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bene313 said..
Bitcoin is not being treated as a currency by it's users. It's part of their crypto portfolio.

And in order to buy other cryptos and participate in ICOs, traders first need some bitcoin. Crypto mania = demand for bitcoin.

yeah and the same goes for ether - thats been on a tear too. you can even see local blips on it as aussies pick it up to buy PL and the like.

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evlPanda said..

Bara said..
Yep Razz your maths is very loose! You should research what a microgrid actually is and why it can only be applied in things like a retirement village or an apartment building. Maybe a new estate down the track. Ie most people will not have access to them without major infrastructure spend.

Ahhh... that's how (I thought it) works. Doesn't say that anywhere on their site. I thought that maybe they'd done some deals with major providers, but it didn't say anything about that either. Seems an odd thing to omit.

What's PowerLedger worth now? How many customers do they have?

...mind you there's a link to an October 2011 thread a few pages back where I said bitcoin was a dead experiment, so don't necessarily listen to me.

Yep thats how it works and none of the powr holders that ive spoken with understand that at all. They think it can somehow be applied to the entire global energy grid which is why they are so bullish on it. Most of em havnt even read the whitepaper its pretty clear or if they did they didnt understand it.

Market cap has pulled back abit but this little coin that raised US $34M only a few weeks back is now sitting at US$850M market value and having a good look at cracking ONE BILLION DOLLARS!!!!

I got booted off the power ledger telegram group last night for asking the simple question "do you think a 3/4 billion $ market cap can be justified this early?"

It really is amazing what crowd behaviour in an anonymous format like alt coins can achieve. Absolutely fascinating.

Meanwhile the one i could buy (QSP) cos i didnt really understand what it was worth has more than doubled in 48 hours of listing. Going to give PL a run for its money maybe who knows? Its holders are nearly as fanatical and naive as the PL crew so anything is possible.

Maybe this was what the dot.com bust was like at the coal face I dont know - you can get alot closer to the crazy in coinland than you ever could on a stock exchange.

I have it at ~$AU300m: coinmarketcap.com/currencies/power-ledger/

Still, How many customers does it have? Users? Dozens?
To be worth that much their dozens of customers' power bills must be astronomical. It only makes sense.

I'm a Bitcoin maximalist andI'mcalling that crazy. Sheesh. At least I can point to a single exchange, CoinBase, signing up 100,000 usersper day.

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Most of em havnt even read the whitepaper its pretty clear or if they did they didnt understand it.

People are more impressed by technical stuff when they don't understand it. I know from daily experience. I often do it to get fixes past triage. They flip out if I just write "fixed simple bug. <= not <." I entertain myself by writing paragraphs of utter nonsense to see if they pick it up. They don't. They are happy. I have fun.

Here's my white paper for evolutionary programming using decentralised archetypes!Enjoy!
http://scigen.csail.mit.edu/scicache/736/scimakelatex.3142.evlPanda.pdf

Love to know what you think. It's going to revolutionise online gaming by using decentralisation!

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evlPanda said..
Here's my white paper for evolutionary programming using decentralised archetypes!Enjoy!
http://scigen.csail.mit.edu/scicache/736/scimakelatex.3142.evlPanda.pdf

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The requested URL /scicache/736/scimakelatex.3142.evlPanda.pdf was not found on this server.

Apache/2.4.7 (Ubuntu) Server at scigen.csail.mit.edu Port 80

Keep up the good work

Nice jacket

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evlPanda said..
I have it at ~$AU300m: coinmarketcap.com/currencies/power-ledger/

Still, How many customers does it have? Users? Dozens?
To be worth that much their dozens of customers' power bills must be astronomical. It only makes sense.

I'm a Bitcoin maximalist andI'mcalling that crazy. Sheesh. At least I can point to a single exchange, CoinBase, signing up 100,000 usersper day.

Most of em havnt even read the whitepaper its pretty clear or if they did they didnt understand it.

People are more impressed by technical stuff when they don't understand it. I know from daily experience. I often do it to get fixes past triage. They flip out if I just write "fixed simple bug. <= not <." I entertain myself by writing paragraphs of utter nonsense to see if they pick it up. They don't. They are happy. I have fun.

Here's my white paper for evolutionary programming using decentralised archetypes!Enjoy!
http://scigen.csail.mit.edu/scicache/736/scimakelatex.3142.evlPanda.pdf

Love to know what you think. It's going to revolutionise online gaming by using decentralisation!

