Bush Eater / destroyer ?

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Macroscien > 9 months ago, 31 Jan 2018

cauncy

8407 posts

31 Jan 2018 9:54pm

Anyone else get caught out with the topics heading

sn

2775 posts

31 Jan 2018 10:08pm

that Elon Musk bloke is selling a gizmo that should fix the lantana for you, and if it doesn't work - at least you get to have fun trying.

busterwa

3782 posts

1 Feb 2018 2:00am

Snatch out out with your toyota! Put some character scratches on your bulbar. . Easy!

Mastbender

1972 posts

1 Feb 2018 2:48am

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Macroscien said..

Rails said..
Grazon will kill it without harming pasture
every two months for 6 months and it'll be kindling
cutting will just encourage root growth

I use Roundup now after trying 5x more expensive Bowsaw and similar. There is not much grass left at area infected by lantana anyway.
But after Lantana is killed there is still monstrous skeleton needed to be crush and removed.So I prefer the other way: first mulch it down, then spray.
I am going to buy some parts and build machinery like that:
-horizontal shaft 4 stroke motor 12HP
-Mower disk from rideon mower with swinging blades-clutch,
- some solid steel protection from this rotor
-carriage on wheels
then run/ push this into the bush lump and see what happen .....
.I thought that hammers from flail mower could be better but don't know if could handle lantana branches

Roundup is formulated to work on green foliage only, it will not work on woody stems or tree trunks. It would be a waste to use it after cutting down what ever you want to kill. It only takes a few days for the chemical to go from the green foliage to the root tips, which is what you want. I used Roundup for about 20 years professionally as a landscape contractor, and I still do on my own one acre yard. Bring in the heavy equipment about a week after spraying. Also it is of no risk to the soil or animals, no matter what anyone reads about it on the web, it's been proven safe here in the U.S. after years of controversy.
Modern living through chemistry!

HotBodMon

NSW

612 posts

1 Feb 2018 10:05am

Can we get a photo of the problem area Macro?
Say from up on one of your hills looking down , I'm curious

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

1 Feb 2018 11:36am

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HotBodMon said..
Can we get a photo of the problem area Macro?
Say from up on one of your hills looking down , I'm curious

OK will do this weekend, As usual, I am driving now 300km one way to get the rest on the farm from busy city life every week

The problem is I need to release now more land for grazing cattles,
but they do need - safe fencing- now beside old 4 barbed wires - I am putting to 2 electric wires.Then obviously removing as much lantana as possible from remaining 90 Ha ( 225acres)
Some very easy to access but some not even with ATV.

new grass eaters arrived and need more space to spread the legs.

Sad a bit, they could finish on your table one day too, if you like Angus steak

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

1 Feb 2018 12:27pm

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busterwa said..

Snatch out out with your toyota! Put some character scratches on your bulbar. . Easy!

I did some tests with tiny 18 HP chinese tractor

no problem at all for 520 kg Chinese beast

not lantana exactly and snapped rather than pulled with roots, but at least small tractor proved itself the first time.I did similar test previously with Kubota ride on mower and Honda ATV without any luck.

HotBodMon

NSW

612 posts

1 Feb 2018 1:33pm

Jealous of you Macro, if "Hancock" wins china over you will be sitting pretty.
My girlfriend grows banana's & cattle on large acerage and her formula is the Cruiser/Quick spray/Grazon for most of the part regarding Lantana.
Similar to this generic pic, cept she is way spunkier

I'm quite attached to my Beasts too, This is "Little one" Angus x Limo .
He can almost be ridden soon.. His dad was very tasty

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

1 Feb 2018 12:58pm

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HotBodMon said..
Jealous of you Macro, if "Hancock" wins china over you will be sitting pretty.
My girlfriend grows banana's & cattle on large acerage and her formula is the Cruiser/Quick spray/Grazon for most of the part regarding Lantana.
Similar to this generic pic, cept she is way spunkier

I'm quite attached to my Beasts too, This is "Little one" Angus x Limo .
He can almost be ridden soon.. His dad was very tasty

Yeep, Looks tasty,
I am just in the process of organizing a direct swap of some Chinese tractors onto small Agusses.
You could bread as many Anuses as you want but one female tractor and one male does't yeld any offspring at all. Bigger 50 Hp with a front loader is going for 30 small young cattle swap.anyway to attack those small clump in the front I need different strategy then pulling with small beast.

multiply the problem by 500x or 1000 units of Lantana clamps and you see the problem.

