly sucked into that money and time wasting monster .
Sure , some people have to have it , and for them it is good , but most people don't .
The only thing I lack with my tech is minimal.
So yes it's an expensive luxury .
So saying you need this luxury more than a house is your choice not an excuse .

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Gazuki said..
People say we did without but the fact is is that you never had them. Saying no flash phone, or internet are luxuarys well I would like to see you get by without them. Fact is if I want to watch the footy I have to have the internet so I can view Foxtel to enable that, roughly$100 a month, that was all free a short time ago.

My parents were stuck in the stone age until recently. They seemed to get by with minimal internet, and no pay TV.

Now, they have both got smart phones, a tablet, some sort of Telstra supplied internet TV, and all the internet they could ever use. They seem to watch a few programs on the TV catchup sites too.

I would say that's a luxury. You can do without it, but you don't need it.

Football is not on TV now? It is where my parents live as its on a lot of the time.

Not live

Select to expand quote

Gazuki said..

FormulaNova said..

Gazuki said..
People say we did without but the fact is is that you never had them. Saying no flash phone, or internet are luxuarys well I would like to see you get by without them. Fact is if I want to watch the footy I have to have the internet so I can view Foxtel to enable that, roughly$100 a month, that was all free a short time ago.

My parents were stuck in the stone age until recently. They seemed to get by with minimal internet, and no pay TV.

Now, they have both got smart phones, a tablet, some sort of Telstra supplied internet TV, and all the internet they could ever use. They seem to watch a few programs on the TV catchup sites too.

I would say that's a luxury. You can do without it, but you don't need it.

Football is not on TV now? It is where my parents live as its on a lot of the time.

Not live

I'm not someone that follows it anyway, but what does it matter if its not live? I'm not saying its not important, but I was wondering why it is?

Its annoying when there is a finale to a TV series and you don't see it before someone tells you the ending. Is it the same thing? I used to hate it when watching Survivor from a recording and then find that social media or news websites tell you who won it before you watch it.

I was busy when it was live and free to chill when broadcast for free. No luxury required.

If all the narcissists stopped paying for live streaming it would all be free to air.

Select to expand quote

Foghorn said..
If all the narcissists stopped paying for live streaming it would all be free to air.

It doesn't work like that. Someone somewhere will think that by only making it available on pay TV, that they will try and restrict it from free to air until people start buying it. Remember the fun with the NRL and the super league business?

They will restrict it first and try and sell it and only make it free to air if they are forced to. Recently Optus had to offer it to SBS for the world cup soccer, only because they had problems delivering it. Optus have paid a bundle for this content in order to try and lock in internet subscribers to their services. They think that the only long term way to keep subscribers is by offering content that you can't get elsewhere.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Gazuki said..

FormulaNova said..

Gazuki said..
People say we did without but the fact is is that you never had them. Saying no flash phone, or internet are luxuarys well I would like to see you get by without them. Fact is if I want to watch the footy I have to have the internet so I can view Foxtel to enable that, roughly$100 a month, that was all free a short time ago.

My parents were stuck in the stone age until recently. They seemed to get by with minimal internet, and no pay TV.

Now, they have both got smart phones, a tablet, some sort of Telstra supplied internet TV, and all the internet they could ever use. They seem to watch a few programs on the TV catchup sites too.

I would say that's a luxury. You can do without it, but you don't need it.

Football is not on TV now? It is where my parents live as its on a lot of the time.

Not live

I'm not someone that follows it anyway, but what does it matter if its not live? I'm not saying its not important, but I was wondering why it is?

Its annoying when there is a finale to a TV series and you don't see it before someone tells you the ending. Is it the same thing? I used to hate it when watching Survivor from a recording and then find that social media or news websites tell you who won it before you watch it.

Easy fix that one surely

Select to expand quote

Foghorn said..
If all the narcissists stopped paying for live streaming it would all be free to air.

What makes them narcissists?

And what makes you think free to air TV is free?

Regards, Ado

Select to expand quote

Two average cars , ( 45,000 for both ) , on loan will end up costing well over $ 100,000 , that's one fifth of the cost of a house . Or you could save and buy a perfectly good car for $ 10 ,000.

We're a well-established middle-aged couple and we've never spent $10k on a car. They should always be full of sand, wetsuit damp, sails, boards, bikes and camping gear so who cares how shiny they are? Meanwhile a friend has just spent about $60k on his new car and he is lamenting that he can't afford a property.

