Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.
Select to expand quoteWetscotty said..
Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.
The best one is the one used no where near other people in the water or surf lineup.
I also feel the constant challenges, learning experiences and mini victories that the multiple disciplines of non assisted foiling offer is one of the best things about foiling.
Ok now that's out of my system.
FD: If you want maximum assistance, realistically most users buzz around on them like an e-foil. You pay for it in weight and drag but it does it best from a power and battery life perspective.
Duotone: More suited to using as a chip in device and not constantly motoring around. Lighter board weight makes it feel a bit more like "pure foiling" Remote is a little tricky to get used to.
TowBoogie: It's your personal jetski. If you have a spot where you can safely use one this is the highest performance option as once you let go of the rope you're using a standard lightweight prone/tow setup.
Select to expand quotedrc13 said..Wetscotty said..
Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.
The best one is the one used no where near other people in the water or surf lineup.
I also feel the constant challenges, learning experiences and mini victories that the multiple disciplines of non assisted foiling offer is one of the best things about foiling.
Ok now that's out of my system.
FD: If you want maximum assistance, realistically most users buzz around on them like an e-foil. You pay for it in weight and drag but it does it best from a power and battery life perspective.
Duotone: More suited to using as a chip in device and not constantly motoring around. Lighter board weight makes it feel a bit more like "pure foiling" Remote is a little tricky to get used to.
TowBoogie: It's your personal jetski. If you have a spot where you can safely use one this is the highest performance option as once you let go of the rope you're using a standard lightweight prone/tow setup.
I've got a buddy with FD and a buddy with the boogie and I'll just say I like being around the FD more. Having a 2nd, blind, semi autonomous motorized thing on the wave with you objectively sucks. I think the Boogie needs to be at a break alone somewhere which sucks because most of the assist population is going to be a demographic that probably doesn't feel 100% comfortable riding alone - so they ride with other foilers and with the boogie your trading your personal safety for that of the acoustic foilers slumming it around you.
That’s quite easy to answer as each of the three assists listed are suited to different conditions
Tow Boogie needs isolated areas, towing into offshore swells. Best in smooth conditions as it doesn’t handle chop well. It gives the closest feel to prone foil surfing. It is banned in some areas so check your local regulations.
Duotone Assist is good for true surf use, chipping onto a wave, ride it and then prone back out. Gets most of the weight off the board though it deposits it onto your waist. Runtime is more limited compared to Foildrive hence the requirement to prone out through the break.
Not particularly suited to upwind/downwind due to runtime and funky controller. Must use the Duotone mast.
Foildrive adds weight to the board, might be an issue. Great for upwind/downwind with a long runtime on the larger battery. Allows for constant foiling while surf riding with up to an hour on foil. Can be fitted to any mast/foil setup. Can be used in surf assist or efoil modes.
Select to expand quoteTooMuchEpoxy said..
I've got a buddy with FD and a buddy with the boogie and I'll just say I like being around the FD more. Having a 2nd, blind, semi autonomous motorized thing on the wave with you objectively sucks.
Oh 100% that wouldn't be comfortable for you at all.
I really don't think any of these options should be anywhere near anyone else in the water we need to protect this fantastic thing called foiling and I'm not sure that "demographic" realises just how much damage they are doing.
Short term gain for potential long term loss.
It's tricky with mates though and generally a pity that it's come down to us to be the "grumpy guys" and enforce some basic common sense/etiquette
I think the time to be asking questions is early. If you are thinking of an assist, talk to your local crew and get your friends to be critical of it before you drop $$$$. Think about safety, visibility, access. Both for yourself and others.
are you using the presence of other foilers to improve your safety? Does your presence put their safety and more importantly ACCESS at risk?
understand that your getting something from them and it's probably not appropriate to also be adding that risk.
i think another part is also that with the boogie everyone - rider and others- wants it out of the surf zone ASAP so the booger is up and back out QUICK while the FD slums it with us some and chats and shoots the **** because they can hang and do so and equalizing socially makes a big difference.
i think the original question was about which foil assist system was the best, not about safety issues. but let's face it, it's the rider, not the toy, that generally creates safety issues. any foil assist system (and any kite, surfboard, paddleboard, etc) can be dangerous (or just annoying) if not used in the proper way/proper place.
as to the original question, it's pretty clear the Foil Drive world dominates. As others above have said, each system is geared to slightly different applications, but i think the popularity of the FD system speaks volumes,
Select to expand quotebeached57 said..
i think the original question was about which foil assist system was the best, not about safety issues. but let's face it, it's the rider, not the toy, that generally creates safety issues. any foil assist system (and any kite, surfboard, paddleboard, etc) can be dangerous (or just annoying) if not used in the proper way/proper place.
True but seeing as the companies making the sales have made very little to no effort in educating their customer base (I applaud towboogie for implementing restrictions) who generally wouldn't have the ability to access and be a safety issue in the lineup without all the assistance.
They are eating up the profits while us foilers who love this sport are at risk of losing it due to these riders and their "toy"
I'm not totally anti assist they have a use case but I am anti assist anywhere near a lineup. Time and time again users of the devices have proven they either have no idea or even worse are too selfish to put the health of the sport first.
