You know, for years I had to listen to a mate tell me that 'Fords (Falcons) and Commodores were rubbish and always breaking down'. From my perspective, they were good cars, easy to repair, and parts were cheap. I've had a few falcons, a few commodores, and they were all okay.

I currently have a German made car that has all sorts of dodgy plastic fittings that need to be replaced, and you only read this after you own it and find that your cooling system is a bit of a roulette wheel.

So, has anyone had any really unreliable cars out there? I have been reading about all sorts of problems with Mercedes and BMW that strike you once its out of warranty and these parts start giving up. Which sort of explains why people sell them relatively cheap...

I find this site pretty informative on what it's like for older vehicles

redriven.com/
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDb4T9K6MhI5AqAcADZ6uBxXf7SdG-Btz

I wouldn't say so, i've certainly had parts need replacing on them, probably 1 problem per car on average, but no real stand out problem cars.

I have had two Mercs. Both 2002-3 era. Despite being from the dark years when Chrysler had an influence on manufacturing, both have been reliable high mileage vehicles. I sold the C Class recently with over 400k on the clock. Stuff wore out but nothing catastrophic. There were some overly complicated design and engineering solutions that made maintaining relatively basic things meant more time mastering my YouTube Mechanic skills. But when I sold it, there were zero diagnostic faults, just a battering from carpark trolleys, door dings and a love tap from a kangaroo. The second Merc I still have. It has close to 300k on the clock. The hardest working part on the car is the fuel pump, and that has pooped itself. But otherwise just routine service stuff every 20k.

Somewhat bizarrely, the worst car we have had was a Toyota Camry. Even the dealer admitted it was a Friday afternoon in Altona when ours was made.

Will never buy another Audi (AKA VW/Skoda etc.). This was a 2013 A4. Had the same russion roulette with the cooling system (replaced header tank and several plastic hoses and connectors). Burned oil big time (>1L/1000kms) due to oil control ring design. Many electrical issues with engine (replaced sensors, actuators for boost control. cam control etc.). Water pump. Rattlling DSG dual mass flywheel that was about to go when I ditched it. Front suspension arm bushs. Owned around 7 years from 50k to 200k kms and had something go wrong at least every 3 months. I fixed everything myself at much cheaper than paying someone to do it. I reckon I would have payed twice what I payed for the car if getting a dealer to do the repairs. But when running correctly, it was nice to drive.

We had previously owned an A3 for maybe 50k kms and had a few issues with that. Should have learned from that and not got another.

little green puddle under your subaru is a most annoying feature

I am now reminiscing way back. I had a Saab from the late 80's. It was a fab and quirky car. It was so good at the time, I thought getting a close to current model for my wife and young family would be a good idea. We got a low mileage car that was a product of GM's acquisition of Saab. The GM engine died on the highway, leaving us stranded on a hot Sunday afternoon with grumpy little peeps in the back. That was the last we saw of that car, the engine repair was so costly it was written off...

I wandered what happened to the Saab.
Was the Triumph before or after? I just remember the trail of white paint down the road.

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vosadrian said..
Will never buy another Audi (AKA VW/Skoda etc.). This was a 2013 A4. Had the same russion roulette with the cooling system (replaced header tank and several plastic hoses and connectors).

I am going through this on a Volvo at the moment. It's not even a classic Volvo, but one of the ones made by/with Ford when Ford owned Volvo a while back. Nice cars to drive but you wouldn't want to be paying a dealer to fix them.

Ford used their parts and also a few Volvo parts in these. You can sort of understand it as they are bringing costs down and in reality the car needs to see them through the warranty period and not much more. But... the coolant tank needs regular replacement, the fittings to the heater need regular replacement, the top radiator hose is some complex piece of artistry and buried underneath heaps of stuff, and the worst thing is that most of these fittings are fine until you go near them and then they break. If you aren't prepared you could get caught out without the right parts at hand.

Unsurprisingly you see a few of these era Ford/Volvo cars at the wreckers with overheated engines, no doubt because of these types of fittings. Then I started to read up on these same problems with Mercedes and the like, so it seems no brand is immune.

I think Ford Australia got a bit of a bad wrap. They have had some bad designs, but I don't think they were anywhere near the short-term nature of these Euro cars.

