Doing business online? Move to Trinidad or better, Thailand

Any ideas about how we can improve speeds? Does a technology called fibre to the premises exist? Help please.

This is download average speeds.

You've already got fiber... perhaps put another bit of tape over the string on the cup?

Select to expand quote

Kamikuza said..
You've already got fiber... perhaps put another bit of tape over the string on the cup?

Hey that's what they do in Vietnam. No wonder their fixed broadband is faster than ours! Thanks!

Select to expand quote

holy guacamole said..

Kamikuza said..
You've already got fiber... perhaps put another bit of tape over the string on the cup?

Hey that's what they do in Vietnam. No wonder their fixed broadband is faster than ours! Thanks!

Welcome I'm pretty experienced with internet in NZ but they use #8 bailing wire.

LOL. Is twine what's in the green nodes, or is it copper as claimed?

Green? That'll be the bubblegum

As always there is a free market answer to how to provide fast Internet.



Of course the free market solution will never happen here. Too many vested interests and too many closed minds who think the only way to fix a problem is to throw tons of tax payers cash at the fix, create a bureaucracy and have highly paid politically appointed bureaucrats to run the fix.

That is the Australian way.

So we have slower Internet than what was considered to be unacceptable in Romania a decade ago and costs Australian consumers a lot more. Plus the State gives itself the power to keep an eye on what Australians do on the Internet, unlike Romania.

If your Netflix is too slow pay the money and get Fibre installed from you home to the node, or curb or where ever it is.

Or you could just complain about and do nothing?

Select to expand quote

bjw said..
If your Netflix is too slow pay the money and get Fibre installed from you home to the node, or curb or where ever it is.

Or you could just complain about and do nothing?

There is no point complaining to a State backed monopoly. My NBN installation is crap with shoddy conduit placement. My complaints to the NBN Co was met with a basic response of "its not our problem". The TIO said if the NBN Co won't help they can't force them to.

One would probably have received similar customer service as a citizen of the Soviet Union making a complaint about the quality of their daily bread ration to the local commissioner for food.

No response from the "worship the State as it's all knowing, all powerful, all wonderful" crowd.

Yeah it sucks when the State takes on responsibility based on scribbling on a beer coaster, & those scribblings don't work out. When the State figures out the best way to fix the problems caused by a State sponsored monopoly is to create a new State sponsored monopoly and waste billions of dollars in the process. Double down on a failure & somehow that will succeed.

Some people should be in gaol along with their assets taken away to pay for the damages they have caused. However in this clown world we live in they are rewarded with generous pensions with early retirement paid by workers who have to work till they die to pay for the stupid decisions.

Select to expand quote

Mobydisc said..
As always there is a free market answer to how to provide fast Internet.

Of course the free market solution will never happen here. Too many vested interests and too many closed minds who think the only way to fix a problem is to throw tons of tax payers cash at the fix, create a bureaucracy and have highly paid politically appointed bureaucrats to run the fix.

That is the Australian way.

So we have slower Internet than what was considered to be unacceptable in Romania a decade ago and costs Australian consumers a lot more. Plus the State gives itself the power to keep an eye on what Australians do on the Internet, unlike Romania.

Moby you don't actually do much research on the stuff you think that the government shouldn't be doing.

Tell me again why Romanian internet is so fast?

Do you think they have a 4G network so that you can setup a webcam on your farm?

Its not rocket science. If you have a high density area where you string out networks, its easy and cheap. If you have no standards and let people string cables from poles to houses, its also cheap. If you don't care about delivering to people in low density areas then its also cheap.

Why is this not easy to research. There is no magic explanation. The NBN was needed because private enterprise will deliver 'fast enough' internet to lots of people in the high density areas and nothing to people in low density. This is all good if you are okay with that and are not in a low density area.

I have been to latin american countries where cable tv and internet is cheap because they just run a new connection from a pole in the street. Its not pretty but it works. Is that what you want?

What about the waste of money that goes into providing clean water? Surely we can outsource that and provide it only to the people in the high density areas too?

Select to expand quote

Mobydisc said..

bjw said..
If your Netflix is too slow pay the money and get Fibre installed from you home to the node, or curb or where ever it is.

Or you could just complain about and do nothing?

There is no point complaining to a State backed monopoly. My NBN installation is crap with shoddy conduit placement. My complaints to the NBN Co was met with a basic response of "its not our problem". The TIO said if the NBN Co won't help they can't force them to.