If education and or regulations were implemented higher up in the food chain we wouldn't be put in this position where we have to "rant" for the sake of the bigger picture.
Select to expand quoteTooMuchEpoxy said..
I think the time to be asking questions is early. If you are thinking of an assist, talk to your local crew and get your friends to be critical of it before you drop $$$$. Think about safety, visibility, access. Both for yourself and others.
are you using the presence of other foilers to improve your safety? Does your presence put their safety and more importantly ACCESS at risk?
understand that your getting something from them and it's probably not appropriate to also be adding that risk.
Well said
Worth saying that you can run a boogie and leave it completely out of the surf zone. Remember - auto follow is totally optional.
I'm blessed with a completely empty wave most days, but if there's other riders in the mix (usually foil drivers or SUP people) - I just get early on a wave, leave the boogie way out the back, and either pump back out to it or just suck it up and paddle back out.
This of course gives you total domination on wave choice - so be kind and give others first dibs.
Select to expand quotezarb said..
Worth saying that you can run a boogie and leave it completely out of the surf zone. Remember - auto follow is totally optional.
I'm blessed with a completely empty wave most days, but if there's other riders in the mix (usually foil drivers or SUP people) - I just get early on a wave, leave the boogie way out the back, and either pump back out to it or just suck it up and paddle back out.
This of course gives you total domination on wave choice - so be kind and give others first dibs.
I'm still really nervous that it's going to get all Foiling shut down at our public park because of the extra visibility. We mostly keep our access in the summer by having really low visibility and flying under the radar. Again, I can't stress this enough, I'm not trying to make any blanket statements about where it is is not appropriate to ride these things. It's all hyper specific and things like visibility, public perception, proximity to a public park Matter a lot more than wave type, or even the presence of other foilers in the water. I'm much less worried about being hit by a boogie that I am about losing access to my spot.
Select to expand quoteWetscotty said..
Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.
One point - for a bigger guys in the 100kgs+ range, the FD1 is underpowered and the FD2 max is not much better. Based on a couple of batteries worth of goes with a reasonable size non-trench board. The Duotone has less power again. You really need quite a lot of wave power to get to foil take off speed with these. The 70kg guys can ride sexy little boards and hop straight up with a quick burst of throttle but they just aren't as suited to the bigger guys. For me the only contender would be FD Fusion or else jumping to high mount LIFT X.
Select to expand quoteKBGhost said..Wetscotty said..
Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.
One point - for a bigger guys in the 100kgs+ range, the FD1 is underpowered and the FD2 max is not much better. Based on a couple of batteries worth of goes with a reasonable size non-trench board. The Duotone has less power again. You really need quite a lot of wave power to get to foil take off speed with these. The 70kg guys can ride sexy little boards and hop straight up with a quick burst of throttle but they just aren't as suited to the bigger guys. For me the only contender would be FD Fusion or else jumping to high mount LIFT X.
I was north of 100kg when I had the original foil drive years ago. I used a sup and it was pretty easy to get up with good paddle technique. Gen 2 with the three blade prop made it much better and I could buzz around for about a hour on Max batteries.
Seems to be trendy to have the smallest board possible now which would be harder for sure.
Select to expand quotezarb said..
Worth saying that you can run a boogie and leave it completely out of the surf zone. Remember - auto follow is totally optional.
I'm blessed with a completely empty wave most days, but if there's other riders in the mix (usually foil drivers or SUP people) - I just get early on a wave, leave the boogie way out the back, and either pump back out to it or just suck it up and paddle back out.
This of course gives you total domination on wave choice - so be kind and give others first dibs.
I own a boogie in NSW and this is what is causing massive problems at the moment. Police involved in the Newcastle region and Maritime have advised life guards there will be no warnings just straight up 1500 fine for using one full stop.
South coast have now also had Maritime involved in multiple incidents also. South west rocks also with a recent warning on the use of the boogie.
Don't ride you boogie if there are others out surfing or foiling even if you leave it out the back. Even if you are 200 meters away. For the future of the sport I wouldn't be riding it at all if the beach or region isn't deserted of people otherwise we will never get some sort of approval in NSW.
FD users have the same attitude that its ok around other surfers as long as they stay away 50 meters but this is also illegal and about to blow up and can only screw us all over.
Please use you assist products on non surfed beaches which is what they were designed for.
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..
Please use you assist products on non surfed beaches which is what they were designed for.
I'm sorry to hear you've been restricted from using your product but appreciate the input from an "assist" owner/user helping to show we aren't catastrophizing this and there is a real risk this could all be over before we've even begun.
Of course with some selfish bias I wouldn't be against official legal regulation of all the assists (as not all owners are like you and abide by common sense) but it's crucial for the health for the sport that unassisted foilers don't get thrown into the same bucket because then it's pretty much game over for the industry locally at least.
www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/waterways-safety-and-rules/emerging-technologies/remote-controlled-or-autonomous-towing-dronesSeems definitive about boogies in NSW.
Also some additional information for Foil Drives and efoils used in NSW;
They come under PWC rules for all but rego and PWC license requirements. However you do need a boat license and an approved PFD. When it comes to distance from other water users it is illegal to be on the same break as paddlers due to distance rules of the PWC.
