I'm willing to pay.
I'd really REALLY appreciate it.
I'd take really good care of it.
Keef provides other services to strange women for money all the time. I don't see why fins should be any different.
I need to go really fast.
Isaac generously shares his knowledge and gear with people from other teams. It would be a shame to be outdone by Isaac in yet another category.
It's scientifically important to test whether the fins work as effectively on the north coast as the south coast.
It would shut me up.

Keef makes great fins

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Dezza said...
Keef makes great fins

Really?

I'm his manager,if you want a fin you'll have to deal with me.

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FormulaNova said...

Dezza said...
Keef makes great fins

Really?

Great and PRETTY. Dezza may be the only sailor in Australia with a fin custom colour matched to her board. The benefits of colour coordination for speed and performance have been scientifically proven

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KA360 said...
I'm his manager,if you want a fin you'll have to deal with me.

Hmmm... I hope you're not one of those super pushy managers who drives him until he breaks and stifles his natural creative genius. Or pushes him to do promotional activities he's uncomfortable with. Like ads for haemorrhoid cream or modelling sequinned men's underwear

He is kind to the sand paper industry, never uses it!!!!!!!!

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FormulaNova said...

Dezza said...
Keef makes great fins

Really?

Dale is jealous

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needsalt said...

I'm willing to pay.
I'd really REALLY appreciate it.
I'd take really good care of it.
Keef provides other services to strange women for money all the time. I don't see why fins should be any different.
I need to go really fast.
Isaac generously shares his knowledge and gear with people from other teams. It would be a shame to be outdone by Isaac in yet another category.
It's scientifically important to test whether the fins work as effectively on the north coast as the south coast.
It would shut me up.

nichole you'll have to specify these strange services , my PM box has jammed up, honestly I didn't think there were so many women on this site
also have to put you strait about Isaac, honestly he's a snake and a hustler and planning on bringing his van for a couple of weeks just to kick my ass again
i'm not sure about the fins being anything special or fast , but wide short and fat and defy laws of physics , my theory is if its wide you can have back foot pressure in minimal wind , if its fat you have lift , if its short you can sail in shallow flat water so basically there a primbee fin and may not suit your home spot south west rocks ,
so if im going to make you a fin youll have to talk to my manager

Needsalt- Can't you just use the fin you have ,to "just have fun"?

Your not getting competitive are you. You haven't been looking at the individual rankings and thinking of getting ahead of Crazy.

My money is on Dez to take you both out,easily.
More fins coming right up Dez,what colour would you like?

Keef would probably go for the haemorrhoid cream idea,but I'm afraid he'd just end up sitting around all day again,so I'll have to follow up the sequinned underwear opportunities. Thanks for the tip.

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Dezza said...

FormulaNova said...

Dezza said...
Keef makes great fins

Really?

Dale is jealous

Too true! I would have loved having that slow gear on Sunday Dezza looked so relaxed and comfortable while I was stressed out battling that huge chop!

If only I could have gybed around you! Revenge will be mine......

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KA360 said...
Needsalt- Can't you just use the fin you have ,to "just have fun"?

Your not getting competitive are you. You haven't been looking at the individual rankings and thinking you of getting ahead of Crazy.

My money is on Dez to take you both out,easily.
More fins coming right up Dez,what colour would you like?

Keef would probably go for the haemorrhoid cream idea,but I'm afraid he'd just end up sitting around all day again,so I'll have to follow up the sequinned underwear opportunities. Thanks for the tip.

Dear Colonel,

As you have been studying the rankings, you might have noticed that I can't even gybe properly after all these years and therefore pose zero threat to Crazy, Dezza or anyone else, ever. Yet strangely, my lack of ability or competitive potential has had zero impact on my passion or interest in windsurfing. Despite having zero natural ability and every meagre ounce of skill I have being very hard-earned, I still spend every spare dollar and moment windsurfing or dreaming about windsurfing. Despite my lack-of-gybe shame, I made a special trip to WA to get my AYF Basic Skills Instructor's Certificate over ten years ago and bought a Starboard Start and rig solely for the purpose of teaching other people to sail. I am yet to meet a single child or adult who has been at risk of losing interest in windsurfing because of lack of opportunity to compete or be competitive.

You and Keef are both right - my fins are perfectly fine to sail anywhere but Primbee. Probably easiest if I just stay away from Primbee. Problem solved - plea for special Keef fin withdrawn

I have also learned my lesson about expressing an alternative view to you. It seems you are just as competitive about making a point as you are about windsurfing. What was supposed to be a fun Keef-is-awesome fin thread has somehow turned into that other thread. Apologies to all readers.

