As I get closer to retirement, I really want to commit to my windsurfing a bit more, and at least make it to "competent" in small waves. I have no delusions about my ability. I've never really invested in equipment, just bought what I could afford at the time.
I'd like to hear people's opinions on types of boards and rigs that will give me a relatively easy time on the water, particularly on the rig side. What are the "user friendliest" sails, and which booms are the easiest on the hands?
Also any advice on how I can rig that stuff for an easier, cruisier time on the water, which will hopefully lead to more time out there, which will hopefully lead to some improvement.
Current setup is a Fanatic Tri Wave (quite like it) and a couple of Hot Sails Firelights from a few years ago. Inexpensive carbon mast and ALU booms. I'm late 50's, around 80kg. Fairly cardio fit for my age but not particularly strong.
Any advice or insight hugely appreciated.
Matt
I say light handling sail with good bottom end.
Additionally the old adage about big board small sail is sooo true. The two together is amazing
fast rocker and an extra few litres, with one size smaller sail
sail - sorry to say cos it's $$ and hard to find - S1Pro. lightness and bottom end, you're unaware of it in your hands as you sail along.
add carbon boom and good lighter carbon RDM ands nothing like a 10yo rig.
Yes, a larger board (thrusters are great for all-round use) and a lightweight ,smaller, rig works very well. The latest "regular" S1 sails are really lightweight too, so match that with a lightweight carbon boom and the difference to the older rigs is a great feeling. :)
In addition to above excellent advice, get the same brand mast as your sail. I have wasted too many years trying to tune my sails to match the wrong mast. Not worth it trying to tune a sail to work on the wrong mast. Just don't do it.
Spending some time perfecting your rig setup is a good investment. Newer wavesails need very little downhaul/outhaul compared to old school sails and the easiest way to kill low end or make them handle like crap is to be heavy handed with these settings
Rdm mast and carbon boom is probably the biggest change to great feel you can make.
I'm not sure if the "pro" versions of sails are worth the extra $$$, at least not for me as I'm probably not good enough to really feel the difference.
I really like the Severne Enigma booms because of the narrow boom diameter, but it's not for everyone.
Don't overthink it! Skills (tuning and technique) are probably more important than the gear, assuming you don't use crappy old stuff. Your skills will improve quickly when you've got more time on the water and in the waves. When you start feeling that your gear is holding you back, that's the time to start upgrading, one by one.
Enjoy, excited times ahead!
Guys, I REALLY appreciate not only the advice, but also the enthusiasm. I really think you've put me on the right path and I'm keen to try out these ideas, starting with a carbon boom, then lighter sails with matching masts as budget allows.
Currently in Jurien Bay, forecast for Corros looking iffy due to approaching cyclone. Oh well.
Thanks again!
Matt P
80%. Carbon mast min, that's a must, the rest doesn't matter much so long a it's balanced.
What's your board size and sail preference? Ezzy is super stable and dependable, can be too powerful depending on your spot. Great for bump and jump and side on.
Neil pryde have always a nice feeling even their weird 3 batten dafly.
Goya more hit and miss. Just ask me if you'd like, check out some old but interesting board tests: windsurfing.lepicture.com/
Select to expand quotegoldy68 said..
Currently in Jurien Bay, forecast for Corros looking iffy due to approaching cyclone. Oh well.
The cyclone could affect Corros - but at this point the forecast looks awesome: www.windguru.cz/639103
Where are you getting your forecast from ?
My comment was from a couple of days ago when Seabreeze was showing a mixed bag for Corros. As it turned out, I had a good sail there on Sunday reasonably powered on my 4.7. even got a few turns in so I was stoked.
Saw perhaps the strangest looking wave board I've ever seen, mb boards. Rails like a snowboard with a centre "cut" as you would see on skis or a snowboard.
Heading south today so hoping to get another spin at Lancelin on Thursday. Luck is not on my side, have a bad cold and nursing a minor foot injury. It is what it is.
MP
Duotone Power XT extension really recommend for ease of rigging and on water trimming .
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
80%. Carbon mast min, that's a must, the rest doesn't matter much so long a it's balanced.
What's your board size and sail preference? Ezzy is super stable and dependable, can be too powerful depending on your spot. Great for bump and jump and side on.
Neil pryde have always a nice feeling even their weird 3 batten dafly.