My worst car was my first, a 900cc Triumph Herald.
The rear end wasn't designed for a 17yr old lead foot.
Snapped both half axles in the diff at different times.
The independent rear suspension also hadn't been engineered very well. the transverse spring had a different pivot point to the axles.
So the wheel bearing moved on the axle and the brake drum scraped on back plate, made a lovely racket and wasn't easy to fix. It also had cooling problems in our heat, especially going up hills.
Lost a lot of money on that when I sold it.
Strangely enough I saw it about 4 years later in the middle of the Nullabor, the barmaid that owned it said it was going well. I assume she drove a lot different to me!

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decrepit said..
I wandered what happened to the Saab.
Was the Triumph before or after? I just remember the trail of white paint down the road.

I regret selling my Saab, it was superb. Wifey's newer GM-Saab was insipid rubbish. I don't however, regret giving away my Trumpy. Having said that, I believe it has been fully restored and has been seen with the original plates on the freeway. It was sort of lackadaisically 'assembled' by Leyland Australia, I learned a lot by reassembling it with the right bits in the right order. Its ride and handling was a magnitude better than any comparable Aus offering in the 70's. It was however crippled by the poor build quality, twin carbs that I could not for the life of me ever get right, and a couple of manufacturing and/or engineering cost cutting decisions by Triumph. It always started and ran. It also always had something wrong at the same time. It started my love affair with Pininfarina and Michelotti styling, and back to FN's post, the importance of build quality and control (aka Japanese manufacturing)

Jeep = Just Empty Every Pocket
Had a Grand Cherokee and it was great for 3 years. AC system pooped itself still under warranty (thankfully) then after that was fixed, random warning lights started coming on. Sold straight way.
The V6 diesel is a nice motor, but the rest leaves a great deal to worry about.

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FormulaNova said..

vosadrian said..
Will never buy another Audi (AKA VW/Skoda etc.). This was a 2013 A4. Had the same russion roulette with the cooling system (replaced header tank and several plastic hoses and connectors).

I am going through this on a Volvo at the moment. It's not even a classic Volvo, but one of the ones made by/with Ford when Ford owned Volvo a while back. Nice cars to drive but you wouldn't want to be paying a dealer to fix them.

Ford used their parts and also a few Volvo parts in these. You can sort of understand it as they are bringing costs down and in reality the car needs to see them through the warranty period and not much more. But... the coolant tank needs regular replacement, the fittings to the heater need regular replacement, the top radiator hose is some complex piece of artistry and buried underneath heaps of stuff, and the worst thing is that most of these fittings are fine until you go near them and then they break. If you aren't prepared you could get caught out without the right parts at hand.

Unsurprisingly you see a few of these era Ford/Volvo cars at the wreckers with overheated engines, no doubt because of these types of fittings. Then I started to read up on these same problems with Mercedes and the like, so it seems no brand is immune.

I think Ford Australia got a bit of a bad wrap. They have had some bad designs, but I don't think they were anywhere near the short-term nature of these Euro cars.

Same with the Audi.... moulded plastic hoses that would go brittle with heat cycles over time. They would probably last a long time if never touched..... but inevitably something else would fail, and to fix that you had to unclip a line or flex it slightly out of the way, and then they crack. Several times I started a job with economically sourced parts from overseas, but could not get the car back on the road without a trip to Audi and a few days wait to get a replacement moulded plastic hose that is specific to that model car. A few hoses on that car replaced with rubber equivalents and a clamp onto the plastic that held.

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FormulaNova said..

vosadrian said..
Will never buy another Audi (AKA VW/Skoda etc.). This was a 2013 A4. Had the same russion roulette with the cooling system (replaced header tank and several plastic hoses and connectors).

I am going through this on a Volvo at the moment. It's not even a classic Volvo, but one of the ones made by/with Ford when Ford owned Volvo a while back. Nice cars to drive but you wouldn't want to be paying a dealer to fix them.

Ford used their parts and also a few Volvo parts in these. You can sort of understand it as they are bringing costs down and in reality the car needs to see them through the warranty period and not much more. But... the coolant tank needs regular replacement, the fittings to the heater need regular replacement, the top radiator hose is some complex piece of artistry and buried underneath heaps of stuff, and the worst thing is that most of these fittings are fine until you go near them and then they break. If you aren't prepared you could get caught out without the right parts at hand.

