I have been listening to the radio a lot lately, and here in Sydney there seems to be a lot of ads from 'APIA' about NSW importing most of its gas from other states, and NSW having enough gas for 500 years, and the price increasing.

Its funny in that the ad stays away from the dangerous words 'coal seam gas' and avoids saying that gas prices would come down if they were allowed to develop more gas in NSW. It sure seems to imply that they would, in the best politician type method it can (no promises here!).

So, does anyone really care that NSW needs to import most of its gas from other states? I don't. Why would I care that it comes from somewhere else, especially as there are huge pipelines to carry the stuff from states where there is lots of gas and few people, to states where there is not as much gas and lots of people.

Is this just a political stunt by APIA to open up coal seam gas drilling in NSW?

I find this whole ad a bit insulting. I worked in AGL at one stage and I remember the big hoopla about having a giant pipeline so that you could get it from up north to down south where its needed. What's changed, or is this just another example of lobbying the public for opening up something they don't otherwise want?

I think you mean APPEA - who would quite happily sell thier grandparents to drill a well next to the opera house. Think along the lines of suits dining on endangered animals for lunch because the opportunity exists and you will unserrstand thier modus operandi.

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longwinded said..
I think you mean APPEA - who would quite happily sell thier grandparents to drill a well next to the opera house. Think along the lines of suits dining on endangered animals for lunch because the opportunity exists and you will unserrstand thier modus operandi.

I don't know. I can only hear it, and originally thought it was the australian pensioners insurance mob, which seemed a bit strange!

I googled it and got www.apia.net.au , but I am not sure.

I pretty much think you are right though. It all seems to be about someone making money and trying to argue it won't hurt a thing. I am not convinced, and when you can already get gas from the NT. Why not?

I heard the best one yesterday on the radio;
The two big energy providers have told the government they could provide cheaper energy to australia if the government would just get rid of their competition. Because of competition in the industry there is a smaller market share for all, therefore higher prices.
I cannot believe they even tried it on.

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dan berry said..
I heard the best one yesterday on the radio;
The two big energy providers have told the government they could provide cheaper energy to australia if the government would just get rid of their competition. Because of competition in the industry there is a smaller market share for all, therefore higher prices.
I cannot believe they even tried it on.

So a private, regulated monopoly will give cheaper prices than an open market?

Haha didn't hear the word "regulation" anywhere. They did say though that prices would still go up in future
How stupid do they think the abbott government is..........

?? stupid enough

bigger picture we have big demand for gas & have pre-sold too much to export markets.

Flow ons:
big generators switching back to coal as gas too pricey
lpg price going up for cars, homes, etc.
aluminium & other refineries might close due to power uncertainty

What we need is legislated minimums for domestic market rath than export it all.

Is that FRACKING, didn't hear that word either.

No.

Isn't coal seam gas the resource and fracking one of the methods of its extraction?

Yes Little Jon and dan berry, you're both right. That is how they get the coal seam gas, by fracking.

They pump a chemical, sand and water cocktail deep deep into the earth in the process to extract gas. It causes fractures, hence the name fracking. The process uses massive amounts of water and this "produced" (toxic) water, which is also highly salty then has to be stored and treated, although it is still unfit for human consumption. Not sure what uses it is actually fit for...

Other spin offs of this method are earthquakes, potentially irreversibly damaged acquifers, and if you're really lucky, water you can light from your kitchen tap.

60 Minutes isn't usually a source I'd use for credible info, but this segment they have got pretty well right. Recommend watching the whole 13 minutes, but head straight to 7:29 if you're only here for the fire tap action...

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Chris6791 said..
No.

I knew there would be one. It's normally me.

Bad stuff poisons land, air, water, soil, pretty awesome really. It's a good example of how to destroy a town nature and all the people who live there so 4 or 5 out of every 100 people in the area can get a job in the industry.

Not that I agree with it at all, (I think its a corrupt disgrace) ,if they are going to open cut or longwall mine an area , then extraction of the gas should be mandatory.
If the area is the Liverpool Plains or areas of that sustainability farm wise, I don't know how you could morally comprehend that coal seam gas was in the best interest of the community in general.
Nothing like walking into a drill site and smelling diesel, being told bye the crew that they got the drill head jammed, and it only 4 hours and 10 thousand litres of diesel ( a lubricrant) to free the head.

CSG is not good.
Have a look at Newcastle Icac and go from there !!

funny thing is it doesnt matter where the fuel comes from it is not ever cheaper in the state/country (Australia) it is mined in because it is always sold at market price to the consumer

Hey let's screw over these big mining company's and not buy there products!

yes, that's right just walk to work and light a natural candle made from recycled fat.

