So the going rate is $23 an hour(casual) plus super, for horticultural labourers or $874 a week (38hrs)
If I employ a local I take out $139 tax
For a backpacker it's:
Liberal at 19% $166.06
Current proposal at 15% $131.10
Labour, Greens, Jackie Lambie at 10.5 % $91.77 wtf! Seriously, for people who are supposed to be supporting local workers, that's a sick joke.

What should it be? How about 16% which would make it $139.84, pretty close to what locals pay.

the sticky point is they would in most case earn less than the free tax threshold? So ATO would have to refund and they may not be here anymore to do a tax return............ I maybe wrong but is that unfair?

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stoff said..
for people who are supposed to be supporting local workers, that's a sick joke.

Yes, so unfair...Only if the locals want to give these jobs a go. If they do, then there is no need for the backpackers then, innit ? I have done the fruit picking caper for a while. Got ripped off by the farmer ! Found a better job as soon as I could, and got out !

Aussies are reluctant to get out of their comfort zone and travel away from home to work. They are less enthusiastic for the hard work, in poor working conditions, and not very attractive pay. Backpackers are mobile, and are keen to give it a go, just for the experience. Sad about being exploited though.

If they can't sort a fair system out between them, then god help us, we may as well have Trump running the country.

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felixdcat said..
the sticky point is they would in most case earn less than the free tax threshold? So ATO would have to refund and they may not be here anymore to do a tax return............ I maybe wrong but is that unfair?

You can apply for a prorata part year tax evaluation.

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Jupiter said..


Aussies are reluctant to get out of their comfort zone and travel away from home to work. They are less enthusiastic for the hard work, in poor working conditions, and not very attractive pay.

It's hard to understand why more people don't chase fruit picking jobs. Sounds great!

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Shifu said..

Jupiter said..


Aussies are reluctant to get out of their comfort zone and travel away from home to work. They are less enthusiastic for the hard work, in poor working conditions, and not very attractive pay.

It's hard to understand why more people don't chase fruit picking jobs. Sounds great!

and great salary as well! $23-00 per hour less 15% you have to take another 15% for public holiday, sick leave and holiday witch give you the great amount of (drum roll) $ 17-25 per hour ............ I would go for that

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Jupiter said..
Aussies are reluctant to get out of their comfort zone and travel away from home to work. They are less enthusiastic for the hard work, in poor working conditions, and not very attractive pay.

Stop being racist to Aussies

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Shifu said...

Jupiter said..


Aussies are reluctant to get out of their comfort zone and travel away from home to work. They are less enthusiastic for the hard work, in poor working conditions, and not very attractive pay.

It's hard to understand why more people don't chase fruit picking jobs. Sounds great!

Haha

Funny how multinational companies and backpackers are allowed to pay less tax than everyone else. Perhaps the rest of us are just considered to be tax slaves unable to escape the taxes by moving over the border, by our political masters.

How is one considered to be a backpacker for taxation purposes? Perhaps Australian taxpayers should all seek to become backpackers and thus reduce the amount of tax they pay by 20% or more.

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Mobydisc said..
Funny how multinational companies and backpackers are allowed to pay less tax than everyone else. Perhaps the rest of us are just considered to be tax slaves unable to escape the taxes by moving over the border, by our political masters.

How is one considered to be a backpacker for taxation purposes? Perhaps Australian taxpayers should all seek to become backpackers and thus reduce the amount of tax they pay by 20% or more.

Is it as simple as a flat 15% or is it no medicare, no tax free threshold, and the tiers kick in anyway?

Seriously, they are doing work that it appears no one else wants to do, and we actually do need tourism. If you have ever been backpacking you know that its not to make money, its to spend your money doing interesting stuff.

I would say almost categorically that no one does it because they can't get work at home, they do it for the adventure.

I would guess that no one backpacking in Australia leaves with more money than they started with, so its all spent locally anyway.

It sounds like there are a few rorts happening. From hostels that are ripping off tourists, employment agencies that are controlling demand and supply, people that are threatening not to sign of on the regional work unless they get screwed themselves, and generally crap working conditions. Don't pretend there are many Aussies lining up for these jobs as the locals would stand up for their rights, and (some of) the farmers wouldn't employ them.

Its like Trump and the Mexicans. If he does cut off the supply of illegal cheap workers, the USA will feel the affects. Its all nice to say 'we don't want them', but when they are doing the fruit picking for next to nothing, you do actually need them.