300m is for only the 35% of the coins in circulation so far. Because this is a finite market of potential you must use the total 1b of coins for market cap that the company still holds and will issue to new partners, staff etc just like you use the total number of shares for a company ie $860m. At one stage in aud she was well over 1 billion.

Anyway if I've helped a few of us "normies" be wary of this one my job is done. It will possibly go to $5b before it goes to zero who knows?

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albers said..

evlPanda said..
Here's my white paper for evolutionary programming using decentralised archetypes!Enjoy!
http://scigen.csail.mit.edu/scicache/736/scimakelatex.3142.evlPanda.pdf

Not Found

The requested URL /scicache/736/scimakelatex.3142.evlPanda.pdf was not found on this server.

Apache/2.4.7 (Ubuntu) Server at scigen.csail.mit.edu Port 80

Keep up the good work

You can make your own:
pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/

My point being people are daunted by things they don't understand, don't want to look stupid, and are impressed by people that do understand and give them their full trust.

Papers generated using the above Random White Paper Generator have been published, invites given to present the papers at conferences and so on. They've been doing this for years. They have photos and videos of their gibberish talks on the above link.

I think Power Ledger, while having potential, falls into this category. Most people that have invested in it have no idea how it actually works. They have dozens of "customers", a few trials running, and yet it is valued at $300m. About 10% of David Jones.

Would it be worth the same if it launched on the ASX? Or even NASDAQ?

ive just got a question on wallets for different cryptocurrencies. With so many different currencies, it looks like you need multiple wallets if you are using multiple currencies, eg EggCoin, Neo, BitCash, Tron, Qtum? Is this correct or is there a wallet that can handle all of the currencies.

My personal favourite atm is Neo and Bitcash, not for any useful purpose other than an asset. but I think the pure size and volume of Bitcoin will prevail, just like Visa and MasterCard.

Its also a minefield having to provide photos and drivers licenses jpg to online wallets. I can just see this info getting hacked and used by hackers.

Anyhow here my story for debate....And why im so against it.

Not everyone works in interwebs and isn't selling "apps". and can use bitcoin.

The crypto currency has no jurisdiction No capitol gains no tax and you cant just withdraw it when you like.

I don't believe the new " world currency will take over the EURO or the USD etc. there is monetary system in place already.

If the crypto currencies pose a threat to the main stream trading currency to a nation. Government intervention will be inevitable.

I think a global currency will eventually exist. But its not going to be run by monkey muppet online gamers that are flogging off garbage in a pyramid scheme.


Guys like panda barra crypto. Good luck to you.
Its morally wrong SNAFU If you know what your doing I think you can make a lot of money out of it.

Ive been brought up different where I work and supply labour etc for a monetary reward.

I know what your doing Its ****ed But on the other end of the scale id like to shake your hand for capitalizing on it .

your not that stupid. I feel for the ones you are burning !

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busterwa said..

Not everyone works in interwebs and isn't selling "apps". and can use bitcoin.

Same can be said for the corner bookstore before Amazon came along.

The crypto currency has no jurisdiction No capitol gains no tax and you cant just withdraw it when you like.

The sale of crytos by an Australian citizen will cause a CGT even. Capital gains will be payable. Watch this space too!
You should pay tax on gains.
Hospitals
Schools

I don't believe the new " world currency will take over the EURO or the USD etc. there is monetary system in place already.

This is true, however, Fiat is inflationary and a hidden tax on savers. Look how many trillions pumped up Wall Street post GFC- little benifit to Main Street.

If the crypto currencies pose a threat to the main stream trading currency to a nation. Government intervention will be inevitable.

Agree. I would also like to see regulation with respect to ICOs.

I think a global currency will eventually exist.

Gold, Silver, Copper, Debt,Visa, Paypal, AM Express...... Already exist and have for a long time.

But its not going to be run by monkey muppet online gamers that are flogging off garbage in a pyramid scheme.

Bitcoin decentralized / .

Guys like panda barra crypto. Good luck to you.

Risk Reward/ timing. Luck has nothing to do with it.

Its morally wrong SNAFU If you know what your doing I think you can make a lot of money out of it. Ive been brought up different where I work and supply labour etc for a monetary reward.

I don't see how it is morally wrong.
If you sell at a profit or loss, someone else takes ownership.

They might/might not profit. Same as Cryptos. Its just a another Asset class.