Needsalt-
It sounds like we have much more in common than you think. Yes I study the rankings and anything that is windsurfing related.And as you do I also spend every spare dollar and moment windsurfing or dreaming about windsurfing.I have also made a trip to do Instructor's Certificate and last summer I bought a Starboard Start and rig solely for the purpose of teaching other people to sail.

From what I have witnessed from the kids ,climbing the overall ranking category was the one they were most proud of. Being last (13th) the first time the post,then making it into the top 10 and then trying to beat their mates motivates them to fight and pull harder on their rig than they would otherwise do.The GPS is an awesome tool for aiding faster than normal progression for beginners.But 13 year olds trying to climb a ladder with 18 yo,they might have multiple PBs but not climb the ranking.blah,blah,blah...
You and I both don't care about individual rankings. I am only interested in comparing how I went against the people who were sailing at the same location as myself. I am guessing the alpha is the category that most interests you at the moment.Next year you will have a different goal. I saw your post the other day and had a chuckle when it was a freestyler who that helped you make that breakthrough .The first ones the hardest one! Crongrats for cracking the gybe.

I am just getting a bit fed up with people who have not met me but call me competitive,a trophy hunter and living a vicarious relationship .They have all got one thing in common,they failed or couldn't be bothered teaching their own kids to windsurf.Your comment that you wouldn't want to sail in the same location as me wasn't cool and I'm guessing it was because you were just being a sheep ,laying the boot in with windsurfing parent failures,so I thought I'd have a bit of fun with you

Anyway enough rant,if you feel like going to Primbee, go. The more the merrier .There will be one of Keefs fins available anytime .

Don't hold your breath waiting for your own fin though. You know Keefs moto.

I might be rough,but I'm slow.

See you at Primbee

Needsalt, you are welcome to try the red keef weedy anytime, come back to primbee on a weekend westerly

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needsalt said...
...
Isaac generously shares his knowledge and gear misinformation with people from other teams.
...

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keef said...



i'm not sure about the fins being anything special or fast , but wide short and fat and defy laws of physics , my theory is if its wide you can have back foot pressure in minimal wind , if its fat you have lift , if its short you can sail in shallow flat water so basically there a primbee fin and may not suit your home spot south west rocks ,
so if im going to make you a fin youll have to talk to my manager

nichole i'm not sure if you read in between the lines , by saying , if i'm going to make you a fin you'll have to talk to my manager
I ment , we will need to see what conditions your sailing e,g the fin you used was suited for primbee last year for weed and shallow water 17cm and 47deg rake
, this year there isn't any weed and more chop so we need to go deeper 20 to 22cm and 45 deg rake so the fin is more suited for the chop and still short enough for shallow water , I have also gone fatter with the foil on some of the fins but maintained the same length for bigger sails so you get the lift from the foil rather than the length, i'm not sure if it works but that's what dezza has got and shes the test pilot
i

nichole you will need to send an email to my manager in detail of your sailing conditions and we will see if we can lift that competitive spirit of your , you looked very comfortable blasting down to primbee the other days , and you had massive big balls to even think about going out when the wind was building up from 40 to 70 knts
needsalt said...

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, my lack of ability or competitive potential has had zero impact on my passion or interest in windsurfing. Despite having zero natural ability and every meagre ounce of skill

once again Nicole don't listen to Isaac he's full of it, to be surrrrrrr to be surrrrrrrrrrrr he's an Irishman with Scottish blood running through his veins , some of those stories he comes up with, I have guys calling every big blow asking is he coming up , there has to be some reason why the carpark is getting over crowded

so what we need to do is get you something money can't buy and lift your competitive spirit , don't worry about the other girls on the gps site just go out and sail against your self and with a descent fin you will be surprised with how much competitive spirit you have

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KA360 said...
Needsalt-
Your comment that you wouldn't want to sail in the same location as me wasn't cool and I'm guessing it was because you were just being a sheep ,laying the boot in with windsurfing parent failures,so I thought I'd have a bit of fun with you

Here is what I said:

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needsalt said...

KA360 said...
So for kids it's all about PBs and individual overall ranking. I don't think GPSTC will continue to be used by this age group if we don't fix this up. More than half of the people affected are in the ACT Gustbusters team this year. It would be sad to lose their interest.

Do kids really need to see that they're beating someone else to stay interested in windsurfing? I'm not sure they're the kind of people I would enjoy sailing with as adults. I want to sail with and be inspired by people like izaak. People who just love windsurfing.
...