One would probably have received similar customer service as a citizen of the Soviet Union making a complaint about the quality of their daily bread ration to the local commissioner for food.

isn't it funny. You are comparing Romanian internet where they probably just tie the cable to the roof, and then you are complaining that the NBN is not placing the conduit to suit you. Which one do you want? If you really want, you can pay extra an get the conduit redone, at your own expense, the capitalistic way. You pay, it gets done.

Want fiber to your house, you pay, it can be done.

Want a reliable always-on connection to your house, its probably already there.

Did you watch the video? People are not dying in Romania because someone strung up a cable on a pole. The Internet is fast in Romania because its a free market. If you think you can provide a faster connection at a cheaper price then you can go for it without the fear a telecommunications regulator will send you a notice to cease and desist.

Romanians out in the sticks are getting better Internet connections ten years ago than what we get today in the biggest cities. The Internet on my farm is expensive and over the last six years has gotten worse. That's the NBN for you. You pay more for a worse service. If someone offered a non NBN service they would break a myriad of laws & then end up in court.

Lets talk about Latin America. It's a place full of leftist corrupt governments who always have a go at the Yankees when they fail. The only one that has done okay in the last 40 years had been Chile and even there the lefties are coming back demanding equality. In 2030 Chile will be back where it was in 1973, basically a poor country with declining income, just like its neighbour in Argentina.


In regards to water, plenty of Australians already depend on themselves for water in one way or another. Many don't trust the water coming out of the tap on town water. However yes if the State just provided the water and the roads then it would be okay. We are not talking about water here though. We are talking about the Internet.

Its pretty clear that fifty or sixty billion dollars of tax payers money goes to fund a massive bureaucracy with highly paid jobs and pretty average Internet. Meanwhile in other countries no taxpayers funds are needed to for consumers to have great Internet.

i can't even get connected at our new address. 100kms from the centre of perth, 4 towers in sight, copper into the shed but not connected at the box and they don't connect anymore. talk to NBN and get referred to a website that refers you to a website. not even satellite.

Select to expand quote

landyacht said..
i can't even get connected at our new address. 100kms from the centre of perth, 4 towers in sight, copper into the shed but not connected at the box and they don't connect anymore. talk to NBN and get referred to a website that refers you to a website. not even satellite.

You will have options. Satellite does seem to be the default, but as far as I know, fixed wireless is available in areas too.

What are you getting stuck at when you are trying to get something connected up?

Select to expand quote

Mobydisc said..
Did you watch the video? People are not dying in Romania because someone strung up a cable on a pole. The Internet is fast in Romania because its a free market. If you think you can provide a faster connection at a cheaper price then you can go for it without the fear a telecommunications regulator will send you a notice to cease and desist.

Romanians out in the sticks are getting better Internet connections ten years ago than what we get today in the biggest cities. The Internet on my farm is expensive and over the last six years has gotten worse. That's the NBN for you. You pay more for a worse service. If someone offered a non NBN service they would break a myriad of laws & then end up in court.

Lets talk about Latin America. It's a place full of leftist corrupt governments who always have a go at the Yankees when they fail. The only one that has done okay in the last 40 years had been Chile and even there the lefties are coming back demanding equality. In 2030 Chile will be back where it was in 1973, basically a poor country with declining income, just like its neighbour in Argentina.


In regards to water, plenty of Australians already depend on themselves for water in one way or another. Many don't trust the water coming out of the tap on town water. However yes if the State just provided the water and the roads then it would be okay. We are not talking about water here though. We are talking about the Internet.

Its pretty clear that fifty or sixty billion dollars of tax payers money goes to fund a massive bureaucracy with highly paid jobs and pretty average Internet. Meanwhile in other countries no taxpayers funds are needed to for consumers to have great Internet.

Moby you are arguing that the free market should be free to provide internet when they want, and then arguing that your internet at your farm is getting worse? You are on a farm. Wouldn't your ideals of 'user pays' and 'free market' mean that you get nothing? Your cost per month probably doesn't pay for the infrastructure at all let alone any profit.

If you felt like the market should allow it, try approaching another company and asking about it. You will get nothing. Price up how to delivery it yourself, and you will get nothing.

Which one do you want? A free market or a universal service to everyone? You can't have both as why would anyone want to deliver a universal service to everyone if they cannot subsidise it from the easier services?

Why don't you stand by your convictions and disconnect from your internet at the farm as its not cost effective?

