I'm looking at buying a laptop.

Thing is I'm kind of computer illiterate. I use to wear it as a badge of honour. But the world ain't changing and I'm sick of asking my teenage nephew how to do things.

Looking to self learn things like softwear, programing, coding, websites etc.

Not wanting to play games, edit photos/videos.

From my wanderings online it seems I want something like a Lenovo Thinkpad T-series. Any other recommendations to suss out?

No more then 2ish grand to spend.

I can suggest MacBook air. Only because viruses usually target PCs. And the current model is twice as good as the old one.
But I'm far from a tech head, just happy to avoid problems and slowness

^^^This. I'm no anti-microsoft nut, nor do I deny Apples control over its owners, but apple just works and connects and requires no stress or antivirus stuff.
I lost all my photos when my last non apple PC crashed years ago with my epic Bali shots and kids photos. Wifey was well pissed! Backups didn't save my skin.
If it costs you more that anPC, you'll surely save in the long run.

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Mrknownothing said.. >>>I'm looking at buying a laptop. >>Looking to self learn things like softwear, programing, coding, websites etc.

Not wanting to play games, edit photos/videos.

From my wanderings online it seems I want something like a Lenovo Thinkpad T-series. Any other recommendations to suss out?

No more then 2ish grand to spend.

In that case, think about linux mint. I have a Lenovo Thinkpad, not sure of the model but I got it cheap, refurbished. Linux works great on it. Some laptops have driver problems with drivers for wifi cards.
Have a look at the beginners forum here, if you are interested.
forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=90&sid=62d6a0ce24ed240cf34bdfeaa7860295

I'm not sure how you'd go with apple, ones I've looked I can't find the command console. It's designed to do everything for you, bad luck if you want to do something yourself.
Windows is heading the same way, plus it's got all the virus problems.
Linux is opensource software, not troubled by viruses and you are in control.

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Buster fin said..
apple just works

Except when it doesn't. And then it's a real headache to fix, and possibly expensive.

Mrknownothing, just to add to what decrepit said. I recommend contacting your local TAFE and see if there is a self paced introduction to IT short course (20-40 hours contact time) that you can do after work. This will be a good springboard. It's a bit of a mess learning technology. A TAFE course will give this learning structure. After you complete a basic intro course, then decide what type of notebook you think you need. Good luck

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decrepit said..

I'm not sure how you'd go with apple, ones I've looked I can't find the command console.

'Terminal' is the app you're looking for. If you want to get into coding easily, get yourself a macbook air m1, download xcode and follow the
step-by-step, can be coding your own apps in no time with limited knowledge.

Bonus - as well as being blazingly fast, its absolutely silent and runs cold. My work surface laptop now drives me me mental with the fan noise, never noticed it until i had a completely silent laptop!

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Mrknownothing said.. Any technology nerds on here?

Well here I am, surprised you didn't ask me first


There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

+1 for MacBook Air, it just works.
Can't see how an average punter would need more tech, battery life/ processing speed on the new model is insane!

Post this in the Gps and speed talk thread of windsurfing, tech gurus galore there!

I want a Mac with M1 chip.

The chips and hardware are undoubtly so far ahead of anything else, it seems silly to spend money on anything else at the moment.

Plus I can get one for couple hundred bucks with various points from various things I have collected.

- but I don't know if I can live with Apple. I so want it to not bother me, but.....




So I went to YouTube to see what other peoples experiences are.

Found a random video where a self confessed Windows nerd tried Apple.

And another random video (unconnected) where an Apple devotee tried to live with Windows.


The Windows dude loved apple, except he didn't. I don't recall the exact specifics but he had so many little things that were second nature in Windows that you simply can't do in Apple. One I think was check the transfer speed when you are copying files. Windows you just expand the box and it tells you. He was transferring large video and sound files but on Apple there is no function to check the transfer speed, so he didn't know if the USB3 or multi-core or something was OK. Another thing was multi-screens and how the desktop functioned on them and how you flipped between apps on multi screen. Windows you had 1,000 options of how you wanted it to look, Apple made it hard and also the method of going between apps was inconsistent, plus it had no options at all for customizing it.

He concluded he loved it, but it was so frustrating that it didn't really work how he wanted it to work and he couldn't live with it.


The Apple dude using Windows also loved it, except he didn't. He loved that the pop-up windows had curvey corners. That made him conclude it was cool, but as it wasn't apple he didn't want it.



Kinda told me what I suspected.

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Mark _australia said..
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

No that's hexadecimal

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decrepit said..

