Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

Sure sounds like you don't like to argue your ideas

Every scientist would love to agree to make mistake or wrong prediction.Imagine that you are astronomer and predicting that this time the biggest asteroid will hit Earth next year and kill everybody and everything.Would he will be happy two years later to say: "You see I was right! Give my my Nobel now! "or quantum physicist that draw formula for CERN to create Black Hole that will suck in everything and everybody?

I have trouble understanding your comments at times, and this is one of those times.

Scientists shouldn't be scared of being wrong. They should be evaluating their ideas as they go in order to not make mistakes, as someone else is going to review it later on anyway.

Why don't you go to Canada and call them idiots for running their HVDC above ground?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_River_DC_Transmission_System

Have you looked at the engineering required to run power cable over some of our terrain? Have you noticed that its not exactly flat, smooth, or easy to dig soil?

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Have you looked at the engineering required to run power cable over some of our terrain? Have you noticed that its not exactly flat, smooth, or easy to dig soil?

Because digging tunnels is completely different pair of shoes , worth to learn on itself.I would expect predict that our FIFTH wonder on Earth wild be hidden and nobody will see anything on the ground.In twenty second century we will learn to dig deep and long.Imagine how beautiful Earth could become again when you replace asphalt / bitumen road with hyper speed underground tunnels.Move all traffic in the city underground, replace busy intersections with grass fields , lawns , trees. Pump the water across Australia , from the sea to the center of continent in underground tunnels / rivers? Why not to do a deal today with Mr Trump president and swap the order for 12 nuclear submarines on 20,200 caterpillar diggers? 50 x F35 plane fighters onto Hyperloop that will move seamlessly , effortlessly people from Sydney to Melbourne in half a hour ? Money change the hands the same, people will have work on both sides of ocean creek. Even more of them you could employ on public works then fit into fighter cabin or undersee coffin.

There you go again. Off on a tangent. Do you ever look at a problem and solve it?

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
There you go again. Off on a tangent. Do you ever look at a problem and solve it?

Yep. I did it once. Almost.When I look first on my farm land newly purchased - lack of water seems to be the problem at the area.So I tought first : if you can not get water from the rain - because is constant drought, can't pump from river or creek - because is none around, suck from wells- not allowed by water right owner sitting 2000 km away.So my first idea was : why to not utilize ancient invention to capture moisture from the air directly? At the night , condense moisture into water on mesh , using breeze alone plus some modern modificationS? What may works in Himalays, Andies or anywhere in the world doesn't work here!Because there is almost no water in our air at all!!
5 to 7% humidity means that you need to employ negative Celsius temperatures to rob our poor air from the last drop of water.At dew point -10C our air is dryer already that one on the Moon.You will suck more of humidity from air and your cattle will dry died while walking like zombie.

www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-06-09/water-harvesting-from-desert-air/9836908
Yep, what a piece of nonsense.
Do that and all living and died creatures at our dry outback will come at night and suck your blood in revenge.So I did change my mind and now I claim that we need more moisture in the air first , before we could attempt to suck it.Misting is my newest friend!

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..


www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-06-09/water-harvesting-from-desert-air/9836908
Yep, what a piece of nonsense.
Do that and all living and died creatures at our dry outback will come at night and suck your blood in revenge.So I did change my mind and now I claim that we need more moisture in the air first , before we could attempt to suck it.Misting is my newest friend!

Isn't that funny. When I read that I thought 'what a good idea'. When you read that you thought 'nonsense'.

Apparently they have even proven that it works. Go figure.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
There you go again. Off on a tangent. Do you ever look at a problem and solve it?

OK lets try again.We have already system for Carbon trading world wide. Australian companies also may pay millions for goverment coffers for polluting world with CO2.But what you could do with this money? Doesn't make sense to capture that CO2 and send back where it comes from because efficiency is negative: yhou will still need to produce more CO2 when trying to capture it.So lets introduce commercial competitive market for those able to supply moisture for our country.If Commercial Industrial misting farm could take free water from sea , convert into moisture and send over our land - will be paid well.Just need to prove it. Government will pay $$$ for every megalitre of water evaporated and send deep inland with air. That is it.Easy money! Then you will have people smarter then me coming with all sorts of ideas to made the process more efficient, send more rain.Just one advice, Insure them against claim of causing flooding and sinking Alice Springs like Venice. You could mark off my project completed while you could sail to Uluru by boat.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Apparently they have even proven that it works. Go figure.

This sounds for me like billionaire stealing from beggar.
Actually it works too.

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..
Yep. I did it once. Almost.When I look first on my farm land newly purchased - lack of water seems to be the problem at the area.So I tought first : if you can not get water from the rain - because is constant drought, can't pump from river or creek - because is none around, suck from wells- not allowed by water right owner sitting 2000 km away.

