An individuals DNA sequence remains the same, regardless of age. So, if were able to clone people successfully, what age would the clone be - a baby or an adult, and why?

That is deep.

I assume the clone would need to go through the same ageing process as we do, if DNA does not change during ageing. It is just an instruction set on how to build you, not maintain you.

They would clone your DNA, it would start by forming a blastocyst or an embryo, become a fetus and then grow up just like the DNA donor.

I assume that even with the exact same DNA the clones could and would become COMPLETELY different depending on the environment in which they are raised. Food, exercise, climate etc, you are a product of your genetics and environment.

By tweaking the DNA and many other biological elements I'm sure, (and probably has been done in secret underground laboratories for decades), they can and have achieved anything. I remember Dolly the Sheep. Cloning plants is easy too.

It's just not ethical or moral enough for us to know about how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Then why can't my skin reproduce itself soft and supple like a baby's skin as I get older? Same instructions for each individual cell being produced, right?

Perhaps similar to Genetic Memory but on a cellular scale. It's definitely a can of worms.

Maybe your actual DNA doesn't change, but it has maybe additional "save files" somehow. Like a vanilla computer program the code stays the same but there are discrete additions that then integrate with the orignal code which then outputs. It adds extra instructions so when the cells replicate they remember they only have so many times left to divide or they degrade each division. Or MUTATE.

I think you can represent practitioners of modern medicine as experts in car mechanics. We can diagnose and repair most things on the vehicle, but we are a long way off being the actual vehicle designer or manufacturer. We still need to order parts and read workshop manuals but we are getting better every day.

What do you think about the head transplant that supposedly will take place in December?

www.sciencetimes.com/articles/11181/20170328/worlds-first-human-head-transplant-all-set-in-december-man-from-russia-volunteered.htm

People ridiculed organ and heart transplants at first and it took a long time to get it right. If only we could re-program his body at a cellular level or DNA then they wouldn't be cutting his head off and sewing it to another body.

Also it should really be called a body transplant as the head is getting a new body, not the other way around. But hey, sewing in new hearts, lungs and kidneys seems to be working for now.

Telomeres shrink as cells reproduce themselves. So adult DNA is shorter than baby DNA.
On the other hand, I heard something the other day about NADH, which is a B group vitamin, acting to restore telomere length.

Our DNA gets copied repeatedly until the day we kick the bucket. There is a problem with the precision of the copies as we get older. Let's use photocopying as an example. The first copy off the machine is very good. If you are to use the copy itself to make the second copy, its sharpness will slightly diminish. Keep repeating the process, you will find the sharpness will reduced more and more. Eventually, the copies will be fuzzy.

DNA will become less and less precise as it is copied more and more. Our wound does not heal as well or as quickly is due to such "fuzziness". However, there is good news. The cells in our nostrils are as good as new. They are often used to grow stem-cells.

By the way, how many copies of yourself are you going to make ? Maxwell Smart in that comedy "Get Smart" has a "cloning machine". All you have to do is to walk inside it, and Bob is your uncle...An exact copy of you stands right in front of you. Neat, innit?

I could almost believe the Buffalo theory. It might be in the wrong thread but anyway it makes terrible drunken sense.

"A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And, when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.

In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we all know, kills brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of alocohol eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine!"

So just muck yourself up?

Evolution, let the weaker cells die and the stronger reproduce/replicate. Haha

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Windpasser said..

In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we all know, kills brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of alocohol eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine!"

Sounds good in theory, Windpasser. However, if you are privileged enough to meet a few of those long-term piss-pots, I think you will very quickly throw that theory into the dunny. They become dumber and dumber, and not sharper as theorised !

Maybe Jupiter is onto something. (including the Buffalo theory, that's why it's a theory and not fact)

Copying and using a compression codec over and over cripples the actual source, as inherit in JPG images and video compression, for example

Maybe our cells do the same thing, the DNA is the same sequence but just shorter like MR Milk said. More compressed?

I've read before they have been able to synthesise DNA and store Data within it 100% error free for 1,000,000 years.

I'll throw in a wiki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_digital_data_storageas

This is getting too Matrix like and making me think about intelligent design and Sky Fairies.

Mmm dinner soon. What were we talking about?

What do religious people think about DNA?

Does it exist. Are mirrors real?

I'm drunk against Doc's orders. Phukh Me.