Unsurprisingly you see a few of these era Ford/Volvo cars at the wreckers with overheated engines, no doubt because of these types of fittings. Then I started to read up on these same problems with Mercedes and the like, so it seems no brand is immune.

I think Ford Australia got a bit of a bad wrap. They have had some bad designs, but I don't think they were anywhere near the short-term nature of these Euro cars.

Same with the Audi.... moulded plastic hoses that would go brittle with heat cycles over time. They would probably last a long time if never touched..... but inevitably something else would fail, and to fix that you had to unclip a line or flex it slightly out of the way, and then they crack. Several times I started a job with economically sourced parts from overseas, but could not get the car back on the road without a trip to Audi and a few days wait to get a replacement moulded plastic hose that is specific to that model car. A few hoses on that car replaced with rubber equivalents and a clamp onto the plastic that held.

Many years of driving Falcons and Commodores for work and the amount of little things that fail are ridiculous. Just interior trim coming loose etc, but good solid motors for a long time

Worst ever - Ford Territory. You'd think it was an SUV version of a Falcon and thus with the longevity that taxis enjoy. Nup. Enormous amounts of electrical gremlins and the mystery of ball joints designed upside down so a failure doesn't just men knocking and replace it - they're in tension nor compression under load so they disintegrate and front wheel/hub just falls off. That major fail in design was inexcusable.

Reliability - Subaru, Honda, Toyota. Parts a bit pricey but they just don't go wrong. (2.5L subi head/cooling problems fixed after the 2011-2012 drama.) I've had things that are always gone at 100,000km or 200,000km still fine on my Liberty. Only thing is with that boxer motor, oil sits in the bottom galleries after running, not draining to the sump 100% like other cars so it is prone to blockages / varnish buildup IF you are lazy and don't change oil enough. Its $60 and 15mins so don't run it out to 10,000km per change and she's apples.

Bloody disgrace - Mitsubishi oil burning from worn out valve stem seals. Sigmas did it. Magnas did it.... the newer 3L Challenger and Triton did it. At what point in the 30 damn years of using that same little bit do you think hmmm lets just do what others do, so it won't start using oil after about 150,000km?

More irks - euro cars with weird cooling systems - son had an Astra and when it was littttle dodgy for cooling I told him to keep an eye on the gauge - doesn't have one! Good onya Holden Australia for rebadging a damn Vauxhall

How's the Kia Stinger.... alternator sits under the turbo so you can't get to it. To change a $300 alternator it is engine removal by dropping it out the bottom. Gobsmacked. VW Toerag is similar issues I believe

Had a Ford Territory for years and it didnt miss a beat.

EA Falcon on the other hand..

All my Ford's I owned were pretty crap. Falcon, Cortina and a Capri. Interiors fell apart, rust and all sorts of mechanical issues. Had a Toyota Celica, an 80s mercedes and an 2006 A3 Audi that were better, but had issues with interiors and rust. Audi had unknown electrical issues and I couldn't get it roadworthied.

Best cars was a 2001 5 series BMW that I drove for around a decade or more, it sat outside the whole time. Only major issue I had was paint started to fade. I now have a 2001 Porsche Boxter, paid $20k for it 5 years ago. Such an impressive car for its age and could sell it for more than I paid for it.

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vosadrian said..
Same with the Audi.... moulded plastic hoses that would go brittle with heat cycles over time. They would probably last a long time if never touched..... but inevitably something else would fail, and to fix that you had to unclip a line or flex it slightly out of the way, and then they crack. Several times I started a job with economically sourced parts from overseas, but could not get the car back on the road without a trip to Audi and a few days wait to get a replacement moulded plastic hose that is specific to that model car. A few hoses on that car replaced with rubber equivalents and a clamp onto the plastic that held.

Yeah, same problem. I was complaining before that the Turbo FG falcon I have has a metal pipe with a couple of o-rings for sealing. It's a pain when it starts to leak, but at least they leak rather than suddenly explode when they let go. The Volvo has this complex 5-ended hose that can fail without you noticing it before its too late. I prefer Ford Australia's approach.