Do you really pay any attention to latin american politics? I would be surprised. I think you are just making assumptions.

Select to expand quote

Mobydisc said..
The Internet on my farm is expensive and over the last six years has gotten worse. That's the NBN for you. You pay more for a worse service. If someone offered a non NBN service they would break a myriad of laws & then end up in court.

Where did you get this little nugget from that a non NBN service would be breaking laws and end up in court? Optus, Telstra and TPG provide them all the time.

If you even spent a minute working out the cost of delivering this stuff you would see that people don't provide it because it does not make money.

For your $80 a month, or even $100 a month, how much cable do you think you could afford to lay to your nearest exchange?

Here's the root cause of why the NBN was a massive f up.

1.- We targeted low density areas 1st. The person responsible for this should really be sent to Business Remedial education. Even the bugs in my garden know you target the largest number of clients 1st, so that they can offset the start up costs.

2.- We had a bunch of idiots realise it was costing too much (bcos they didn't have the customer base to support the cost of the roll out), so they asked some over priced consultants how they could do the roll out on the cheap... and the answer was MTM.

And even as log would know, Buy Cheap, Buy Twice... and ultimately that's what will have to happen.

We should be ripping out all the new and redundant copper Mr Rabbit put in and replacing it with fibre as economic stimulus.

That would be a smart long term investment.

A job's the best welfare.

bono already did this topic...

Select to expand quote

holy guacamole said..
Any ideas about how we can improve speeds?

I think your chart might be a little misleading.

It is for fixed broadband.

In the same website Australia is currently ranked 8th in the world for mobile download speeds, and appears to be one of the very few countries whose mobile speed is faster than its fixed speeds.

So why is mobile faster than fixed ?

-well perhaps this is because the speeds shown in the chart are not what the various networks are capable of supplying, but are what they are supplying across an average customer. And that customer speed is almost exclusively a function of what speed plan people sign up to with their provider.

So it appears Aussies are one of the few nations who pay for fast mobile, but aren't so interested in fast fixed band.


Is this because our mobile network fees are cheap and fixed networks expensive ? Maybe ?

Is this because Aussies just prefer mobile devices over fixed ? Maybe ?

Is this because most Aussies feel the 50Mbps plan from the NBN is adequate and don't pay the extra for the 100Mbps ?

What if there was 75mbps plan on the NBN ?


So, the answer to your question is probably more like "sign up for a faster plan", than "blame somebody for not spending an extra $500bn on 100% FTTP, for people who don't sign up to 100Mbps speeds anyway".

Hence the name of the topic..

Plans and traffic are a side issue with fibre Carantoc. The underlying capacity in fibre built right far outstrips any wireless network capacity.

That's why wireless is underpinned by fibre.

You know only wireless suffers seriously with too much traffic. Photons in fibre don't give a damn about density. They cram in closer.

Copper is even worse.

The bottom line is, the infrastructure bottlenecks set up by introducing a billion dollars of copper was a huge mistake and will require rectifying before long.

Select to expand quote

holy guacamole said..
Hence the name of the topic..

Plans and traffic are a side issue with fibre Carantoc.

You know that when you started your troll post

Select to expand quote

holy guacamole said..
Hence the name of the topic..

Plans and traffic are a side issue with fibre Carantoc.

Maybe you could go start anther thread in HW and have Laurie delete it

Select to expand quote

holy guacamole said..
Hence the name of the topic..

Plans and traffic are a side issue with fibre Carantoc. You know only wireless suffers seriously with too much traffic. Photons in fibre don't give a damn about density. They cram in closer.

The bottom line is, the infrastructure bottlenecks set up by introducing a billion dollars of copper was a huge mistake and will require rectifying before long.

Select to expand quote

holy guacamole said..
Hence the name of the topic..

Plans and traffic are a side issue with fibre Carantoc. The underlying capacity in fibre far outstrips any wireless network capacity.

That's why wireless is underpinned by fibre.

You know only wireless suffers seriously with too much traffic. Photons in fibre don't give a damn about density. They cram in closer.

The bottom line is, the infrastructure bottlenecks set up by introducing a billion dollars of copper was a huge mistake and will require rectifying before long.

Select to expand quote

holy guacamole said..
Hence the name of the topic..

Plans and traffic are a side issue with fibre Carantoc. The underlying capacity in fibre built right far outstrips any wireless network capacity.