Goya more hit and miss. Just ask me if you'd like, check out some old but interesting board tests: windsurfing.lepicture.com/
Thanks for this advice!
I got out for a few runs when in WA which was great fun, but also helped me think about what it is I'd really like in a rig.
I like to plane comfortably (don't we all) but I don't want my board speed to get ahead of my brain (which seems to be happening more and more!).
So I just want to plane but then just putter along without feeling like I'm getting pitched, or the rig getting wrenched around in my hands every time a little bullet comes through.
So I guess it's "stability" and "lightness" I'm searching for. And I thank you guys for pointing me in the right direction towards that!
My board is a 99L thruster (Fanatic TriWave) but in WA I was on a 92L Patrick (thanks Mark!), which was great. No issues there.
I'm also taking on board the matching sail/mast combo, as now that I've had a bit more look in detail, I think my firelights are calling for a constant curve mast whereas I think I have C60 flex-tops. Probably doesn't help matters!
Gonna make myself a hitlist and just work through it bit by bit, paycheck by paycheck.. ;-)
MP
For comfort you want downhaul (lock in draft without killing it), usually more battens (maintains profile and therefore stability), and a sightly bigger board for the sail size.
Ezzy sails feel like cammed sails, they are a bit slower to maneuver but smooth to sail and can be used in smaller sizes. Huge range too due to their shape.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
For comfort you want downhaul (lock in draft without killing it), usually more battens (maintains profile and therefore stability), and a sightly bigger board for the sail size.
Ezzy sails feel like cammed sails, they are a bit slower to maneuver but smooth to sail and can be used in smaller sizes. Huge range too due to their shape.
Thanks mate, I appreciate that advice. I've slowly been going through the various manufacturers wave lines, and since the untimely death of windsurfing magazines (to which I had an expensive addiction), it's become a bit confusing as to what-sail-does-what (I miss those side-by-side test).
My plan is to pick a brand/sail line that will suit and that I can afford, commit to a three sail, two mast quiver, and just get out there as much as I can. I hope this will be heaps easier when I don't have the tremendous inconvenience of "work" in the way.
If I can just find someone to sell me their entire lightly used, last years quiver at a wildly discounted price.... ;-)
MP
Aah, you mean those magazine tests that never had any critique? They only wrote about the good, never the bad. If the one sail was praised for control, and the other not, you had to read between the lines that the other one sucked at that.
Maybe there were honest reviews as well, not sure, but I haven't seen them. It's better to demo sails if you can, or borrow from someone for a couple of runs. That's probably more useful than relying on tests.
I would consider a brand that is readily available in your area as that makes it easy to buy new or second hand.
I think the British magazines had some solid comparisons, but you're right, you would rarely see "do not buy" in there.
Demo stuff is a bit hard to come by where I am (Brisbane, Australia) which is understandable given the relatively small number of sails they sell here. I've occasionally borrowed a rig for a couple of runs, but it's invariably not setup for me, so as a sailor with fair but basic skills, it's difficult to make a purchase decision from that.
I just take comfort in knowing that most stuff on the market now is pretty good, and well proven. I stand to be corrected, but I think if someone says "brand X is much better than brand Y", there's probably a fair bit of confirmation bias there.
MP
Your gear sounds fine as long as you have the correct mast so i'm going to say..
location, location , location
Currumbin is probably the spot. Great in the northerly season and proper dtl in the se season.
big board and small sail is important because most of our wind is onshore so there is low wind at the launch..i know there are plenty of cross shore spots in a northerly but they are difficult at best because the sweeps are typically very strong.
anyone can take on Currumbin from beginner to pro, slalom sailor to longboarder.
what's important is being comfortable sailing off the plane so a bigger board and smaller sail helps.
Select to expand quotegoldy68 said..
Thanks mate, .
If I can just find someone to sell me their entire lightly used, last years quiver at a wildly discounted price.... ;-)
MP
That's ideal. Look for low sun exposure time, year doesn't matter. It helps to stick to one brand for both masts and sails but even that isn't necessary.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..goldy68 said..
Thanks mate, .
If I can just find someone to sell me their entire lightly used, last years quiver at a wildly discounted price.... ;-)
MP
That's ideal. Look for low sun exposure time, year doesn't matter. It helps to stick to one brand for both masts and sails but even that isn't necessary.