Emeboy

NSW

399 posts

1 Feb 2018 2:11pm

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Macroscien said..

Yeep, Looks tasty,
I am just in the process of organizing a direct swap of some Chinese tractors onto small Agusses.
You could bread as many Anuses as you want but one female tractor and one male does't yeld any offspring at all. Bigger 50 Hp with a front loader is going for 30 small young cattle swap.anyway to attack those small clump in the front I need different strategy then pulling with small beast.

multiply the problem by 500x or 1000 units of Lantana clamps and you see the problem.

Ohhhh I think the auto correct might have got you on this one Macro....

Ian K

4164 posts

1 Feb 2018 12:30pm

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Macroscien said..

busterwa said..

Snatch out out with your toyota! Put some character scratches on your bulbar. . Easy!

I did some tests with tiny 18 HP chinese tractor

no problem at all for 520 kg Chinese beast

For isolated clumps just wander around with a small chainsaw fitted with the longest cutter bar. ( Fisker L98 loppers from bunnings @ $100 are good for < 50mm stems if you don't want to start up the saw.) Paint the stumps straight away with neat roundup (glyphosate 360). You'll do 3 clumps by the time you hitch up the chain and get back on the tractor. Beware that some of the cut up stems left on the ground may take root. Just pull them out by hand a year later. Lantana can get much thicker and harder to handle than that shown in your photos! Get on to it.

I also have spent a bit of time on lantana. We specialised in areas not suitable for large machinery, too steep, too rocky or mixed in with natives that needed preserving.

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

1 Feb 2018 5:42pm

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MIan K said..

Yes, agree, I did try this method too.
Looper is very handy for small clumps.
Chainsaw is even better but very risky. I could cut trees whole day without a problem, but few minutes on the bush and chain is usually off the bar.
Hedge Trimmer from Aldi works well for me most of the time. I will send proper picture presenting problem later on. Usually, clumps are so big and dense that access to the trunk to cut is not possible. Another place, there is not even the clump but continuous wall of lantana bush. Even spraying isn't possible without cutting a path first.
You are also right that for one person walking of the tractor to attach chain is too time to consume.I am thinking to make sort of boom say 3 -5 meters long with a powerful grab. If I attach this to the front of small tractor I could approach clump, hydraulically close that grab on around lantana near the ground and then push with a tractor. Lantana is relatively easy to pull from the ground, so should work.
The matter now is to design this light but powerful grab that could catch lantana around. I imagine that this way I could root lantana clumps completely without leaving tractor, then drive to next one etc.
Cant find proper lightweight grab, so possibly need to make myself. If use electric actuator 12v to close the grab instead hydraulic ram, the design should be even easier. My small Chinese tractor has all hydraulic pump and control, even rams but I think electric could be optimal.
BTW I think that force available with a small tractor will be higher for pushing than pulling. While pushing something tractor tires trying to dig deep into the ground so traction should be much better.
I have been amazed that this tiny tractor pushing against huge tree trunk keep spinning wheels without any sign of overloading. Just keep digging into the ground deeper and deeper.

I may need a miniaturized version of such grapple.

Carantoc

7194 posts

1 Feb 2018 5:43pm

Macro, macro, macro.

Those clumps in the photo would take about 3 seconds with a 50hp tractor and a slasher.

Then wait about 3 months (depending on rainfall) and spray the re-growth with Grazon (Lantana 600 is better but they stopped making it about 7 years ago). Wait another 3 months and reapply - and job done.

Grazon is expensive. But it works. Don't try a Chinese weedkiller from the net. Just get Grazon. Add a surfactant as well. You need very little surfactant, but it makes the Grazon 100% more effective.

The grab system only works removing lantana when on an excavator. It is much slower, but you can get on steeper hills especially when the lantana is so dense you can't actually see just how steep the hill is. You also then have to burn the piles of it.

The tractor is also no good when you come across a fallen tree. Usually a wattle. You need the excavator to stack the timber and burn it when the trees are too big for the tractor to push.