Let's go back to nature and live in the past, stone huts and all

^^ or just use more sustainable mining practices.

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dan berry said..
^^ or just use more sustainable mining practices.

what..............and reduce the profit margin and shareholders dividends


stephen

Gasland 1 and 2 are really well made docos about fracking in the US, should be able to find them for free via google. There is some really scary stuff going on by politicians lining their back pockets..all the tech is held by a few companies like Halliburton. Everything is super hush hush and people are just paid to keep quiet about poisoned water and leaks.

I dont really think most people understand Fracking and just see the dollars

A great start to this topic is to view the short Aussie documentary "Fractured country" but yes, you will see a lot of advertisement coming as the Gladstone QLD port is opening in 2015 and they will be able to export the gas into foreign markets which will pay 3x the amount we pay here. So guess who they will sell too? Australia is not a heavy gas user, and the only reason we are seeing gasfields being proposed throughout NSW is strictly for overseas profit. Unconventional gas (that is how csg, tight sands etc) is mined through out Australia on land while this same process can be done a lot more safely offshore, but companies don't see it that way, especially short term companies that are unsustainable. There is a wealth of good info out there - but be careful what you find from APPEA, they are a paid group representing mining and will only publish one side and miss a lot of known facts.
Some great info can also be found at www.facebook.com/groups/cracsg/

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dan berry said..
^^ or just use more sustainable mining practices.

Hey when your digging a hole does it matter? Well maybe if it's in your back yard.

I am against fracking, and we need to conserve all resources including farm land.

Future is a long way off so a little planning now will make a big difference long term.

But who is held accountable?

Us the consumer or the government who makes the rules.

To me it seems a free for all world wide, and we are not learning from it!

Yeh well time will tell,don't get me started we will pay the price ,be afraid be very afraid!

Unfortunately it is a common human nature to not care, for the vast majority are short sighted...... If it's not happening in my backyard I don't care.

Here's some "basic", "high-level" info...;

At the most simple level, the land "owner", only owns the surface. The Crown owns whatever is underneath! I think most people are aware of that concept.

Coal Seam Methane / Coal Seam Gas - this "product" is actually a big problem for Underground Coal Mines... Canary in coal mine concept... This is the exact gas that kills the canary before the humans... This is what killed those people at Pike River (?), NZ, a few years back.

In these Coal Seam Gas "Zones", there are actually several layers, or seams of Coal, which could actually be mined in the future... Although hopefully we can use Solar & Wind, before they get to the point of mining these zones...

Yes, the environment is impacted on, both at the surface, and underground at the well sites, and surrounds...

The Fiscal Effect: there is "MEGA" money pouring into our Australian Economy as a result... To the point where even Lego profits from this... Excess money, results in purchasing of expensive Lego kits!

Gas - as a resource:... We all love gas these days... Heating our homes in Winter... The harsh reality is that we all like to stay warm, we have bigger houses now, and the population is growing, and we are using more and more gas...

Gas in Europe - traditionally, The Russians supplied the bulk of Europe's Gas... But now Italy, Germany and others are sick of that Black Market, and BP (and others) are gearing up to build new pipelines into Europe, via the South East Route, through Turkey, and not via Russia. Although the bulk of the gas will come from the exact same region... Caspian Sea Region. Azerbaijan is on the western edge, and they will 'profit' from this... Even many Aussies will be involved... Quite a few Aussie guys are already there, or are about to go there... They have built up experience from building the pipelines through Queensland...

Germany - they claim to be almost 100% running on Wind & Solar, but this it total Bull Crap! They still have about 20 Nuclear Reactors running, although they are switch maybe 1 off per year... But I bet they are only switching off the smaller older ones... Not sure, I haven't researched it in detail. In Germany, wind is effectively better than Solar, and The Wind works at night (usually!), for when you want to use lights, and electric heating, in Winter, etc... But Germany also uses masses of Gas for heating... Cold Climate... EVERYONE WANTS GAS!



There's no easy answers either way... This is just a bit of "mostly factual" stuff that is going on...

I just came across this article on SMH:

www.smh.com.au/business/companies/gas-industrys-depreciation-formula-a-licence-to-print-money-20140914-10gtrm.html

It seems gas demand is actually falling. Down by 8.4% apparently. The article suggests that gas prices are increasing because of the accounting system they use where they charge for the replacement cost of infrastructure that has already been paid for.

So, it seems the only reason that 'they' need fracking is to supplement their business to export gas to other countries.

Why would we want to risk water supplies and ground water contamination for the sake of the gas business making more money? I guess it will come down to politics and if someone thinks that we need it, even when it seems we don't.