With this Volvo I am waiting on a few parts from Aliexpress to change some of the fittings to aluminium so that I can use regular hoses and hose clamps. The original fitting just crumbled in my hand when I tried to remove it after the other end broke spontaneously. If I replaced it with the original it might last the life of the car (another 10 years?), but I would rather change it to something that I know is going to last a long time.

It really makes you wonder how these cars go at the dealerships. Do they replace what they need to and you walk away $300 lighter each time, many times, or do they sit down and tell you that its a losing race and that you really should get rid of the car?

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fangman said..
It started my love affair with Pininfarina and Michelotti styling, and back to FN's post, the importance of build quality and control (aka Japanese manufacturing)

It seems that Germans design things to work well but require a perfect environment, but the Japanese design things to cope with a certain amount of abuse.

I lived in a 80 series landcruiser i lived in a mitsi solara sedan ive lived in a holden commodore wagon ie lived in a honda odyssey ive lived somehow in a terios ive lived in toyots hiace

Order of livavility goes terios , 80 series , solara , odyssey, commo , hiace

I've had a heap of Subarus and they've generally been excellent.

The recent models, say 2015 onwards have a design flaw where leaving the tailgate open sucks the power out of the battery.

If you leave the tailgate open because you forgot to close it in the garage after unloading gear, or a pocket press of the fob button, the battery will be flat by morning, or even a few hours later. Flat means down to around 10v, which is not enough to start the car or operate the power tailgate.

It seems to get worse with time so that leaving the tailgate open while rigging gear, and packing up after a session, is enough to drain the battery. Say 40 minutes total time with the tailgate open is enough. I now carry a jump start battery which I use every couple of months, and I own a battery charger, neither of which have been necessary in the previous decades of driving.

Subaru do not reply to emails asking about the problem. The dealer guys have no idea, but they have replaced a battery under warranty. I can think of at least three Subarus I have owned that have the problem.

I've investigated alternative batteries to see if I can get any benefit but nothing really addresses the issue. It's possible that there's some intersecting problems that contribute to the end result (short km driving, bad luck with batteries, tailgate drawing power)

Sometimes it works fine, then I'll go into the garage late at night and find the tailgate open and the battery is flat. Strangely, a jump start and a 10km drive is enough to charge it up again. Running the battery charger to full doesn't make it more robust.

Turn off the interior light in the boot.?

I am soooo helpful

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Gorgo said..
....

I've investigated alternative batteries to see if I can get any benefit but nothing really addresses the issue. It's possible that there's some intersecting problems that contribute to the end result (short km driving, bad luck with batteries, tailgate drawing power)

Sometimes it works fine, then I'll go into the garage late at night and find the tailgate open and the battery is flat. Strangely, a jump start and a 10km drive is enough to charge it up again. Running the battery charger to full doesn't make it more robust.

You could do what I did to try and avoid a similar problem; swap the interior light, at least for the cargo area, to LED lights. Sure, it will still drain your battery but a lot less and probably with better illumination.

But in your case, is it the light or something else that draws power when the tailgate is open?

If it is the light bulb, then Jaycar sell a generic kit that might work for you. You can buy these very cheaply on ebay too.

Had a series 2 swb landrover as a teenager, no roof, huge wheels, cherry red with lots of chromed bits and black bull bar and roll bar, varnished wooden dash, 186 Holden, 4 barrel holley, racing cam, extractors etc etc.

Looked great, sounded great.

Wheels were so big the arches were cut out, whenever it rained the tyres would direct water onto the dizzy cap and it would stop.

Cam shaft was geared for top end, made it gutless down low so useless for off road.

Wouldn't steer straight and the sports steering wheel would get ripped out of your hands over any rough stuff.

Indicator wiring caught fire at Noosa and melted down due to no fuse, engine bay caught fire at Nerang due to a battery lead resting on an extractor. Would regularly jump out 2wd on the highway and make a horrible grinding noise as it went, ended up jamming a bit of 4x2 against the gear lever to hold it in place.

Blew a welsh plug and overheated the engine, the temp gauge didn't work, blew a hole in a cylinder.

Hot it fixed and sold it. The guy I sold it to owned his own business, he put a heap more money into it but I do t think it became any more reliable.