But - most important is not to try to remove the lantana. You need to view it as getting pasture to grow, not as removing lantana. The most important thing is to replace the weeds with something - or they just grow again.

You won't need it for those photos above (there is enough surrounding pasture), but if you clear an area that has no grass then re-seed it with grass.

For SE Qld / Northern NSW clear in August / September. Seed in October/November ready for the summer rains. When you seed use a smudge bar afterwards to go over it to bed the seed in and level out any divots from roots or whatever.

Before you ask : 4 parts annual rye seed (about $30 / 20kg), 4 parts perennial rye (about $60 / 20kg), 1 part Rhodes grass (about $250 / 20kg). Your local CRT bloke is the cheapest. Grass Seed Online.com is OK for the rye (minimum 100kg order). Mackay Grass Seed.com is too expensive for large qtys.

Keep cattle off it for 12 months after seeding. Mow it regularly (each time any weed flowers appear and before they set as seed).

I'll take some photos tomorrow of my tractor, modified lantana slasher, excavator with grab, spray rig, seeder and smudge bar.

Carantoc

7194 posts

1 Feb 2018 5:46pm

One of these would be a better grapple system for a tractor :

www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-74-HEAVY-DUTY-ROOT-RAKE-GRAPPLE-SKIDSTEER-ATTACHMENT-W-TEETH-/251152803796

They come in whatever size you want with whatever hitch you want for your loader.

Plenty of people on the Gold Coast / Yatala make them.

Ian K

4164 posts

1 Feb 2018 5:58pm

Chainsaws, appear risky but safer than driving a car. Needs less skill, be aware of kickback, use steel capped boots and chaps. Don't use a top handle saw, if you need two hands to balance it you'not inclined to cut off fingers. Hedge trimmers are OK up to finger sized stems but then you need a chainsaw for the stumps. A painters plank is handy to throw on light stuff. Gets the twigs out of your face. Walk the plank cutting stems either side with the saw. Long cutter bar on a small saw so you don' t have to lean over. You'll throw chains every now and then and hit old barbed wire. Tree loppers working at height can sharpen saws once a week they tell me. The wood's clean up there , down in the dirt expect 2 or 3 times a day for a touch up sharpen.

With good access you can probably come up with a better way. Can you just drive over it with a tractor a couple of times to access the main stems?

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

1 Feb 2018 8:05pm

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Carantoc said..
Macro, macro, macro.

Those clumps in the photo would take about 3 seconds with a 50hp tractor and a slasher.

Then wait about 3 months (depending on rainfall) and spray the re-growth with Grazon (Lantana 600 is better but they stopped making it about 7 years ago). Wait another 3 months and reapply - and job done.

Grazon is expensive. But it works. Don't try a Chinese weedkiller from the net. Just get Grazon. Add a surfactant as well. You need very little surfactant, but it makes the Grazon 100% more effective.

The grab system only works removing lantana when on an excavator. It is much slower, but you can get on steeper hills especially when the lantana is so dense you can't actually see just how steep the hill is. You also then have to burn the piles of it.

The tractor is also no good when you come across a fallen tree. Usually a wattle. You need the excavator to stack the timber and burn it when the trees are too big for the tractor to push.

But - most important is not to try to remove the lantana. You need to view it as getting pasture to grow, not as removing lantana. The most important thing is to replace the weeds with something - or they just grow again.

You won't need it for those photos above (there is enough surrounding pasture), but if you clear an area that has no grass then re-seed it with grass.

For SE Qld / Northern NSW clear in August / September. Seed in October/November ready for the summer rains. When you seed use a smudge bar afterwards to go over it to bed the seed in and level out any divots from roots or whatever.

Before you ask : 4 parts annual rye seed (about $30 / 20kg), 4 parts perennial rye (about $60 / 20kg), 1 part Rhodes grass (about $250 / 20kg). Your local CRT bloke is the cheapest. Grass Seed Online.com is OK for the rye (minimum 100kg order). Mackay Grass Seed.com is too expensive for large qtys.

Keep cattle off it for 12 months after seeding. Mow it regularly (each time any weed flowers appear and before they set as seed).