Just being a pain, but it looks like its a good thing that you couldn't get drought assistance from govco for your property. You went into it knowing you had no access to water, but then lament that you couldn't get assistance?

Before you go off solving other problems, perhaps you need to limit your problem solving attempts at solutions that do not require other problems to be solved first. Sure, removing moisture from the air simply sounds good, but not if you have to start a nation wide attempt at humidifying the air. Especially when you are going to try and do it in coastal areas that probably already have high levels of humidity. I am not sure pumping water into the air in Darwin is going to do much for you and the people of Brisbane may not welcome it either.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

but then lament that you couldn't get assistance?

investing into water tanks seems to be the most rationale in mine situation. If you could capture that water that comes from time to time and store onsite. I have enough rain water for whole year showers, domestic use etc Ifgovernment could support building infrastructure in well , bores, storage -that may mitigate problems some farmer face now.Farmers could do so on their own , and have like me, but by diverting money from other - more needy things - like extra feed for cattle. Government is happy to make subsidy to your own solar panel on your private building - but doesn't contribute to my water storage tank on dry farmland a cent.My water tank 22,500 L now cost $2500 so doesn't seems to be huge sacrifice for government claiming now support in drought relief.To invest 50% in this national treasure - water - $1250.
Similar story with pest control. There is none of subsidy to control Lantana on private lands. Even few dollars or bucket of proper herbicide could help farmers and rest of the country too same time.

Bulk orders for Lantana killers could cut the price from $500 per bucket to more manageable. BUSHFIRES mean mostly LANTANA and similar invasive weeds- rarely native plants.


The another problem is that as new farmer I found that on 20 preparates advertised as Lantana killer 2 does work the rest is just waste of good money. If government agency do provide you one for free that works - it is win win.

Mmmmm different thread.....same crap .

Select to expand quote

kato said..
Mmmmm different thread.....same crap .

Yep, I think we will be talking about Australian bushfires for a long time to come.I mean till Wednesday when big rain is coming.

https://www.facebook.com/deno.budimir/videos/442271213364404/

Since we have this tremendous waste of the water escaping Murray river - the Chinese invention may help to regulate our waterways?

Prescription: Macro, get some fresh air....peace man.

The Bradfield scheme was proposed in 1938.

lets flood central Australia, the investment could not be any worse than NBN.

Select to expand quote

monaro said..
The Bradfield scheme was proposed in 1938.

You are absolutely right, Luckily people didn't found Sydney bridge and Brisbane one, impractical, then send to scrap metal.A project like that once finished could serve as another example of Aussie ingenuity, maybe more even practical then Sydney Opera? Sometimes good ideas need to wait 100 years to come back all guns firing ( ie electric cars) , so let's say at 2038 our grandkids will rediscover Bradfield project and implement with some improvements.

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..

monaro said..
The Bradfield scheme was proposed in 1938.

You are absolutely right, Luckily people didn't found Sydney bridge and Brisbane one, impractical, then send to scrap metal.A project like that once finished could serve as another example of Aussie ingenuity, maybe more even practical then Sydney Opera? Sometimes good ideas need to wait 100 years to come back all guns firing ( ie electric cars) , so let's say at 2038 our grandkids will rediscover Bradfield project and implement with some improvements.

A simple search on the Bradfield Scheme tells you that the water quantities were optimistic and the engineering required was evaluated pretty simply, i.e. its probably not a practical solution.

I wish it was as this sort of infrastructure is a good idea, but it has to at least be feasible.

I went to the Ord river area, and apparently what it was marketed as was 'the food bowl of the north'. What it seems to be used for at the moment is growing sandalwood for export. It seems a bit weird. Is this the best use it can be put to? Is there something else behind it?

For what its worth its a huge amount of water, but it also drops significantly telling you how much water gets lost and how sporadic the rains can be.

Oh no, it seems the Ord river scheme is not really a great success! What happened? You would think its like shooting fish in a barrell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ord_River

"The Ord River Irrigation Scheme was built in stages during the 20th century. Australia's largest artificial lake by volume, Lake Argyle was completed in 1972. It has not been economically successful; $1.45 billion has been spent on the Ord Irrigation Scheme for a return of 17 cents on the dollar, and only 260 jobs created."

I think it just needs a wake park, and then it will be a goer.

Then again, I have been arguing that investing in the car industry leads to other suppliers and more business than you would expect, so I say go for it! It must include wake parks though, as long as they are far enough from salt water crocodiles!

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

evaluated pretty simply, i.e. its probably not a practical solution.