As others have said on SMH, screw over a few backpackers that are leaving all their money here and using our tourism services, and giving welfare to the middle class. Awesome. The unfortunate result of trying to do that is you will get no backpacker tourists as it becomes too expensive. It is already an expensive country to visit, so trying to tax them at a higher rate is just going to make them go to NZ or Asia instead. I would.

Perhaps if Australians were allowed to keep their Centrelink benefits and have a low tax rate on whatever they earned picking or chipping, there would be this seeming need for backpackers.

It's a fact those on the lowest incomes have the highest marginal tax rate.

It's time to push up the tax free threshold to something reasonable like $40k a year.

I heard Nick Xenophon banging on about some kind of a pilot scheme to help local unemployed people get assisted into doing a bit of seasonal work.

And I also heard Barnaby Joyce screaming to anybody who would listen that we are in competition with Canada for backpackers who want to try picking cherries. Barnaby, my boy, when it is summer here, their orchards, if they have any, are under ice and snow. I don't think that they are dragging away a whole lot of our backpackers.

I am assuming you meant 'there wouldn't be the need'. Honestly, I think its a tough job, and a lot of people wouldn't want to do it. As you said though, if you could get centrelink and keep it and the income from fruit picking, those that were trying to better themselves could do it. I think its a good idea.

I wouldn't normally do it, although if it was centrelink and the fruit picking income, and I had no other job, I would. The dole is next to nothing and I think it traps some people in poverty.

Has no one here ever visited another country? They are welcome to the crappy jobs that no one here really wants. If taxes were raised on these workers, the supply of labourers would dry up and farmers would be screaming that there was no one to do the job. Right or wrong, the farmers want or need this cheap labour in crappy conditions, and trying to screw a few extra cents out of them is just silly.

As it is, they need to do some work in rural areas to extend their stay, which in itself tells you that there is a need for these workers. If there wasn't, why did the government bring it in in the first place. They would have just let them pick up their jobs in the city.

All this aside, I wonder how much the doubling on this tax would really return to the tax coffers? Even if we assumed that they kept coming to Australia, are there enough of them that it matters?

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Rex said..
If they can't sort a fair system out between them, then god help us, we may as well have Trump running the country.

Pre situation, backpackers were taxed just as locals are taxed.

Proposed;

32% of pay + (9.5%SG x 95%) + 2%ML = 43.025% flat rate of tax. Doesn't include residual 5% super account balance, which no one will recover because its not worth it and the forms are in English. That makes 48.025% wtf!! Did I include super contributions tax, what the hey I will leave it at 48.025%

Effect;

48.025% of nothing, raises nothing in the way revenue. Budget repair fail.

Back packers foolish enough to come to Aus', will be seduced by cash money and blackbirded to a basement in a seedy part of Canberra. Affected employers lose badly and pay a lot less GST and income tax, not to mention lost PAYG on backpacker wages. Knock on multiplier effect is to awful to contemplate. The road to recovery and transition from mining expansion, was being lead by agriculture, hospitality and tourism. All three have been shafted by 18 months of fecking around by those that manage our Commonwealth.

Regardless of compromise outcome, a lot of damage has already been done.

So many backpackers I know of, went on to become full fee paying students in our education sector. I hope we won't be asked to pick up the slack in education funding. I was so much enjoying $3 blueberry punnets from the supermarket..... looks like my next holiday may be overseas.

Time our Parliament was relieved of (a large part of) responsibility for managing revenue and fiscal policy. They are not up to it.

Media failed badly in reporting this issue, so let me fill the void....... Trump as President is not as bad as;

BJ for a deputy PM representing agriculture !?
SM big mouth treasurer, who claims to have answers yet has no eyes or ears
a hogtied PM detained in a basement somewhere, in a shady part of Canberra, a long way from his principles

Look, it's OK. In the end we had a win for the environment. $100 million has been "promised" for the Land Care program. Sure, that's a net loss to the budget, but next year the Treasurer will find a way to reduce funding to match.