That's why wireless is underpinned by fibre.

You know only wireless suffers seriously with too much traffic. Photons in fibre don't give a damn about density. They cram in closer.

Copper is even worse.

The bottom line is, the infrastructure bottlenecks set up by introducing a billion dollars of copper was a huge mistake and will require rectifying before long.

Hey,

HG I was going to respond but between hitting the quote button and typing I see you changed your argument.

I'll leave this and come back when you have finished re-editing your posts 100s of times.

Maybe send me a PM when you are ready ?

Thanks carantoc.

May I suggest you stop behaving like a troll, take a breath, stop hitting refresh and bahave yourself.

If you just let a post lie for more then 10 seconds, you might not get so put out by a harmless edit.

That's why the edit option is there - for editing, not for trolling .

If all else fails, you could simply keep your nasty thoughts to yourself or go back to Heavy Weather and try your luck again with some personal hate topics. Really test Laurie's resolve.

Cheers, HG

This article is a reasonably balanced review of the NBN Co and how as with everything, mixing politics and markets ends up being incredibly messy.

www.mclarenwilliams.com.au/2020/05/09/turnbulls-memoir-silent-on-monopolys-future/

I have basically the same view Malcolm Turnbull had in 2012. He felt the worst way to fix the problems caused by a State backed and funded monopoly, namely Telstra, was to create a new State backed and funded monopoly, called NBN Co.

Unfortunately Malcom completely changed his view in 2013 and came to feel the NBN Co. needed even more protection from competition and funding from the taxpayer.

In regards to my own Internet connection, I feel as I've been a tax payer for such a long time and I don't really claim all that much in return, paying for a subsidised Internet connection provided by NBN Co is not really being too hypocritical. Perhaps it is a little bit though. So I'll wait till there is a reasonably mobile data alternative and I'll go over to it.

As the article explains the way the mobile networks have developed in Australia is a tale of what could have been. Its a tale prices reducing while quality improves as time goes on. Isn't this what technology should be like? However when it comes to the incredibly regulated fixed line data networks we have in Australia, its a story of reduced quality of service at ever increasing prices.

There is a fair chance once a certain number of consumers jump over to the fixed mobile data network product, these products will be either banned or be forced to increase price so they are not price competitive. This is how the market works in Australia. Its regulated to protect vested interests and political decisions made to support those interests. In other words its a scam paid by ignorant tax payers and consumers who have absolutely no idea where their money goes once it leaves their bank accounts.

My copper works ok,

hc internet seems fine too, he has the ability to troll endlessly on here. Does he need more bandwidth for more trolling.

You are free to pay for your own fibre optic cables if you really want to, you really shouldn't be asking the poorest of society to pay for it with their taxes.

Select to expand quote

Mobydisc said..


In regards to my own Internet connection, I feel as I've been a tax payer for such a long time and I don't really claim all that much in return, paying for a subsidised Internet connection provided by NBN Co is not really being too hypocritical. Perhaps it is a little bit though. So I'll wait till there is a reasonably mobile data alternative and I'll go over to it.

You waiting a bit until there is a better alternative is not putting your money where your mouth is, its just taking what you can get when you can get it.

NBNCo is not meant to be the provider, it is meant to create the infrastructure and then any ISPs can use it. I know I use aussiebroadband and as far as I know, they have no private cable runs of their own, except backhaul from NBN. It puts ISPs on a level playing field while still allowing good infrastructure to almost everyone.

If Malcolm and you had their way, Telstra would have run ADSL1 to lots of people, other ISPs wouldn't have seen a benefit to offering ADSL2 because not many people would pay extra for it, so they wouldn't have rolled out DSL2 DSLAMs. We would be stuck. Your 'free market' would then go for the premium customers in the right areas and offer them great services, but if you were more than 3kms from the exchange you would be left with dial-up quality. Wonderful.

If you personally want a 10gigabit connection to your house, you can go out and get it today. Call up TPG and tell them what you want, pay what they want, and you are done. Private enterprise at its finnest. If you want a cheap version of that, go whining to someone else.

I personally use a 25/5Mbps connection. The line is capable of 35/15 or something. What do I care? I don't want to pay extra for bandwidth I don't use. Give me 200Mbps for $5 more and I probably still wouldn't take it. 1000Mbps for $10 more? No, I still don't need it, so why would it matter?