As you say, many people could afford a house if they just cut back on their car - and a cheap car these days is better than a good car was in the days when houses were cheaper (and smaller, and without air conditioning etc). But overall the sums indicate that it IS harder to afford a house than it used to be, and we can't blame first home buyers for the fact that there are fewer older, smaller houses available at the bottom of the market than there used to be.

Select to expand quote

Kite285 said..
If you focus on what we do have in Australia, the actual reality of where we live, its pretty bloody good. The opportunities available to us, the likelihood we won't be invaded by a foreign country tomorrow, the government support for all residenents if your life goes really bad, the options available for government support in domestic violence circumstances to starting a new business. This list is almost endless........

If you think we live in anything less than a supportive environment, you have a narrow view of they way the majority of the humans on earth live. Your likely whinging like a spoilt child who just wants more no matter what he/she gets.

The majority of legislation in our country is directed towards positive outcomes, considering the broader circumstances in making new rules or regulations on particular situations.

I'm not saying life is easy, but where on earth is life really easy, like genuinely easy. A place where there's little challenge to live the way you want?

Keep your victim mentality if you want, will give yourself something to moan about to your mates who think the same way, and you may feel good for doing so.

If any of the "problems of Australia" raised in above posts really bother you, you need a reality check.

Well said. Apart from some of those who are trying to buy property, most people are doing incredibly well compared to other places and other times. We live longer, have fewer nasty deaths and injuries, have more spare cash, can buy things people only used to dream about, travel more, have better medical care, and have lots of support when times get tough.

As a snapshot, at the first place I worked we were under a tin roof with no air conditioning, no insulation, doing manual labouring on dangerous equipment, unloading trucks by hand, and living in a haze of wood dust thrown out by automatic lathes, sanding belts etc. We spent all day spitting out clogged sawdust. That sort of working environment was common, and it was crap. Workplaces today are often incomparably better than in other times and places.

In almost all quantifiable ways we are close to being the luckiest nation in the history of the world. We are too consumerist, but that's something you buy into and can largely get out of.

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Gazuki said..
Kite285, you are half right,. If you have cancer or missing a limb you will be looked after and therefore we live in a very lucky country. But to pay for that the rest of us work BS hours to cover it.

I personally work minimum of 240+hrs a month and yes I have luxuarys like internet ect but I still feel like I am just treading water.

Government takes 40% of everything I earn and then I still have 1400 a month child support before I even get started, try adding on a mortgage to "get in front" and your fuct. Never mind car etc to get to the job.

We are a lucky country but I think I would rather be a farmer earning 2 bucks a day,...at least I would only owe everyone $1 a day and not $3.

How come you're paying "40% off everything you earn"? Even if you are on $180k you're only paying 30% of that in income tax.

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Chris249 said..

Gazuki said..
Government takes 40% of everything I earn

How come you're paying "40% off everything you earn"? Even if you are on $180k you're only paying 30% of that in income tax.

30% tax on what you earn
10% GST on anything you purchase
10% GST on any bill you pay,
plus other assorted levies, duties etc. charged by local, state and federal govt. departments etc. [which also attract GST.]

someplace I read an example, figures might not be perfect - but near enough to get the point across!

earn $100, lose $30 tax,
buy $30 fuel, lose another $40 in excise, levies and tax.

out of your $100, the govt. took $70.

When he spoke of the money he earns it sounds like income tax. GST goes on most things you buy, which is an important difference.

Even if the government does take $30, isn't that a reasonable price for defence, roads, airline traffic controllers, schools, techs, universities, ports, buses, nurses, doctors, operating theatres, police and all the other things we have?

Comparing some of the lifestyle we have here to the lifestyle in Italy, which is the only one of the three nations the OP mentioned for comparison that I've been to, we seem to have it incredibly good. I have met the sons of highly successful businessmen there who are desperate to leave because the economy is so bad. Houses seem to generally be very small; flats more common. Yards are tiny, roads are packed, bureaucracy is both inefficient and full of red tape, and the big 4WDs and boats that some people here have seem to be all but unknown. When you have people who say they need a $30k+ SUV and therefore can't afford a house it seems that they have not adjusted their priorities to allow them to get what they want.