Question
What board volume is generally used for wave sailing v body weight or does it come down to skill. I'm not much of a wave sailor but have been bitten by the bug and I WANT MORE

I see a lot of smaller volume boards for sale and wondering are people upgrading or are the boards too small

My specs:

weight: 75-77kg (depending on food intake and current taste bud trend)
i own:
RRD FSW 96L favourite board for bump&jump and general blasting, and
Starboard Kombat 87L

I love both boards and generally use the smaller board when it blowing its tits off, just blasting bump&jump

I'm around 85 kgs. I have a two board quiver. A 101 litre free ride board that I use for 7.5 and 6.5m. My wave board is 86 litre for 5.7, 5.3 and 4.7. I find the 86 is too big for the 4.7 but I can't justify a third board. If money and space wasn't a problem I would replace my 86 wave board for two; a 90ish litre and a 75ish litre.

You'll hate my answer but it depends. Depends on your most likely conditions. If your most likely conditions are consistent and strong cross shore winds with some kind of a channel to get out you can ride a board volume slightly less than weight in kg. If no channel or light winds or gusty inconsistent winds or on shore winds, add a few liters. If all of the preceding, add 10-15 liters to your weight in kg. Also depends on design of board. Some boards work well when over sized (Quattro Cube from experience).

I don't use bigger than a 5.5 wave sail, but I'll use that sail with an oversized board (weight plus 25 liters) in <10 knots at a reef break with a nice channel.

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philn said..
You'll hate my answer but it depends. Depends on your most likely conditions. If your most likely conditions are consistent and strong cross shore winds with some kind of a channel to get out you can ride a board volume slightly less than weight in kg. If no channel or light winds or gusty inconsistent winds or on shore winds, add a few liters. If all of the preceding, add 10-15 liters to your weight in kg. Also depends on design of board. Some boards work well when over sized (Quattro Cube from experience).

I don't use bigger than a 5.5 wave sail, but I'll use that sail with an oversized board (weight plus 25 liters) in <10 knots at a reef break with a nice channel.

hmmm..... seems logical

think i'll stick with 1) learn how to properly wave sail, 2) use my little board 10L above body weight (87L Kombat), and 3) sail the s##t out of it until it breaks. By then i'll be better and then i'll deserve to buy myself a proper wave board...a cool one and, 4) talk to people on the beach and get their point of view on the day.

Get a multifin fin 80l 2013 or newer board. It will sort you for most conditions. If you want more forgiveness in tacks gybes add 5l but it wont be as loose. If you want another board for float and ride get 95ish or keep your fsw. Youll learn heaps quicker with a new style board, really forgiving, easy to initiate and maintain speeds for turns, and can hold more volume down in a blow. just my thoughts

^^^ I disagree barri. As one new to waves, Vince really needs float and easy planing to get thru the break.
Then just enough turnability to ride waves - so a FSW is perfect.

A pure wave board is nice and loose but harder to get going, harder to keep going when the wind drops in the break, harder to maintain speed in the gybe, not a secure nice feeling when blasting along when not wavesailing.

I think a FSW like the Kombat is ideal until you are riding waves well enough that the lack of looseness is recognised by the rider and they want more. Then change.

Then again, maybe just before that point arrives, try a smaller wavey fin, as the 26-30cm upright FSW fins are limiting, and putting a 23cm ish wave fin in a 87L Kombat will open up much more wave ability.

Lets agree to disagree

I like quads and think the ease of initiating the bottom turn is the bomb. Particularly trying to learn frontside in crosson. I know my first m.f. board improved my sailing. But fair point if struggling to plane, tack and gybe.

Like i said just my Thoughts

Hey Mark, makes sense to me. I'm just an occasional wave sailor. I've tried both wave and FSW around the 85L. Do you think that, say for the standard 80 keg sailing unit (I wish), that a modern 100L wave board may get you going as early as an 85L FSW, be just as slashy but more comfortable? Haven't tried one that size myself so interested to know from those that have - like lao shi and yourself.