2 weeks after 18 hrs on is usually alright

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Windpasser said..
Maybe Jupiter is onto something. (including the Buffalo theory, that's why it's a theory and not fact)

Copying and using a compression codec over and over cripples the actual source, as inherit in JPG images and video compression, for example

What I described about what DNA copying, and the analogy by using phtocopying is not my original idea. Although I would dearly claim it as my own, but I am not that clever. Damn !

It is the what I learned about it watching various scientific shows like the Catalyst. Bless the ABC. It is not just a bunch of leftists unwashed dole bludgers as some here believed.

yep, talk about deep.
Genetic theory on SB, and not even in heavy weather. :)

Actually it's a bit timely on a personal level, I'm still spinning out.
I gave bloods late last year to help reaserch into an offshoot of Epilepsy.
Its pretty rare, published at 1.5 people per 9,000,000, yet it took my mother (43yo),brother (38) and is in the process of my sister (42).

So I found out that my DNA has been in the US since September, being compared to the rest of my family's, looking at 4 genes specifically on the basis I don't (?) have it. Once this difference is identified, who know what happens.

We did genetic testing 25 odd years ago when at Uni, and I looked up the Medline info as google wasn't born yet, but what you can test now via simple blood tests, you used to have to do with brain tissue, and I passed on that.

We do indeed live in interesting times.

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Mr Milk said..
Telomeres shrink as cells reproduce themselves. So adult DNA is shorter than baby DNA.
On the other hand, I heard something the other day about NADH, which is a B group vitamin, acting to restore telomere length.

Oh god.

Before anyone goes down that path please check the amount and delivery method they used on those mice, and then think about whether that is practical for you (and your budget).

Don't forget side effects include cancer.

Also, because the body has less of something in its old age doesn't mean that is what is causing old age. See: hair.

Reduced NADH is most likely an indicator of age, not a cause of age, but I'm sure that won't stop people spending a fortune on products that resemble the mice experiment.

BTW the only thing that has proven to reverse some ageing (skin that, alas, you can't see) is High Intensity Interval Training.

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Windpasser said..
What do you think about the head transplant that supposedly will take place in December?

www.sciencetimes.com/articles/11181/20170328/worlds-first-human-head-transplant-all-set-in-december-man-from-russia-volunteered.htm

People ridiculed organ and heart transplants at first and it took a long time to get it right. If only we could re-program his body at a cellular level or DNA then they wouldn't be cutting his head off and sewing it to another body.

Also it should really be called a body transplant as the head is getting a new body, not the other way around. But hey, sewing in new hearts, lungs and kidneys seems to be working for now.

They are even claiming they can reconnect the two spinal cords together so that he will be able to control the body!

Your DNA is at its best and most original when you are very young. Cloning your DNA when you are at a senior age is not as viable. Then I hit on an idea...please listen very carefully, I shall only say it once !

How about for a small fee, I can collect and store your DNA for future cloning? I had this spark of brilliance when I was sitting on my stool, sucking on my can, and I realised I have some spare space in my beer fridge at the back of the house.

Fees? $30/month plus GST. If you pay an extra $100 annually, I can provide a report on the progress of your DNA. Tax deductible of course. This deal is only available to Seabreeze members, and only the first 30 callers will be accepted. But wait...there is more...You will get a stubbie holder plus a keyring.

So don't wait. Call now !

No point getting a new body while your brain begins to suffer dementia. I wonder when will they be able to transfer your consciousness and memories to a new brain. Or even better, transfer it to a computer chip.

I figure if you transplant a brain into another body, the identity remains that of the brain donor. But what if the memories were placed into a computer chip that was then placed into a donor body, and there was no genetic or biological input from the 'memory donor' - who or what is the identity of the being? Is it a human if it doesn't have a biological brain? Do the feelings and emotions have any less real meaning if they reside in a computer chip that is able to replicate the complexity of human brain, especially if the memories and personality were originally from an actual human?

If you or a family member was suffering dementia but otherwise healthy, and the doctor said they could place the personality and memories into an implanted computer chip with a neural network identical to a human brain, and that you would not be able to discern the difference, would you do it?

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Harrow said..

If you or a family member was suffering dementia but otherwise healthy, and the doctor said they could place the personality and memories into an implanted computer chip with a neural network identical to a human brain, and that you would not be able to discern the difference, would you do it?

There's an excellent audiobook (no doubt in normal book form too) called 'We are Legion (we are Bob)', which has something similar, but for a different reason. Its a great read/listen.

So, if you are downloaded into a computer, and they could copy you, would you be able to exist in multiple forms? Is it reasonable to have 100's of the same personality, and what value does that really add.