I'll take some photos tomorrow of my tractor, modified lantana slashHeritage seedsSardi 10 lucerneer, excavator with grab, spray rig, seeder and smudge bar.

Thanks for all tips, Cranatoc.What do you think about Lucerne? Is it worth the money and extra effort? according to research done by Heritage seeds, this kind suits the best for our near Dalby/ Toowoomba conditions: Sardi 10 .
Do I need also to eradicate first local grass and replace with your specimen? Old grass is tall but doesn't look very tasty for me - as you could see on the picture with my tractor above? Or that is not even eadible grass but weeds ?

My Chinese grass warriors 50HP 4WD and tiny 18 HP -520 kg

Carantoc

7194 posts

1 Feb 2018 6:41pm

My seed mix is just a general purpose all-round pasture fill-in-the gaps type thing. It isn't a cattle specific thing.

If you have local advice don't listen to anything I say. I have 250 acres but I don't really farm it. I just don't like neighbours. So my opinions are just from trial and error from the last 10 years or so.

Kikuyu is popular for cattle around us, but I get the impression it needs more management / maintenance input, grazing rotation etc.

I just want something that is not too expensive, easy to germinate, low on-going maintenance, smother the weeds and OK for horses to turn my lantana cleared hills into pasture. I am not looking for maximum weight gain in beef cattle or anything technical.

I figure the rye is cheap. The annual rye germinates fast and stabilises the soil, but if you seed in October it will be dead by January. The perennial rye germinates slower but lasts "forever". Rhodes has a deep root system so good for hilly areas to help stop erosion. It also looks 'lush' to me and grows pretty quick here, it tends to out grow the rye in some areas, but the seed costs much more per kg. Note however they recommend you seed at a much lower rate per hectare, so the per hectare cost comparison is different to the kg comparison.

I wouldn't get rid of pasture to replace with pasture. If you want to replace it I would just overseed with something. I'd suggest a spike type aerator with seeder box and drag chain behind to overseed. Google "berends aerator" or "agrifarm aerator". I want one, but they are pretty expensive second hand and not many around.

If you overseed once a year for a few years you will eventually replace the pasture without ever having any bare ground. You should still keep the cattle off the seeded areas for a while (6 months ?). They pull the new growth out by the roots.

I get the impression Lucerne is fantastic, but higher maintenance than just rye or something. I did look at having a small Lucerne area and making mini hay bales with it some time ago. Check out the Lucerne hay cost in the ag store or pet store. If I farmed full time I might try it.

Carantoc

7194 posts

1 Feb 2018 6:45pm

It you don't mind saying what age are you buying and then selling your cattle at ?

Are you fattening them for slaughter or just buying at weaner and selling onto feedlot/fattening ?

Are you breading any as well ?

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

1 Feb 2018 8:59pm

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Carantoc said..
It you don't mind saying what age are you buying and then selling your cattle at ?

Are you fattening them for slaughter or just buying at weaner and selling onto feedlot/fattening ?

Are you breading any as well ?

So far I started buying at $850 -900 + GST mark, the cheapest were recently at $720. Total 50 pieces.But looking now for even smaller at $500 as long as weaned, I don't care how small.I think still have a room for 50 -100 more cattle with some supplement feeding support if needed in the dry season.I heard that Barley is most cost-effective as food stock, ( fed as sprouted 5-7 days 6 kg per cattle per day.
I just have them 2 months and see them growing nicely. Some younger, some almost ready for the feedlot. I must say that is the very friendly flock. Anytime I do something they will come close, curious. Last time the lick my Toyota, tasted all my tools in the toolbox, pull and chew on security cameras cables and electric fence solar panels.
Chasing escapes is a fun, counting challenging. So the plan for Saturday _ I am bringing Phantom drone to count them from the air this time.

Mobydisc

NSW

9029 posts

2 Feb 2018 9:34pm

Hi Macro, could you tell me what sort of tractors you have and how they are going?

GreenPat

QLD

4096 posts

2 Feb 2018 10:36pm

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myusernam said..

theDoctor said..

Who else reads macroscien posts in a borat voice...?

I read them in Manuel from faulty towers voice.

I always hear an Italian accent in my head when I'm reading them.