Mrknownothing said.. >>>I'm looking at buying a laptop. >>Looking to self learn things like softwear, programing, coding, websites etc.

Not wanting to play games, edit photos/videos.

From my wanderings online it seems I want something like a Lenovo Thinkpad T-series. Any other recommendations to suss out?

No more then 2ish grand to spend.

In that case, think about linux mint. I have a Lenovo Thinkpad, not sure of the model but I got it cheap, refurbished. Linux works great on it. Some laptops have driver problems with drivers for wifi cards.
Have a look at the beginners forum here, if you are interested.
forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=90&sid=62d6a0ce24ed240cf34bdfeaa7860295

I'm not sure how you'd go with apple, ones I've looked I can't find the command console. It's designed to do everything for you, bad luck if you want to do something yourself.
Windows is heading the same way, plus it's got all the virus problems.
Linux is opensource software, not troubled by viruses and you are in control.

MacOS is Unix. It's widely acknowledged as a posh Linux.

You can get viruses on a Linux machine, of course. And on Apple too.

e.g. The command console in MacOS is Terminal. Command + Space > 'Ter,,,' > Enter. (I've actually never tried Command + 't)

e,g, You'll notice that the 'Settings' on MacOS and Linux look pretty much exactly the same. (God help me in Windows)

e.g. If you close all an application's windows, the app is still running. Same as Linux.

e.g. There's no 'Start' button (unless Mint).

You'll see MacOS listed here as POSIX Compliant:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX#POSIX-oriented_operating_systems

BTW I'm writing this on a Linux machine, no real preference except I like the Apple ecosystem.

I second the MacBook Air. Best bang for buck out there, by far. The M1 chip is an actual, real, not hyperbole, game changer.

Unless you want to restore an old laptop (like this one) with a version of Linux, which can be quite tricky depending on the hardware. I wouldn't envy a beginner getting an unsupported WiFi adapter to work.

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Carantoc said..
I want a Mac with M1 chip.

The chips and hardware are undoubtly so far ahead of anything else, it seems silly to spend money on anything else at the moment.

Plus I can get one for couple hundred bucks with various points from various things I have collected.

- but I don't know if I can live with Apple. I so want it to not bother me, but.....




So I went to YouTube to see what other peoples experiences are.

Found a random video where a self confessed Windows nerd tried Apple.

And another random video (unconnected) where an Apple devotee tried to live with Windows.


The Windows dude loved apple, except he didn't. I don't recall the exact specifics but he had so many little things that were second nature in Windows that you simply can't do in Apple. One I think was check the transfer speed when you are copying files. Windows you just expand the box and it tells you. He was transferring large video and sound files but on Apple there is no function to check the transfer speed, so he didn't know if the USB3 or multi-core or something was OK. Another thing was multi-screens and how the desktop functioned on them and how you flipped between apps on multi screen. Windows you had 1,000 options of how you wanted it to look, Apple made it hard and also the method of going between apps was inconsistent, plus it had no options at all for customizing it.

He concluded he loved it, but it was so frustrating that it didn't really work how he wanted it to work and he couldn't live with it.


The Apple dude using Windows also loved it, except he didn't. He loved that the pop-up windows had curvey corners. That made him conclude it was cool, but as it wasn't apple he didn't want it.



Kinda told me what I suspected.

It is a bit hard if you're more familiar with windows, but if starting from scratch none of this will bother you. Being in the apple walled garden also makes your life incredibly easy if you have any other apple stuff. your ipods connect automatically to your apple tv and then switch to your phone and then to your computer without causing grief, the app you're using on the phone appears at the bottom of your screen on the mac so you can continue what you were doing on the computer, you can put your ipad beside your laptop and its suddenly another screen and so forth (but good luck ever escaping).

Even if you are a windows fanatic, the hardware is still pretty unbeatable. aforementioned work laptop goes flat in half a day, mac lasts well over a day of maximum effort. I used to run my previous air with intel chip exclusively as a windows computer - booting straight into windows. Much faster than running on a surface, and never, ever crashed (unlike the surface).

From all reports even running windows through parallels is much, much better than running it on a windows laptop.

www.ithinkdiff.com/windows-in-parallels-m1-mac-faster-surface-pro/

Finally, the resale on macs is much higher than other laptops and will last you a long time without performance drops.

I use windows for work and mac at home, it would be much more convenient for me to use one operating system but the mac is just sooo much nicer that I much prefer to use it.

the major downsides for me using the mac are i can't use project (except online), and you can't store offline shows from a lot of providers (disney, netflix etc).