Once the personality is transferred from the brain to a computer, what happens to the brain (i.e. you)... well it dies. The copy of you is fine, but you have died. The copy doesn't feel anything, but the original does, and what have you really achieved?

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FormulaNova said..

Harrow said..

If you or a family member was suffering dementia but otherwise healthy, and the doctor said they could place the personality and memories into an implanted computer chip with a neural network identical to a human brain, and that you would not be able to discern the difference, would you do it?

There's an excellent audiobook (no doubt in normal book form too) called 'We are Legion (we are Bob)', which has something similar, but for a different reason. Its a great read/listen.

So, if you are downloaded into a computer, and they could copy you, would you be able to exist in multiple forms? Is it reasonable to have 100's of the same personality, and what value does that really add.

Once the personality is transferred from the brain to a computer, what happens to the brain (i.e. you)... well it dies. The copy of you is fine, but you have died. The copy doesn't feel anything, but the original does, and what have you really achieved?

Actually, this movie is also has an interesting take on it. I watched it on a plane, so not sure if it ever came out in Australia.

If you like thought provoking psychological sci-fi thrillers, you might enjoy it. "TRANSCENDENCE"

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Harrow said..

I figure if you transplant a brain into another body, the identity remains that of the brain donor.

And why bother to have a brain nowadays? Driverless vehicles. Vehicles with all forms of electronic gadgets that make decisions for you. Sat Nav keeps you on the straight and narrow, sometimes leads you to an wilderness in nowhere too. Kitchen appliances cooks for you. Even better, for a small fee, you can buy diet plans which delivers food to your front door, and promises to keep you healthy and slim.

In my profession, there were claims that programmers will be gone some 15 years ago because new software can write the codes for you. I am still writing codes, and I still f-up at times.

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Mr Milk said..
Telomeres shrink as cells reproduce themselves. So adult DNA is shorter than baby DNA.
On the other hand, I heard something the other day about NADH, which is a B group vitamin, acting to restore telomere length.

nutritionfacts.org/video/telomeres-cap-it-all-off-with-diet/

Humans are aliens anyway.
pretty sure some more aliens will land/crash one day and play with our DNA again. Or maybe we will develop enough to do it to another planet.
i apologise just watched the movie life ( human space ship goes to another planet brings back an organism to the space station before taking it to earth)
cloning is cool we have already done a sheep that was a few years back, admittedly all sheep look the same( unless your from NZ) so I don't know how truthful it was they could of put any sheep in a doco and I would of believed it.
human cloning is a bit more Strange is it really something we want??
I think stem cell research is a good thing and their is merit however it sort of terrifies me when we start playing with DNA or building people, there was a mouse that grew a human ear on it from stem cells ready for harvest.. One ear please sir.....
there are some serious ethical questions.
pretty sure everyone has seen Star Wars and the clone planet, is this where we want to take it?? The comments n man thinks it will be used for good and healing and medicine,,,, but those in power or the military industrial complex probably want a more Star Wars outcome, perfect troops all ready for battle..
thw governmentnin Aus can't even provide electricity so the idea of clone humans does not agree with me.
sort of like nuclear power, in theory it's excellent and on paper it's brilliant..... But in reality it's ****ushima and Chernobyl... Yes there may be a few hundred other examples of success but when it goes bad it goes beyond oh we can just fix that up nothing to see here bad

regarding the apparent scheduled head transplant - if this is even remotely achievable, I wonder why we haven't already heard any great advancement in spinal injury surgery?

btw i haven't read anything about the transplant. the thought is a bit too gruesome if real

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Haircut said..
regarding the apparent scheduled head transplant - if this is even remotely achievable, I wonder why we haven't already heard any great advancement in spinal injury surgery?

btw i haven't read anything about the transplant. the thought is a bit too gruesome if real

I read about the head transplant in the media not so long ago.

I just wonder where they get a donor that has died, but in a situation where the body is still alive, and the body is still okay to use.

It sounds gruesome, but the 'head' suffers from something debilitating, so he doesn't seem to have too many options.

It does sound amazing that they could attach that many nerves, and still have a functioning human.

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Haircut said..
regarding the apparent scheduled head transplant - if this is even remotely achievable, I wonder why we haven't already heard any great advancement in spinal injury surgery?

btw i haven't read anything about the transplant. the thought is a bit too gruesome if real

If somebody has guts of real scientist may look at this video. Head off experiments was done in Russia sometimes ago.
I bet that similar have been made on humans, but for obvious reasons, those videos are not for public viewing.

www.facebook.com/ScienceNaturePage/videos/1027292180736373/