Still got a thing for old landrovers but never bought another one

Had a series 2 swb landrover as a teenager, no roof, huge wheels, cherry red with lots of chromed bits and black bull bar and roll bar, varnished wooden dash, 186 Holden, 4 barrel holley, racing cam, extractors etc etc.

Looked great, sounded great.

Wheels were so big the arches were cut out, whenever it rained the tyres would direct water onto the dizzy cap and it would stop.

Cam shaft was geared for top end, made it gutless down low so useless for off road.

Wouldn't steer straight and the sports steering wheel would get ripped out of your hands over any rough stuff.

Indicator wiring caught fire at Noosa and melted down due to no fuse, engine bay caught fire at Nerang due to a battery lead resting on an extractor. Would regularly jump out 2wd on the highway and make a horrible grinding noise as it went, ended up jamming a bit of 4x2 against the gear lever to hold it in place.

Blew a welsh plug and overheated the engine, the temp gauge didn't work, blew a hole in a cylinder.

Hot it fixed and sold it. The guy I sold it to owned his own business, he put a heap more money into it but I do t think it became any more reliable.

Still got a thing for old landrovers but never bought another one

De ja vu.

I've had series 1, 2 & 3 land rovers and the only one that was a pain was one that had a Holden motor. ( had lots of Holden motors & liked em but not suited to the LR)The 4 cylinder rover could be made near submersible with a rubber glove & 6 cable ties. Worst car Austin 1800

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FormulaNova said..

...

You could do what I did to try and avoid a similar problem; swap the interior light, at least for the cargo area, to LED lights. Sure, it will still drain your battery but a lot less and probably with better illumination.

But in your case, is it the light or something else that draws power when the tailgate is open?

If it is the light bulb, then Jaycar sell a generic kit that might work for you. You can buy these very cheaply on ebay too.

I did all those things and a few more. The thing in the lock probably works but is not at all practical.

I have turned off all the lights. The only thing illuminated is the dash display showing the tail gate open. The bizarre thing is that Subarus have a battery saving function where they turn any lights off even if the switches are in the on position. They did all that but didn't include the dash display.

The only thing I haven't done is to check for parasitic discharge from the battery.

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woko said..
I've had series 1, 2 & 3 land rovers and the only one that was a pain was one that had a Holden motor. ( had lots of Holden motors & liked em but not suited to the LR)The 4 cylinder rover could be made near submersible with a rubber glove & 6 cable ties. Worst car Austin 1800

Sounds like you bought cammd's one

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Gorgo said..

FormulaNova said..

...

You could do what I did to try and avoid a similar problem; swap the interior light, at least for the cargo area, to LED lights. Sure, it will still drain your battery but a lot less and probably with better illumination.

But in your case, is it the light or something else that draws power when the tailgate is open?

If it is the light bulb, then Jaycar sell a generic kit that might work for you. You can buy these very cheaply on ebay too.

I did all those things and a few more. The thing in the lock probably works but is not at all practical.

I have turned off all the lights. The only thing illuminated is the dash display showing the tail gate open. The bizarre thing is that Subarus have a battery saving function where they turn any lights off even if the switches are in the on position. They did all that but didn't include the dash display.

The only thing I haven't done is to check for parasitic discharge from the battery.

I have never owned a Subaru, but when you google that problem it seems common enough and seems to be the car is powering something or other in anticipation of opening or closing the tailgate. It's probably just something they never anticipated owners doing for long periods of time. A bit of a mistake by the sounds of it.

The carabiner thing is awkward, but you can understand that its just a way of fooling the car into thinking it is closed. I would prefer doing that than mucking around with a jump starter pack. Maybe attaching a bungie cord to it just so that I don't forget its there.

Never had this problem on a commodore or falcon tailgate Then again, they weren't automatic tailgates either. For some people, if it were a problem on falcons or commodores it would be 'what sort of rubbish cars do we make', but most makes have problems that you are not aware of unless you own one.

The carabiner thing reminds me of the trick with a Bunnings hanging basket hook about 15-25cm long. put a 90deg twist in it and it will hook onto the tailgate and the latch so you can lock the tailgate open a bit (for air circulation but nobody can get into it). Great for us with continually wet rear ends.....
Would fix the Subi issue