I'm a relatively novice wave sailor but I'll give you my thoughts for what they're worth.

I'm about 84kg and I have had a Goya 104 quad for a season now (so +20L volume). The added float is great for a novice as your technique doesn't need to be quite as good to get out through whitewater or when the wind is light on the inside. You don't really notice the board size on the wave (not at my level anyway), it's plenty loose and the only downside is the jumping - it still feels like a 100L board when it's in the air.

The quad is reasonably quick to plane for a wave board and goes up wind really well, which is another big benefit. I find it a lot easier to wave sail on that my 92L JP FSW even if it doesn't plane up quite as fast.

I could be wrong but I think that the quads are easier to wave sail than single fins as you don't need to be as technically proficient when you initiate a turn and load up the rail.

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Gonebush said..
I'm a relatively novice wave sailor but I'll give you my thoughts for what they're worth.

I'm about 84kg and I have had a Goya 104 quad for a season now (so +20L volume). The added float is great for a novice as your technique doesn't need to be quite as good to get out through whitewater or when the wind is light on the inside. You don't really notice the board size on the wave (not at my level anyway), it's plenty loose and the only downside is the jumping - it still feels like a 100L board when it's in the air.

The quad is reasonably quick to plane for a wave board and goes up wind really well, which is another big benefit. I find it a lot easier to wave sail on that my 92L JP FSW even if it doesn't plane up quite as fast.

I could be wrong but I think that the quads are easier to wave sail than single fins as you don't need to be as technically proficient when you initiate a turn and load up the rail.

Good insight Gonebush. How would you rate the quads performance when not on a wave- say just basting around and gybing in the surf-zone?

As for weight and board size. I'm a bit of a novice in the surf and like around 20 litres above my weight. My 78 kg is quite happy / comfortable with around 100 litres under my feet. At this stage any less seems to makes life hard work.

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PhilSWR said..

Gonebush said..
I'm a relatively novice wave sailor but I'll give you my thoughts for what they're worth.

I'm about 84kg and I have had a Goya 104 quad for a season now (so +20L volume). The added float is great for a novice as your technique doesn't need to be quite as good to get out through whitewater or when the wind is light on the inside. You don't really notice the board size on the wave (not at my level anyway), it's plenty loose and the only downside is the jumping - it still feels like a 100L board when it's in the air.

The quad is reasonably quick to plane for a wave board and goes up wind really well, which is another big benefit. I find it a lot easier to wave sail on that my 92L JP FSW even if it doesn't plane up quite as fast.

I could be wrong but I think that the quads are easier to wave sail than single fins as you don't need to be as technically proficient when you initiate a turn and load up the rail.

Good insight Gonebush. How would you rate the quads performance when not on a wave- say just basting around and gybing in the surf-zone?

As for weight and board size. I'm a bit of a novice in the surf and like around 20 litres above my weight. My 78 kg is quite happy / comfortable with around 100 litres under my feet. At this stage any less seems to makes life hard work.

The quad is slower get on the plane than the FSW (you have to push it off the wind to get on the plane) and it definitely has a lower top end so it's not going to be as much fun for bump and jump or flat water. That said, its planing and top speed is not bad and its still good fun to blast around on it. I actually found the FSW almost too fast in the waves - it out runs the wave and the jumps are scary big at somewhere like Makaha where you have a run up.

The quad points nice and high too so you can get back upwind easily, which is half the battle. I've got an old 80L single fin wave board for when it's howling but I've used the quad with a 4.2m at Windang before and it was still surprisingly manageable.

Do not get a FSW if you want to spend more times in waves.
For waves get a wave board. Anything else is a compromise as I leaned myself few years back.
barri's advice is what I'd recommend too. Make sure it's a modern wave board.

