275-280 boom

602 luff

Weight - ?


A very small wind range I guess. A 100 cm wide board or equivalent necessary. Cost of components prohibitive.

What about feel?



www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Sails/~lnv8v/2018-Neil-Pryde-Rs-Racing-122-metre.aspx?_page=1&search=P6K%2Ftsb2rZrARE%2BQ6m0Zxw%3D%3D

It's going to feel real heavy mate.

Years ago I was into formula, and started with Gaastra nitro', I think the sizes I had were 9, 10.9 and 12. I'm sure there was a 12.5 option too. I switched to the North warps 3 and finally the Warp 4 (first wide luff tube) in 9m, 11m and 11.9m.

the 12m/11.9m wind range was 6k to 12k, once above 12k most changed to their number 2 sail, usually an 11m/10.9m. 9m was for high winds. At the time, there was a ton of Formula fin options to get extend the sail range.

When formula became unpopular in the UK, I keep't my gear for light wind fun. For recreational light wind fun, the extra weight/swing weight of the 11.9m and 11m meant they didn't actually get planing any earlier than my 9m. They did point higher and could go deeper than the 9m which was great for upwind/down wind course racing, but unnecessary for fun sailing.
As a compromise, sold all three sails and replaced with a 9.6m for super light winds. Last year I upgraded my much loved old SB F160 for an ultrasonic. I can still get this going in about 8k, and a solid 10k is super easy. I'm around 100kg.

basically, I don't think you'll gain any real benefit with a 12m vs a 9/9.5m slalom sail.

Just my 2 cents !!!

I still have 12.0, 11.0, 10.0, which I used for formula in the old days. When I wanted to just go out and cruise long distances on light days on the formula board, the 11.0 was the best sail for that, and the 10.0 was used when it got windy.

The 12.0 was ONLY for actual racing, but I did not enjoy using it. Most of the time, I came back in and took the 11.0 out.

Even the big strong top pros preferred the 11's over their biggest sails except for practicing in sub 12 breezes. Pumping is key, and 12's are just a big static wall.

Actually, with some adjustments it works quite well for foiling 12.2 evo9, now more like a 10.0 evo flight

If you want a 12 rig you should be able to get them almost for free, just put an add in the wanted section. Formula guys now only race with foils and are re-cutting their sails because they know they cannot sell them.

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LeeD said..
Even the big strong top pros preferred the 11's over their biggest sails except for practicing in sub 12 breezes. Pumping is key, and 12's are just a big static wall.

Hey Clown , We big strong top pros here in Australia loved our 12+ sails.

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AUS4 said..

LeeD said..
Even the big strong top pros preferred the 11's over their biggest sails except for practicing in sub 12 breezes. Pumping is key, and 12's are just a big static wall.

Hey Clown , We big strong top pros here in Australia loved our 12+ sails.

haha yes--typical wisdom of someone who never actually raced in fw fleets in marginal winds

You are correct.I never raced Formula in under 17 knot winds, which means at the lightest wind at any mark.
So gusts to 25.
Paulo, the 190 lbs Puerto Rican, doesn't fly with a 12, but he uses a 11.5 in winds up to 28 in the gusts.
Formula racing in US is postponed until the wind is at least 15 knots at start, upwind, and downwind marks.

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LeeD said..
You are correct.I never raced Formula in under 17 knot winds, which means at the lightest wind at any mark.
So gusts to 25.
Paulo, the 190 lbs Puerto Rican, doesn't fly with a 12, but he uses a 11.5 in winds up to 28 in the gusts.
Formula racing in US is postponed until the wind is at least 15 knots at start, upwind, and downwind marks.

This is Paulo Dos Reis using his North Warp F2014 12m.
North Warp sizes 10 11 12

He said he brings smaller sails to all events.
He practices with 12 to get stronger.
Talked to him maybe 5 years ago in Puerto Rico and again the following year when he won US Nationals at Berkeley Ca.

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LeeD said..
He said he brings smaller sails to all events.
He practices with 12 to get stronger.
Talked to him maybe 5 years ago in Puerto Rico and again the following year when he won US Nationals at Berkeley Ca.

Yeah, well Clown here in Australia were we big strong pros sailed with him at our Nationals 3 years in a row he used a 12m in all the lighter breezes as we also did.

I will say this. Before foiling hit the scene in Florida, the Florida formula racers used their 12.0 sails a lot in the mostly light Florida winds.

Four years ago at the Island Style, Open Formula class, in Sarasota FL I struggled to keep an old 11.7 going around the course while a couple of the really fit locals did just fine with new 12.0 sails.

One windfoiler in Seattle uses a 11.9 on a formula board with the SB Race foil, for regular freeride foiling. I have yet to try anything bigger than a 8.5 over a foil even though I hsve a garageful of bigger formula sails that I am loathe to get rid of.

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LeeD said..
He said he brings smaller sails to all events.
He practices with 12 to get stronger.
Talked to him maybe 5 years ago in Puerto Rico and again the following year when he won US Nationals at Berkeley Ca.

lol, probably just said that to make you feel better

@segler: depending on what you have in stock and are looking to do, cutting down a fw sail can be a viable option. at the margins it might not be as efficient as a dedicated foil race sail, but it can be made to be reasonably close and is probably more cost effective (not to mention the difficulties in getting your hands on dedicated foil race gear in the US...)

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bel29 said..
Actually, with some adjustments it works quite well for foiling 12.2 evo9, now more like a 10.0 evo flight

Looks Great. Have you raced it? Did you think about shortening the luff so you don't have to use a mast extension?

Yes, I am checking into the thing about cutting down big formula sails into high aspect ratio foiling sails. A friend of mine in Florida did this with an old 12.5 to create a 10.0. I noticed, however, that he was racing with a new 10.0 NP race foil sail at the Clearwater Midwinters last month. I forgot to ask him why.

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AUS299 said..

bel29 said..
Actually, with some adjustments it works quite well for foiling 12.2 evo9, now more like a 10.0 evo flight

Looks Great. Have you raced it? Did you think about shortening the luff so you don't have to use a mast extension?

No, I haven't considered shortening the luff; that would be both more difficult to do and (for me) unnecessary as I had the mast and extension for this sail when it was still a 12.2. Its current luff and boom length are almost identical to the 10.0 EvoFlight (admittedly more by accident than design), with mine having a slightly wider area under the boom and the EvoFlight having a slightly longer luff (yes even longer!)

And yes, I have raced it but in very marginal conditions (apparently at the same race Segler was at :D). I had this cutdown done over the winter to have a bigger foil sail to train on while waiting for my '20 Duotone sails (which have now been further delayed because of the virus), so I knew it was always going to be suboptimal compared to a dedicated foil race sail. However, it is definitely more competitive in marginal foil conditions than my next sail down (8.8 Warp Foil), but even when rigged with slightly less DH than I would have put on for FW racing it probably gives up a few degrees on upwind angle. Firming up the leech further would improve its upwind angle, and should be possible but would require further sailmaker intervention (there is a limit to how much DH you can let off before the sail stops functioning as intended).

Compare a NP foil race sail to it's slalom brother.

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