I used to see West Australian Newspaper share price every day when I went to work. It was $13 bucks at one stage, went to $3. Blame poor circulation and a poor business model. Don't blame the people who sold their shares.

I know what your doing Its ****ed But on the other end of the scale id like to shake your hand for capitalizing on it .

your not that stupid. I feel for the ones you are burning !

Who is getting burnt?

But I can already purchase items from there using AUS $ There would be no advantage converting to crypto and paying a trader and his chain for the exchange? I would of converted a currency excepted globally with a virtual currency thats not..

Apart from the hysteria I don't understand the advantages of converting to a volatile online currency. I can see tax evasion on large purchases mabe But even laundering money wouldn't work cause you cant take wads into cryptotrader and palm it off. . Everything is flagged by a bank. . Buy crypto thru your bank the exchange crypto into your bank.
You can hide but you cant run from the taxation office?

The world's largest Ponzi scheme so far was in the early 90's in USSR..up to 40 million people were involved before it collapsed..I knew someone who made good money out of it...
The next big financial fraud they had over there was the forex currency trading platforms..not as big as MMM Ponzi though.
EDIT ha ha.. according to wiki "Currency trading became a common form of fraud in early 2008 in US"
...they run out of fools on Forex trading in Russia long before 2008
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_fraud

Did you know when the tec bubble popped - 40% of the world was connected to the internet.

Currently less that 1% are in crypto.

i think the more relevant comparison there underoath would be how many investors were in tech stocks in the bubble vs those in cryptos. Dont know the answer to that though.

Seems to me about the same % of people are talking about cryptos now as were talking about tech stocks at the time. About the same number of press articles too by the smell of it.

FOMO was as big then as it is now. Its all eerily similar. The biggest difference i see is how much faster things move and I reckon thats down to social media which is playing a huge role. A day in crypto is like a month in financial markets in terms of price action, trends etc

Cant help but think we have had the equivalent of a three year bull market in a matter of months in BTC.

Crikey, bitcoin price is still going gang busters.

Enjoy you're bitscoin my precious Me no spends it me no trades it my precious

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Harrow said..
Crikey, bitcoin price is still going gang busters.

Infinity or bust.

Interesting read:
www.runtogold.com/the-great-bitcoin-bull-market-of-2017/

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Poida said..
ive just got a question on wallets for different cryptocurrencies. With so many different currencies, it looks like you need multiple wallets if you are using multiple currencies, eg EggCoin, Neo, BitCash, Tron, Qtum? Is this correct or is there a wallet that can handle all of the currencies.

Coinomi is the Swiss army knife of wallets.
www.coinomi.com/en/

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..... the sound of a 20% plunge in 90 mintues...

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Bara said..
i think the more relevant comparison there underoath would be how many investors were in tech stocks in the bubble vs those in cryptos. Dont know the answer to that though.

Seems to me about the same % of people are talking about cryptos now as were talking about tech stocks at the time. About the same number of press articles too by the smell of it.

FOMO was as big then as it is now. Its all eerily similar. The biggest difference i see is how much faster things move and I reckon thats down to social media which is playing a huge role. A day in crypto is like a month in financial markets in terms of price action, trends etc

Cant help but think we have had the equivalent of a three year bull market in a matter of months in BTC.

(I suspect the Apple one, at least, is a little deceiving as it has had at least one split)

The main point to take out of the dot com bubble there panda is not to look at the one company in thousands that made it out the other side but to recognize that 99% of them ultimately failed or lost billions in shareholder equity.

I get that you think BTC is the apple in your chart there and maybe it is i dont know. But neither do you or anyone else and thats the whole point of tech bubbles. Most of the shares/coins will fail. A very very few will come to dominate over time.

For now it looks like it is the apple/google/facebook/amazon but there is so much happening in this space that you cant determine with any certainty that BTC wont be replaced at some point and very quickly become worthless.

If the BTC / BCH flip trade didnt wake you up to that possibility it should have.

So the question is how to position yourself to be holding amazon.com and not pets.com when things wash up and I reckon the way to play that is via diversification - all your eggs in BTC is a huge gamble. But so are so many alt coins. its a real dilemma

Its always always about risk return in the end.

BTW i reckon the US tech stocks are set for a huuuge correction as interest rates return to normal too.

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Bara said..
For now it looks like it is the apple/google/facebook/amazon but there is so much happening in this space that you cant determine with any certainty that BTC wont be replaced at some point and very quickly become worthless.