A few different opinions there and i value all the feedback. I would like to become a competent wave sailor, i dream of it all the time...well windsurfing in general really. My plan is to sail the s**t out of the boards i have 'cos they are good and they were good in their day and no reason they are not good now. I'll take on Mark_Aus recommendation and try different fin sizes and maybe position the current fin a little forward and a little back. I need to grow some balls and get out there . Winter storms here i come. All wetsuits repaired and ready to go

and in the meantime i'll research boards and look for my dream board, not sure weather to go thruster or quad but that will be a season or two away

paddymac and vpar

For me (75kg give or take) sailing mainly at Dutchies which is not a wave venue the Rider 100 quad wave board has been one of the best windsurfing purchases I have ever made. I have used it with a 5.9 S1 and a 5.3 blade/ now 5.4 Loft Purelip (pics in sequence, top 2 up North and last one down South)
It is not as fast as a FSW but I have changed my sailing dramatically so I am often out in float around conditions that I would not have left the beach in working on tacking and sailing upwind off the plane and catching small lumps then when it reaches 12+ knots I am rarely sailing more than 200m offshore and working on cranking gybes that I would not manage on a FSW as well as turns in the mush. It gets planing faster than a smaller wave board but does need good technique to get the best of early planing. This means that you can get nice little jumps off the inside section.

In the odd opportunities that I have had to use it in real waves it performs so much better than the FSW I have had in the past and I have been out in some sizeable (for me) swell. It is not as comfortable when the wind gets up in choppy conditions so I don't sail much out the back.







If you are looking to improve your sailing in proper waves I would definitely agree with Ivan and say go the full on wave board but be prepared to change how you sail and travel. If you are normally sailing in less than ideal waves a board above your body weight will get you out practising the skills you need when you get in to real waves. If you have a FSW you are more likely to just go out for a blast and not do so much turning.

Also strongly suggest doing some courses. I am a Cribby fan boi but my wavesailing and general skills have improved greatly since doing his courses. There are other coaches out there as well but try and find someone that you connect with and stick with them.

You guys are welcome to give the board a try.

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lao shi said...
paddymac and vpar

For me (75kg give or take) sailing mainly at Dutchies which is not a wave venue the Rider 100 quad wave board has been one of the best windsurfing purchases I have ever made. I have used it with a 5.9 S1 and a 5.3 blade/ now 5.4 Loft Purelip (pics in sequence, top 2 up North and last one down South)
It is not as fast as a FSW but I have changed my sailing dramatically so I am often out in float around conditions that I would not have left the beach in working on tacking and sailing upwind off the plane and catching small lumps then when it reaches 12+ knots I am rarely sailing more than 200m offshore and working on cranking gybes that I would not manage on a FSW as well as turns in the mush. It gets planing faster than a smaller wave board but does need good technique to get the best of early planing. This means that you can get nice little jumps off the inside section.

In the odd opportunities that I have had to use it in real waves it performs so much better than the FSW I have had in the past and I have been out in some sizeable (for me) swell. It is not as comfortable when the wind gets up in choppy conditions so I don't sail much out the back.







If you are looking to improve your sailing in proper waves I would definitely agree with Ivan and say go the full on wave board but be prepared to change how you sail and travel. If you are normally sailing in less than ideal waves a board above your body weight will get you out practising the skills you need when you get in to real waves. If you have a FSW you are more likely to just go out for a blast and not do so much turning.

Also strongly suggest doing some courses. I am a Cribby fan boi but my wavesailing and general skills have improved greatly since doing his courses. There are other coaches out there as well but try and find someone that you connect with and stick with them.

You guys are welcome to give the board a try.

That's the best post I've seen in years.

But, once on the wave, the non wave boards will frustrate you no end. You lean into a bottom turn and nothing happens. It takes a LOT of skill to turn a non wave board, top or bottom and perhaps you will never turn it well. Even some "wave" boards are stiff as hell. OTOH I loaned my 75 fanatic quad to a friend and his turning improved immediately.