I would argue while it's possible to stick any mast in any sail and go windsurfing, if lightest feeling rig is the desired outcome then starting with the right mast is fairly important.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..Manuel7 said..goldy68 said..
Thanks mate, .
If I can just find someone to sell me their entire lightly used, last years quiver at a wildly discounted price.... ;-)
MP
That's ideal. Look for low sun exposure time, year doesn't matter. It helps to stick to one brand for both masts and sails but even that isn't necessary.
I would argue while it's possible to stick any mast in any sail and go windsurfing, if lightest feeling rig is the desired outcome then starting with the right mast is fairly important.
After a bit more research, it looks like the C60 masts I bought for my Firelights (ages ago now) are the right curve (FlexTop, or at least a version of it). Will probably go for a higher carbon mast when I upgrade my quiver, or whatever the sail manufacturer calls for.
So it seems that "past me" wasn't a total idiot.
Gestalt, I sailed Currumbin Alley a few times back in the day, but was a bit intimidated by it. Of course back then there were way more people out, and I'm not sure what the situation is now, but back then I always worried that if I fell on the wave, my gear might take out some poor kid on a boogy board.
Haven't been there for decades (hope the parking has improved) but I'll defo give it another shot! Thanks for the reminder.
MP
Select to expand quotegoldy68 said..Gestalt said..Manuel7 said..goldy68 said..
Thanks mate, .
If I can just find someone to sell me their entire lightly used, last years quiver at a wildly discounted price.... ;-)
MP
That's ideal. Look for low sun exposure time, year doesn't matter. It helps to stick to one brand for both masts and sails but even that isn't necessary.
I would argue while it's possible to stick any mast in any sail and go windsurfing, if lightest feeling rig is the desired outcome then starting with the right mast is fairly important.
After a bit more research, it looks like the C60 masts I bought for my Firelights (ages ago now) are the right curve (FlexTop, or at least a version of it). Will probably go for a higher carbon mast when I upgrade my quiver, or whatever the sail manufacturer calls for.
So it seems that "past me" wasn't a total idiot.
Gestalt, I sailed Currumbin Alley a few times back in the day, but was a bit intimidated by it. Of course back then there were way more people out, and I'm not sure what the situation is now, but back then I always worried that if I fell on the wave, my gear might take out some poor kid on a boogy board.
Haven't been there for decades (hope the parking has improved) but I'll defo give it another shot! Thanks for the reminder.
MP
The parking is very very bad..it's close to painful.
the easiest time to hit Currumbin is in a Seabreeze at mid low incoming tide. you will hit the banks at low.. launch from towards the rock and sail towards Lacies, palm beach direction.. there is a gutter at the palm beach side to gybe in and if things go pear shaped just beach start..
think small pozo conditions. so ports-tack jumps coming back towards Currumbin. starboard take onshore waves going towards lacies. To get planing you jump on a wave and try and ride it the whole way.
you can take out slalom gear if you have it.
map below.
black line is sailing path
yellow are sandbanks
blue deep sections
north up the page
follow the kiters.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
I would argue while it's possible to stick any mast in any sail and go windsurfing, if lightest feeling rig is the desired outcome then starting with the right mast is fairly important.
Logic would agree yes. Real world experience can differ as you know especially around mast transition sails (where extension is around 0 or 30cm) though not necessarily
No one has the time to try all of the different combos for sure. Sometimes an Ezzy mast can make a heavy (in the hands) Neilpryde sail more mangeable, a 400+370 mast can soften a top heavy feeling sail. A 370+400 give it a better feel or a 340+400 ezzy replace a 370 hardtop.
The one true thing is a lighter mast will make transitions faster and easier (tacks, ducks, jibes, waterstarts, etc) and help with earlier planing.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..Gestalt said..
I would argue while it's possible to stick any mast in any sail and go windsurfing, if lightest feeling rig is the desired outcome then starting with the right mast is fairly important.
Logic would agree yes. Real world experience can differ as you know especially around mast transition sails (where extension is around 0 or 30cm) though not necessarily
No one has the time to try all of the different combos for sure. Sometimes an Ezzy mast can make a heavy (in the hands) Neilpryde sail more mangeable, a 400+370 mast can soften a top heavy feeling sail. A 370+400 give it a better feel or a 340+400 ezzy replace a 370 hardtop.