Agree, Our old generation needs to find slippers, had a good rest at night, comfortable defecation the next day, and left that subject to a younger generation to carry about the environment that most likely effects them more than me and you ( and the rest of SB) .
My next proposal could be like that: take good care of all the above 40 and same time cancel all decision rights.
Old creeps should enjoy a comfortable life but have no say what the future can bring.
The point is:
If something is not going to happen in the next 10 -20 - 30 !! years from now, why should we even bother! !?
So my next proposal ( revolutionary a bit one may say) could by take the voting rights of all 50+ over ????
give them all guaranteed pensions and free internet access to the rest of the life but none on influence on world progress.
( as proof you could see now Abbott thing feeding on Greta future at no excuse at all)small addition:
since that, all below 40 are not mature enough to understand the complexity of the world (?) maybe we should leave decisions to AI and take care of all naive human race.

Maybe a bit over 50, since average lifespan is about 85. Say 70, but for SB contributors up to the even 100

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

monaro said..
The Bradfield scheme was proposed in 1938.

You are absolutely right, Luckily people didn't found Sydney bridge and Brisbane one, impractical, then send to scrap metal.A project like that once finished could serve as another example of Aussie ingenuity, maybe more even practical then Sydney Opera? Sometimes good ideas need to wait 100 years to come back all guns firing ( ie electric cars) , so let's say at 2038 our grandkids will rediscover Bradfield project and implement with some improvements.

A simple search on the Bradfield Scheme tells you that the water quantities were optimistic and the engineering required was evaluated pretty simply, i.e. its probably not a practical solution.

I wish it was as this sort of infrastructure is a good idea, but it has to at least be feasible.

I went to the Ord river area, and apparently what it was marketed as was 'the food bowl of the north'. What it seems to be used for at the moment is growing sandalwood for export. It seems a bit weird. Is this the best use it can be put to? Is there something else behind it?

For what its worth its a huge amount of water, but it also drops significantly telling you how much water gets lost and how sporadic the rains can be.

I think it failed because insects couldn't resist the huge amount of food being grown for them

Select to expand quote

Mr Milk said..
Maybe a bit over 50, since average lifespan is about 85. Say 70, but for SB contributors up to the even 100

I know We use to live longer. Some times ago 4o makes you old and elite.
But if you look at those decision making, their horizon hardly extend above their life span.If we do drop plastic bottles into ocean - will it suffocate it in our lifetime?NOt at all
If we do extract everything and burn it as soon as possible - could it effect anymore - not at all in our life span.
So practically me and you and others on SB shouldn't be afraid of anything that the future can bring.
BUT you are not possibly aware of NEW LAW that allows disposing of unhelpful creatures like that.
This new unrelentless/ uncontrolled population range will be politely asked to euthanasia itself legally from now - because you make so much burden on their future.
So lets thin again = you old dude- do you want to contribute to the future or rather create this inconvenient obstacle?

Select to expand quote

Mr Milk said..

FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

monaro said..
The Bradfield scheme was proposed in 1938.

You are absolutely right, Luckily people didn't found Sydney bridge and Brisbane one, impractical, then send to scrap metal.A project like that once finished could serve as another example of Aussie ingenuity, maybe more even practical then Sydney Opera? Sometimes good ideas need to wait 100 years to come back all guns firing ( ie electric cars) , so let's say at 2038 our grandkids will rediscover Bradfield project and implement with some improvements.

A simple search on the Bradfield Scheme tells you that the water quantities were optimistic and the engineering required was evaluated pretty simply, i.e. its probably not a practical solution.

I wish it was as this sort of infrastructure is a good idea, but it has to at least be feasible.

I went to the Ord river area, and apparently what it was marketed as was 'the food bowl of the north'. What it seems to be used for at the moment is growing sandalwood for export. It seems a bit weird. Is this the best use it can be put to? Is there something else behind it?

For what its worth its a huge amount of water, but it also drops significantly telling you how much water gets lost and how sporadic the rains can be.

I think it failed because insects couldn't resist the huge amount of food being grown for them

I wonder if thats a problem these days? You could replace that with another problem.

What program was it recently that showed the south of Spain and all the greenhouses there for food production, with the huge amount of waste plastic left over from these greenhouses. At least that would solve the insect problem and probably also cut down on water usage.

Maybe the only future for water demanding crops is in greenhouses?

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

evaluated pretty simply, i.e. its probably not a practical solution.

Agree, Our old generation needs to find slippers, had a good rest at night, comfortable defecation the next day, and left that subject to a younger generation to carry about the environment that most likely effects them more than me and you ( and the rest of SB) .
My next proposal could be like that: take good care of all the above 40 and same time cancel all decision rights.
Old creeps should enjoy a comfortable life but have no say what the future can bring.
The point is:
If something is not going to happen in the next 10 -20 - 30 !! years from now, why should we even bother! !?
So my next proposal ( revolutionary a bit one may say) could by take the voting rights of all 50+ over ????
give them all guaranteed pensions and free internet access to the rest of the life but none on influence on world progress.
( as proof you could see now Abbott thing feeding on Greta future at no excuse at all)small addition:
since that, all below 40 are not mature enough to understand the complexity of the world (?) maybe we should leave decisions to AI and take care of all naive human race.