Just my 2c worth but I have found that multi's do take your wave sailing to another level - in my case from total kook to slightly above cr@p. I had FSW's since early 2000's and love them for the blast & pop but they don't really hold a rail & tend to outrun the wave....or was that me...?
You could consider a thruster however for that larger size (95-100L), in my experience they tend to fly around upwind and have a good turn of speed. When it's flat as a tack just remove the sides for more speed & jumps. That said, I always leave the sides in as helps go upwind. Blown out side-on conditions are great for a Thruster.
At 80kg's I find a 2 board quiver to be a good option, I like a 95-100L Thruster for light or no swell & an 85L Quad for 5.3m & stronger or when the swell is jacking.
Have a look at these Thrusters: JP single Thruster, Tabou Pocket, Quattro, Goya, Fanatic. For a newbie I'd consider something over 60cm wide as it does help with gybing & general stability. Tabou for me.
For a single board set up I think a 90-95L multi (5 fin box) plus additional fin options would be the ticket - small fins tend to keep the board quiet.
Seeya on the water.

AB.....

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vpar said...
[br]Question
What board volume is generally used for wave sailing v body weight or does it come down to skill.

I used the 1L=1kg equation when starting out in waves as an intermediate sailor.

So when starting out, if you weighed 70kg, then your weight, plus the weight of your rig (say 10kg) and the weight of the board (7kg) all add up to 87kg which would equate to a 87L board to give a reasonably good level of floatation for that skill level.

As you progress, the rig and board weights stay roughly the same. while your improved skill level will allow for a reduced volume board.

Not fact, just an opinion.

PS: It will also depend on your light wind waterstart & gybing skills when heading out in the surf

75kg ballast. I have a Starboard Kombat 87L and a RRD FSW 96L. My gybes are improving. But light wind water starts are not so good, just something i need to work on and looking for tips to assist

Don't go too big, because you will never be able to proper wave sail. I also take 1 for 1 in side shore and channel and + 5 on side-on and no channel and properly powered.

Unfortunatly in 10-12 knts with solide swell, the max I can go is + 15, but i feel better on + 10-12, so at 78kg the max volume I can really wave sail with is at 90L. Bigger than that i struggle and can't manage properly the wave. Heavier sailors seeme less affected. But I can't see how an 80kg guy would handle a logo high with a bit of bump with an 100L under their feet in DDL? I think a beginer will blame himself of not diging the rail etc. You need something you can uphaul and come back to shore in super light wind, don't go too big! Might be my technique also?! In side-on big current go as big as you can to let you out and a FSW is good in those condition!

I have to admit the last time I tested big boards was 4 years ago, a Quatro LS98L and I hated it. Apparently heavier sailor liked the LS and lighter sailor not that much. So I might also have to retest that +12 or + 20 this winter on Maui.
cheers

You live in WA so being windy enough ain't a problem.

Just sell your combat and buy an 80lt multi fun wave board and keep the bigger board for when there is no surf and head for some flat water to learn board and sail control to gybe and tack better.

Checkout Jaeger's board interview on "continent seven" web site. Multi fin is the way to go..kilo to litre also a good rule. For me I hang in the 60's 61kg riding 65L stone quad @ age 60

I've gotta say that for me living on the East Coast somewhere between +10 to +15 is perfect (for my area anyway) as we don't have the most consistent wind. If I could afford it I would probably also add a kilo to litre option for those nuking days but it would probably only get used 2 to 3 times a year if I was lucky. So at the moment I weigh 82 and have a 95l board and use 5.7, 5.2, 4.7 sails on it.

I am 82kg and have a 104li Goya Quad. it rocks. but i also have a 93li Fanatic quad for when it is windier.
the 104 gets most of the sailing. If you live on the East Coast then i think you need a dedicated float and ride option. The bigger multi fin boards do turn, but in light wind the ability to go up wind, tack, pump on to waves, even uphaul if you need to means more sailing. a smaller board will crank harder turns. but if you fall in every time you want to change tack then you can become despondent very quickly...