The one true thing is a lighter mast will make transitions faster and easier (tacks, ducks, jibes, waterstarts, etc) and help with earlier planing.
Either I misunderstand you, or I have to call BS. A flex top mast will not work in a Severne sail, and a Severne mast will not work in a Goya even if it's 100%.
And putting an Ezzy 400 base with an Ezzy 430 top still feels like crap in a Severne Blade. As does an Ezzy 400 base and a 460 top. But putting in a Blue Line transforms that sail into magic.
And the reverse, putting an Ezzy 400 tip on a 430 base does not make a Banzai feel good. But a Simmer mast feels almost as good as a Goya mast in the Banzai.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..Gestalt said..
I would argue while it's possible to stick any mast in any sail and go windsurfing, if lightest feeling rig is the desired outcome then starting with the right mast is fairly important.
Logic would agree yes. Real world experience can differ as you know especially around mast transition sails (where extension is around 0 or 30cm) though not necessarily
No one has the time to try all of the different combos for sure. Sometimes an Ezzy mast can make a heavy (in the hands) Neilpryde sail more mangeable, a 400+370 mast can soften a top heavy feeling sail. A 370+400 give it a better feel or a 340+400 ezzy replace a 370 hardtop.
The one true thing is a lighter mast will make transitions faster and easier (tacks, ducks, jibes, waterstarts, etc) and help with earlier planing.
Agree that lighter masts feel better and think that may be part of the op's problem. C60 mast will feel like dead fish.
the rest I agree with Philn. There is no world where an off brand mast would be a better choice than the mast the sail was designed and tested with. Sure there are options that are close enough but they are not better or as good.
Select to expand quotephiln said..
And the reverse, putting an Ezzy 400 tip on a 430 base does not make a Banzai feel good. But a Simmer mast feels almost as good as a Goya mast in the Banzai.
How did it not work for you? Your weight? I saw no difference between Ezzy 340 base + 400 top and Naish 100% on a Gaastra sail. A cc mast on a hardtop sail just needs tons of outhaul, some loss in low end but still works.
I wish I could try a banzai with a longer top but the feedback I received was that it worked. For flex top sails and cc mast, one needs good downhaul but barely touch the outhaul.
All sizes aren't created equal though and certainly bigger riders may suffer more from a noodle than lighties.
Oh and no not all sails in all sizes are tested no. Computer generated.
Most of this mast discussion goes over my head, but I've been using a handy chart from Unifiber that shows which of their masts (Constant Curve, Flex Lower, Flex Upper), goes with which sail brands. It's actually quite interesting, as only a few sails are still made for FlexTop (my HotSails being one, Goya being another).
I'm currently looking at the 5 batten Goya, they seem to fit the bill, and allows me to get in to new sails without the immediate expense of new masts, which I could upgrade next year.
The down side of course is that buying expensive flext top masts sort of locks me into a narrow range of sail brands.
The windsurfing industry doesn't make it super easy to buy what you need (unless money is no object).
*Sigh*
Depends what you call tuning. If you buy the same brand mast and sail, rig it to specs, do the battens, you're pretty much good to go without having to overthink this. Sure you'll play around with downhaul and outhaul but that's about it for a wave and freeride sail.
Tuning meaning finding the specs/cues to make the rig work for our use. Funny that the 2 times I had matching brands, I preferred them with some other brand, ha!
Select to expand quotegoldy68 said..
Most of this mast discussion goes over my head, but I've been using a handy chart from Unifiber that shows which of their masts (Constant Curve, Flex Lower, Flex Upper), goes with which sail brands. It's actually quite interesting, as only a few sails are still made for FlexTop (my HotSails being one, Goya being another).
I'm currently looking at the 5 batten Goya, they seem to fit the bill, and allows me to get in to new sails without the immediate expense of new masts, which I could upgrade next year.
The down side of course is that buying expensive flext top masts sort of locks me into a narrow range of sail brands.
The windsurfing industry doesn't make it super easy to buy what you need (unless money is no object).
*Sigh*
As a heads up the unifiber chart should be banned from the internet. It's a joke. Designed to sell mast.
there are plenty of obvious errors once you know what to look for. I'd say the 2019 version is better but even then it's not great.