If the BTC / BCH flip trade didnt wake you up to that possibility it should have.

If that didn't wake you up to the probability that it is the drachma, denar and dollar of this sphere then it should have. That was a very expensive attack and it failed. Even if it had succeeded it would have flipped right back again. Because fundamentals.

Since this thread started Bitcoin has had China pull out, not one but two highly controversial hard forks, and a highly funded market manipulation attack. The most dramatic period in its history.

These have all been good for bitcoin.

I'm not reading the candles, as fun as they are to read. I'm doing (if it can be used at all in this space) a more Buffet style fundamental analysis.

Who are the developers on the team? For example there's one name mentioned in the original white paper that started this craze. Which team is he on? Which team is by far[i] the most experienced in this new and [i]highly specialised space? And the largest? And the most thorough? Which code base does every crypto developer aspire to contribute to, consciously or not?

It's a no-brainer; all the others are alt-coins.
You know what we call coins that work? Coins.

Bitcoin Cash
Have a read of the "fun times" Trezor/Slush (there's a big name) had while supporting the BCH launch:
blog.trezor.io/bitcoin-cash-bcash-integration-report-review-372f9eefcf09?gi=ed39d96bd73b

Segwit2x
Especially have a read of the failed Segwit2x bug that would have crashed its own chain a moment before its launch:
bitcointechtalk.com/segwit2x-bugs-explained-8e0c286124bc

And let me introduce you to one of the trinity behind the Bitcoin Cash circus, self-made millionaire (he loves that), convicted criminal, and now a citizen of St. Kitts, Roger Ver:


Another member of that bch trinity is Craig Wright, FFS.

You trust these people? Even like them?

There is a reason these alt coins are derided in the community, and that's because they are run by nefarious, dangerous, blundering teams looking to make a quick buck and obtain money, fame and power. The epitome of a scam. It's all gone to their heads.

The two launches above, especially the segwit2x, are mind-blowingly bad. Disaster zones. That's a $100B+ project, and it's going live with really, really poor testing. It might just be the worst software launch in history, even worse than what core has been saying all along, and why we are still on the original chain.

All of this is good for bitcoin.

P.S. I'm a software developer myself so I'm biased toward good software developers when it comes to software. You know them when you see them. You can try to argue bitcoin isn't software (you're not wrong) but that's like trying to argue with me that an elephant isn't made of DNA.

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BTW i reckon the US tech stocks are set for a huuuge correction as interest rates return to normal too.

I've seen this more and more and more the last few years, and I haven't seen a single dissenting view anywhere of late. If there is please show me, interested.

The most trending cryptocurrency infos, collected at one page and sorted by popularity. If you wanna stay up to day with this stuff cryptonewstrends.com/

LiviaCoins was the website I sold my ethereum for cash last week.

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audreybyers4 said..
LiviaCoins was the website I sold my ethereum for cash last week.

Hey, that's great news. I think I might buy some and then sell them on your that website.

Tell me, what sort of water sporting activity brought you to seabreeze in the first place? Are you going to use your cash from selling your etherum last week to buy something new?

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HubsonT said..
The most trending cryptocurrency infos, collected at one page and sorted by popularity. If you wanna stay up to day with this stuff cryptonewstrends.com/

Do spammers go to the trouble of creating random 'American sounding' names? Seriously, there are not that many Hudson's floating around in Aus, let alone Aubreys.

Maybe a DingoDave or KevKoala could add some Aussie authenticity to the spam account names?

Anyone notice bitcoin drop from $11k to $9k in the last couple of days. Once the collapse is complete, the world is going to be full of warehouses full of servers with the latest graphics cards doing nothing. What an interesting piece of economic history this is going to be,

The new bit coin Lamborghini.

Props to Razzonater for even starting this post. I didn't end up with a Lambo but got a Corvette.

I bought Bitcoin when it was $12,800AUD when FOMO existed and sold when it was $25,500AUD. I had weak hands.

I doubled my money in less than a few weeks, and have left my "useless" FIAT on the exchange in case I want to "Invest" again.

I think I'm gonna pull that "useless" FIAT back out, because it seems exchanges are gonna start disappearing soon, along with the miners. They all have exit plans. And I need a new GPU too.

I love reading Reddit's Bitcoin and Buttcoin subreddits.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/

www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/

It's so entertaining.

https://www.gdax.com/trade/BTC-USD

Sooner this **** dies the better I reckon