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

4 Feb 2018 10:13pm

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Mobydisc said..
Hi Macro, could you tell me what sort of tractors you have and how they are going?

I have Chinese tractors and I could sincerely say that unless you are DIY tractor mechanic don't buy them. Looks like 20 years old Kubota has more life left then brand new Chinese tractor. It took me half a year to make them going some still plenty work to do around to finish basic configuration after replacing many original parts that don't work on purchased here locally replacements. I hope that at the very end I will have eventually value for money, because indeed there a lot of material and machinery here for cheap, but attention workmanship is none existent. Most electric cable not connected anywhere, bolts loose, never tightened, some parts work other not at all but never been check at manufacture sites - like faulty alternators that never will light the amp meter charger indicator etc.

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

4 Feb 2018 10:21pm

I tought that I will try today last easy piece of equipment designed to cut and clear bushes.

Well, could be good for a small garden to clear some bushes but absolutely not for acreage and definitely completely useless for bigger plot infested by lantana like mine.

busterwa

3782 posts

4 Feb 2018 9:17pm

Got a similar machine mac the tri blade seemed to jamm up a lot on long grass so I ended up going to this one. Lasted a couple of years Dosent like hitting bricks or rocks haha. The get blunt quick to I just give the teeth a lick with the 6 inch grinder This attachment will get thru small branches (not hardwood) up to about 25mm. once I dropped it with that I just clear theh area out and go over it with the ride-on! Get some goats in that paddock They make short work of all that

Mobydisc

NSW

9029 posts

5 Feb 2018 4:27am

I don't think it's right to use goats to clear lantana. Lantana is poisonous.

Thanks for letting me know about the Chinese tractors. I have a small acreage and am thinking of putting it to productive use in the future. It's a long way from where I live though.

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

5 Feb 2018 10:49am

After trying to mulch, cut lantana. pull and spray I have now another idea.If only I can make a machine that will have two slow rotating drums, say 1000 mm long that will catch and pull lantana branches with force.Very slow rotating but with very high torque. This way should be safe from accidental sending projectile into air, less noise, less power needed.
I have similar mulcher for branches, from Aldi.
Do incredible work and is almost completely noiseless. Instead of high-speed blades, there is one star like blade rotating slowly but with unstoppable force. Aldi device may have opened only 10x10 cm , so similar slightly oversized mulcher consisting of 10 x 100 long opening could be ideal to catch the whole clump and suck it in, crunching slowing but mercilessly to the end.

Now I could imagine long rotating drums installed on the front of slow-moving vehicle ( atv or tractor or just self propelled walk behind like mower) . This two drums will catch all bushes in the front and pull with tremendous force.Device looks safe, cheap and efficient (at least in my imagination so far) .

Device similar to that with front designed to pull and chew on soft lantana bushes will be idea for our acrorages , and affordable for everybody pocket.

We should ask our Gardenline engineer to come with us with design to clear our bushes.

FormulaNova

15090 posts

5 Feb 2018 9:23am

Isn't farming the area where lots of people get injured in really bad ways from machinery? Quad bike rollovers, post hole diggers?

I think it would be a good idea to stick to something already on the market, just so that you don't injure yourself.

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

5 Feb 2018 11:33am

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FormulaNova said..
Isn't farming the area where lots of people get injured in really bad ways from machinery? Quad bike rollovers, post hole diggers?

I think it would be a good idea to stick to something already on the market, just so that you don't injure yourself.

You are absolutely right. I am almost guaranteed to hurt myself at any attempt to fix old barbed wire fence.But this is nature of farming, now unless you want to spend a lot of money to replace old technology ( barbed wire ) with new high tensile wire style. Quad bikes are fun and worth a risk. Eventually no more possible to chance for the crash then during windsurfing for serious catapult on turtles or crab pot line.

but weekend on the farm could be fun too

HotBodMon

NSW

612 posts

5 Feb 2018 1:00pm

That's terrible Macro , not one Akubra
Wonder how this would go ?

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

5 Feb 2018 12:06pm

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HotBodMon said..
That's terrible Macro , not one Akubra
Wonder how this would go ?

Yeep, This attachment is what I want in first place.
The version for small tractor will be ideal as spending 30 k on bobcat is not an option yet.

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