But back to Mrknownothing's question: You want to learn "software, programming, coding, websites"?

Rule #1: You need a project.

You can do all the tutorials and exercises and examples, but without a project it's all quite aimless. So come up with a project, or two, something small, and do the tutorials and exercises that help you achieve that goal. Else you'll be aimless, and it'll be boring.

www.w3schools.com

Great point Panda!!!
Doing something for real, you get to really understand what it's about, and the knowledge has more chance of sinking in.
I have a nice thick book on command line scripting, I bought several years back, fully intending to do "something" as the whole idea really appealed to me, but the "something" has never eventuated, so I've learned nothing. Every now and again I look at the book, and think, "I must get into that", but it never seems to happen.
So yes, evil, I also need a project.

Ethan, whatever you get make sure its from umart or msy not from jbhifi/hardlys

You want a project that will actually be of benefit to the world? This is my suggestion.
Do you ever notice how out of sync the speech and the picture is on your television set?
Fix that.
I don't know anything about how streaming works or why the video and the audio can't be delivered perfectly in sync, but it must be fixable. If it was possible to put a digital mark on each stream and then make the television set match them up every couple of seconds the problem would be solved. At least it might be
For bonus points, you could come up with a system that identifies where the "sound source" is on screen and automatically adjust the speakers to try to get the apparent sound coming from that spot.

well I have a name for it.
"Lip sync recognition"
But that would only work for animal mouth noises.

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Mr Milk said..
You want a project that will actually be of benefit to the world? This is my suggestion.
Do you ever notice how out of sync the speech and the picture is on your television set?
Fix that.
I don't know anything about how streaming works or why the video and the audio can't be delivered perfectly in sync, but it must be fixable. If it was possible to put a digital mark on each stream and then make the television set match them up every couple of seconds the problem would be solved. At least it might be
For bonus points, you could come up with a system that identifies where the "sound source" is on screen and automatically adjust the speakers to try to get the apparent sound coming from that spot.

If that's the free-to-air channels it might be because when the show was recorded they had someone typing it all out as fast as they could, live, and they just used that on the stream. I've noticed it too, and i reckon it's that. It's impossible to use.

A blog is a good first project. You'll learn front-end, and back-end, and hosting and domain name registration and the whole thing. Plus, you can show off your work which makes it a little more rewarding I guess.

From a basic blog you can extend it to include more and more features, and then other people can create their own accounts on your blogging platform, and you have the next Facebook. ta da.

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evlPanda said.. If that's the free-to-air channels it might be because when the show was recorded they had someone typing it all out as fast as they could, live, and they just used that on the stream. I've noticed it too, and i reckon it's that. It's impossible to use.

A blog is a good first project. You'll learn front-end, and back-end, and hosting and domain name registration and the whole thing. Plus, you can show off your work which makes it a little more rewarding I guess.

From a basic blog you can extend it to include more and more features, and then other people can create their own accounts on your blogging platform, and you have the next Facebook. ta da.

In the old analogue days, audio and video were recorded on the same media at the same time, so they are always in sync. I've no idea what happens with digital, but the could be separate files. If those files take different paths, then there could be a time difference between them. Just guessing mind.

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decrepit said..
In the old analogue days, audio and video were recorded on the same media at the same time, so they are always in sync. I've no idea what happens with digital, but the could be separate files. If those files take different paths, then there could be a time difference between them. Just guessing mind.

A DVB stream should have the audio encoded in it and it gets streamed out at whatever rate its encoded for. As far as I know, DVB-T is just a stream of packets, and the audio packets are just mixed in with the video ones, in whatever order they are streamed in.

If there is a problem with out of sync, it can be the way it was encoded (unlikely) or the TV or device decoding it introducing delays. It shouldn't generally be a problem unless someone has really stuffed up. I suspect that encoding video in realtime is more time consuming than audio, but it would be easy to align them.

I used to use MythTV, and one of the things it could do is to adjust the video and audio sync. I used it sometimes but generally it wasn't needed.

I wonder, is it a problem with cheaper TVs only?

Whatever you do, do not buy a Surface. Biggest piece of **** I have ever owned. Just awful. Great form factor. But slower than continental drift. I actually hate it.

Here's a project for you:
A website where you can 3D view a number of boards in comparison, along with standardised summaries of dimensions etc.
So you can select say 3 or 5 boards of similar dims or intended use, then line them up synchronised on screen and spin them around and compare rocker lines and bottom concave, outlines whatever.

You'd have to get the manufacturers to donate their files, but then they get banner advertising.

pm me I'll give my dets for royalties