Look, fruit picking is crap job, and low pay. I knew because I had a go years ago while going to university. Unfortunately, I got ripped off by the farmer, and ended up with bugger all after a couple of weeks, I bailed out and got a "better" pay job, cash

Such hard work with relatively low pay, meant Aussies can't be bothered. So the backpackers do bother as it is a holiday plus some funds to stretch the holiday dollars further. Farmers needed them, it would be good if some of them stop ripping them off like they did to me. Now the government thought it is a good idea to be seen as protecting jobs for locals, and at the same time, get some extra money for budget repairs. It ended up far from being ideal. The $100 millions it coughed up to satisfy the Greens' demand, meant the budget won't be repaired any time soon. Backpackers still are going to take jobs, crap jobs that is, from locals because Aussies don't want to touch them with a barge pole ! Oh dear...Oh dear !

If the government wanted an easy tax grab why didn't they just tax them at slightly higher than Aussies and just make backpackers forfeit their super? They still go through the rigmarole of making employers collect it deposited etc for what?

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stoff said...
So the going rate is $23 an hour(casual) plus super, for horticultural labourers or $874 a week (38hrs)
If I employ a local I take out $139 tax
For a backpacker it's:
Liberal at 19% $166.06
Current proposal at 15% $131.10
Labour, Greens, Jackie Lambie at 10.5 % $91.77 wtf! Seriously, for people who are supposed to be supporting local workers, that's a sick joke.

What should it be? How about 16% which would make it $139.84, pretty close to what locals pay.

If you were the employer and it wasn't for backpacker you'd be buggered, I know plenty of business owners who struggle to get staff even in a big downturn were having
A weekend in Fremantle a few months ago really brought it home to me, from the esplanade hotel staff, little creatures, cafes, restaurants etc , most were foreign , maybe Australians are a bit slack, great to be treated well by the foreign staff

Point you guys are forgetting is that most backpackers bring their life savings and spend it on the rest of the trip. Working is only a part of the trip.

Backpackers’ average trip expenditure in Australia was $5,759, with $2,914 being spent on food, drink and accommodation. Their average expenditure per night was $69.

So subsidising them to a minor degree, while helping farmers get workers, is a win-win.

/I've also done bananas, sugar cane, passionfruits, pineapples, etc. It's hard work for low pay, and the poor dumb farmboys give the hot foreign girls the easy jobs near them in the forlorn hope that one day they'll be able to convince one to stay and marry them and produce little farm boys with them.

I moved to a rural town several years back and figured if work did ever slow down that fruit picking for a while would be available. Unfortunately work did dry up so I went and signed up with the local employment agency who were happy to take my details, then i heard nothing. When I asked why they said that the farmers were only interested in backpackers & not locals. So it was centrelink for me until work resumed. Now when I hear support your local farmers market, all I can say is **** my local farmer and tax the **** out of the backpackers. Admittedly though, in the past when they did employ locals there was a problem of them not always turning up unlike the tourists.

Couple of smoking back packers called in my cafe today
Tax free

cant imagine where they get a figure like $23 ph for fruit picking. in your dreams!. I recall it always being a hard slog ,low pay. I would travel to SA each year and do 8hrs on a tractor for wages,but also pick sultanas at 33c a bucket before work(4.30am-7.00am) then after work( (4.30pm -8.00pm) that way I could make it worth the trip as long as the farmer let you camp on the property. from memory the NSW and VIC picking areas were really tough as everywhere you went the locals just skimmed off the pickers till it wasnt worth going there.
What gets me is that we elected a government to try and sort out our economy and the best they can do is spend month p*ss ar*ing about achieving nothing then slap a tax on backpackers and clear off for a big long holiday. Pull ya finger out Cantberra

The backpackers are not all stupid. They have been over-declaring their earnings and tax contributions for decades and getting "refunds" way over what they have actually paid in tax for decades.

Tax the backpacker's earnings at a flat rate with no refunds. End of.

Why is there an issue in the first place?? It is because the lousy farmers had an Australian workforce on piece work (paid for productivity) and they got pinged off about how much money they were paying them and as usual went cheapskate and thought if they employ backpackers on $5/hour exploitation rate they would make more money.

The result is now that the farmers are being held to ransom by the picking contractors (mostly Turks) who rake the profits off the top with zero investment. The Turks send their profits back to Turkey for Real Estate investment.

It has now gone political with raving on about how important it is to our economy and how farmers would not be able to harvest their crops without backpackers. What a load of bollocks.

They have created a rod for their own backs through their own lousiness. Labour cost has to be factored into any business model.