Your understanding of Romania is a bit different to mine. They have run essentially LANs around neighbourhoods, which is cheap, and then joined them up. Try doing that in suburban Australia?

Oh well there is no point arguing about this as the NBN network is here for better or worse. The vested interests will ensure this happens.

It is fairly probable if an alternative comes up that is better than the NBN offering, it will be regulated out of existence.

Its all well and good to say go out and pay money for an alternative to the NBN but what is the point? My taxes have already helped pay for the NBN network. I'm not a huge user of the Internet. If YouTube plays or music streams without buffering then I'm happy. The only online game I play is playable on 128 kB connections.

Select to expand quote

Mobydisc said..
This article is a reasonably balanced review of the NBN Co and how as with everything, mixing politics and markets ends up being incredibly messy.

www.mclarenwilliams.com.au/2020/05/09/turnbulls-memoir-silent-on-monopolys-future/

I have basically the same view Malcolm Turnbull had in 2012. He felt the worst way to fix the problems caused by a State backed and funded monopoly, namely Telstra, was to create a new State backed and funded monopoly, called NBN Co.

Unfortunately Malcom completely changed his view in 2013 and came to feel the NBN Co. needed even more protection from competition and funding from the taxpayer.

In regards to my own Internet connection, I feel as I've been a tax payer for such a long time and I don't really claim all that much in return, paying for a subsidised Internet connection provided by NBN Co is not really being too hypocritical. Perhaps it is a little bit though. So I'll wait till there is a reasonably mobile data alternative and I'll go over to it.

As the article explains the way the mobile networks have developed in Australia is a tale of what could have been. Its a tale prices reducing while quality improves as time goes on. Isn't this what technology should be like? However when it comes to the incredibly regulated fixed line data networks we have in Australia, its a story of reduced quality of service at ever increasing prices.

There is a fair chance once a certain number of consumers jump over to the fixed mobile data network product, these products will be either banned or be forced to increase price so they are not price competitive. This is how the market works in Australia. Its regulated to protect vested interests and political decisions made to support those interests. In other words its a scam paid by ignorant tax payers and consumers who have absolutely no idea where their money goes once it leaves their bank accounts.

Malcolm's been busy rewriting history ever since he left office. With the NBN he took a good idea (with many problems) and totally fecked it with MTM.

You cannot compare mobile to fixed. A "proper" fixed network will be orders of magnitude better than wireless. People with FTTP could easily get 10Gbps services on that fibre today (probably even more). 5G will compete in some areas or product segments, but fixed done right will always be better. To roll out a national wireless network involves cabling up maybe 10,000 radio towers. A national broadband network requires cabling up 10M homes.

The NBN should be considered along side other utilities like electricity, gas, water, sewerage. They are all "natural monopolies" since they are so incredibly expensive to rollout, no private company will do it without the ability to get monopoly returns. They were all mostly built by government weren't they?

I would be pretty pissed off if I was getting FTTN to my house. Yes, you can now apply for the upgrade at your own cost but... I won't move into an FTTN suburb on my next move, and I'm sure there will be others thinking the same. Your FTTN house has just been devalued compared to your FTTP neighbours on the whim of politicians and network planners in a government business entity. Does that seem fair?

Select to expand quote

TonyAbbott said..
You are free to pay for your own fibre optic cables

Not if we want them connected to the NBN, then we need to pay for extra expensive ones, a quote and a rimming.

Select to expand quote

nnnbrewery said..

The NBN should be considered along side other utilities like electricity, gas, water, sewerage. They are all "natural monopolies" since they are so incredibly expensive to rollout, no private company will do it without the ability to get monopoly returns. They were all mostly built by government weren't they?

Natural monopolies are a bit of a myth. Whenever you see an organisation described as a natural monopoly have a look at the laws protecting this organisation from competition. Try to set up your own enterprise competing against a natural monopoly and there is a fair chance you'd end up before a court if you did not cease and desist.

So for example when Australian communities started electrifying it was done by private companies for profit. This was working reasonably well till the State muscled in, banned the private electricity companies and set up county councils to supply electricity. Thus we ended up with huge power stations costing enourmous amounts of money and huge electricity grids. There was a different way it could have worked out but the State did not want it. They wanted centralised systems they could manage and control.

Fortunately through technology there is a fair chance a decentralised electricity system will develop. It is developing. So again there is a fair chance laws will be enacted for decentralised off grid power generation will be forced to be licenced and pay a tax to maintain the centralised grid system & State control.