Well, to make this all political, we now seem to be trapped into a dream of becoming rich from selling houses to each other, so why would any young people think its a good idea to build water infrastructure? They will just want a deposit or first home owners grant and then forget about the real cause of the problem... just like a lot of people here on SB too.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

evaluated pretty simply, i.e. its probably not a practical solution.

Agree, Our old generation needs to find slippers, had a good rest at night, comfortable defecation the next day, and left that subject to a younger generation to carry about the environment that most likely effects them more than me and you ( and the rest of SB) .
My next proposal could be like that: take good care of all the above 40 and same time cancel all decision rights.
Old creeps should enjoy a comfortable life but have no say what the future can bring.
The point is:
If something is not going to happen in the next 10 -20 - 30 !! years from now, why should we even bother! !?
So my next proposal ( revolutionary a bit one may say) could by take the voting rights of all 50+ over ????
give them all guaranteed pensions and free internet access to the rest of the life but none on influence on world progress.
( as proof you could see now Abbott thing feeding on Greta future at no excuse at all)small addition:
since that, all below 40 are not mature enough to understand the complexity of the world (?) maybe we should leave decisions to AI and take care of all naive human race.

Well, to make this all political, we now seem to be trapped into a dream of becoming rich from selling houses to each other, so why would any young people think its a good idea to build water infrastructure? They will just want a deposit or first home owners grant and then forget about the real cause of the problem... just like a lot of people here on SB too.

Thanks, FN again. That just brought me a new idea? Why do we need to buy property to sell at profit, to make life easier/ Could we invent some other form while people could deposit their money an have their future assured?
Obviously bank interest on cash is not the option as becoming negative and you could not fund your retirement based on that.
All other like stock exchange, forex is already infected wit AI designed to lose your money on an investment ( regardless of what you do) .My personal experience is that I could beat AI on their financial markets but only when I am conscious /alive/ online.
But all those AI trading algorithms now 24/24 365 so en the end they have the edge.

Select to expand quote

Macroscien said..

Agree, Our old generation needs to find slippers, had a good rest at night, comfortable defecation the next day, and left that subject to a younger generation to carry about the environment that most likely effects them more than me and you ( and the rest of SB) .
My next proposal could be like that: take good care of all the above 40 and same time cancel all decision rights.
Old creeps should enjoy a comfortable life but have no say what the future can bring.
The point is:
If something is not going to happen in the next 10 -20 - 30 !! years from now, why should we even bother! !?
So my next proposal ( revolutionary a bit one may say) could by take the voting rights of all 50+ over ????
give them all guaranteed pensions and free internet access to the rest of the life but none on influence on world progress.

heheheh.... comfortable defecation...

I've been saying this for a while now... the future belongs to the yoof and the decisions being made today affect them _far_ more than they will most of the old people who are presently in charge. People who seem more interested in making decisions for the near-term because... you know, they're not going to be around to deal with the consequences personally.

Not sure about 50; that seems pretty quick, but certainly around 65 or retirement age seems good.

They (we) may not have our voting rights then, but we'll still be a large and vocal cohort with spending power (much of the time), so we will still be able to get our voices heard (thank you Alan Jones!)

A little bit late for that in this fire season, but we could be assured the next will be exactly the same if not worse.
Why not to sit now and make plans and order to prepare in advance?
I would recommend make such research :
1) Fire spotting electric drones . Finding fire at early stages not when is 300 km in diameter
2) Electric Drones squads able to water-bomb / water spray instantly.

spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/aerospace/aviation/new-electric-drone-has-groundbreaking-flight-time

Future may show that Helicopters and Planes may not be enough to wind battle against firestorm here in Australia.Helicopters are notoriously expensive to maintain, unlike electric drones that have almost no serviceable parts. Lets imagine 100 strong squadron of electric drones.

Each able to take 500 kg of water from pond, swimming pool, fly few km and drop to return instantly for refill.

Almost completely autonomous , with people on the ground only helping to refill, water , swap electric batteries. US did spend 35 bln dollars on new King helicopter that doesn't work , but for the same money could design electric drones fleet that could win war of fires anywhere in the world.

Humans caused this problem and humans will save us from this problem.

Humans remain the dominant species on earth and will one day tame nature.

Humans are awesome and are farken smart enough to get us out of this mess.

Many untermenschen (sic) and species of animals will become extinct, but the human race will continue to thrive.