Meaning, I want to sail with people who love windsurfing. I'm not sure that I want to sail with people who are at risk of losing interest in windsurfing if they cannot see that they are beating someone else, as you suggested in your quote above.

I didn't mention not wanting to sail with anyone personally, or anything personal at all actually. It was up to anyone who read it to decide whether the words applied to them. A number of posts to the same thread expressed similar sentiment. If that makes me a sheep, so be it.

After a gazillion years windsurfing, a weekend clinic with Warren Francis, a trip to Perth, 2 weeks in Fiji with Simon Cunningham, a trip to Gero, 2 trips to Cocos, 2 weeks in Greece with Guy Cribb, 2 weeks in Maui including a lesson with Matt Prtichard and a weekend clinic with Simon Bornhoft, I still can't gybe properly. I think it's pretty safe to say there is zero challenge or achievement in being better than me. So would I find it fun to sail with people who derived their interest in windsurfing from beating me? No. I have years of stacked gybes to remind me of my lack of skill. I don't need competition to reinforce it. Yet the team nature of GPSTC makes it different. I'm only out there to beat me. And everyone else? Rather than being out there to beat me, they're on my side trying to help me beat me as well.

Don't get me wrong - individual competition is awesome and inspiring. Just check out the Green Island pics! And there are plenty of great formats that promote individual competition. But GPSTC has an amazingly friendly, supportive culture that is not based on individual competition. In its current format, it's for everyone. I would hate to ever see that change by even suggesting to our kids that windsurfing is only fun if you're winning or have a chance of winning.

You went to Fiji with Simon too? He is the reason I started going to Safety Bay, because the wind there is better. I can't imagine learning to gybe in anything but reasonably constant wind. Being able to go back and forward a lot between the sand bars really has helped me to learn.

Years of stacked gybes? You know what is worse? When I was in Fiji at Simon's clinic, the first time, I was just learning how to waterstart. So there I was in the middle of tonnes of coral at low tide, trying to waterstart, and finding it difficult in the swell. Well, instead of offering me some help or advice, this woman starts using me as a gybe marker! The shame of it all! I wonder what ever happened to her....

On another thing, it is interesting that Guy and Simon B seem to have very different styles.

I think the GPS thing creates a bit of competition, which is only fun. I am sure (uh huh!!) that I could go out and buy new gear and beat everyone else, but I choose not to, so the competition aspect is only for fun. Well, that's what I am telling everyone though ;-) I think we all love windsurfing, but the GPS thing creates just that extra bit of motivation.

Kids thrive on competing against each other. All the time. Its not taught to them, they just want to do it. If giving them a little bit of a mini competition encourages them, it sounds like a good thing.


P.S. Wazza will be cross if he discovers that you went to Fiji and didn't go to his lodge

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I am just getting a bit fed up with people who have not met me but call me competitive,a trophy hunter and living a vicarious relationship .They have all got one thing in common,they failed or couldn't be bothered teaching their own kids to windsurf.Your comment that you wouldn't want to sail in the same location as me wasn't cool and I'm guessing it was because you were just being a sheep ,laying the boot in with windsurfing parent failures,so I thought I'd have a bit of fun with you

Dude, let it go. Hanging onto stuff that people type on an internet forum is just plain bad for your health. This thread is supposed to be about fins anyway until you hijacked it.

Nicole,I have seen you sail once at Sanctuary point.I was a typical SP day ,pretty windy.As you were launching I was thinking gee, this chick is serious.You were using a Mistral like Spottys and a speedy sail.I think you didn't last long that day,the NEer at SP has a bit more punch in it than the rest of the coast and catches people by surprise.
The problem with hanging out with the GPSTC guys is that you will end up in the arms race ,only improving your numbers and not your personal performance.My advise to you would be to spend some time on FW/freeride gear and guys like AJ to become a stronger around sailor.Then go back and strap on the GPS and the unforgiving setup to confirm your progression.
Have fun and good luck with your goals and remember the best PBs aren't measured with a GPS.

Sorry I was a bit harsh last night,grumpy after having to deal with F#%$ing lawyers and I know I shouldn't post after drinking beer but I thought I was fine....Doh

I too can learn from AJs wisdom

That day at SP was about my second go on a slalom board, ever. I bought a 91 Mistral slalom after lots of research because the consensus seemed to be they are one of the most user-friendly slalom boards on the market. And to be honest it was a bit of rehab incentive after being off the water injured almost all of last year. The sail was a 4.6 Koncept. It is my only cammed sail. Wanna know what else I have? A FSW, a Skate, an Excite Ride along with some camless freerace and wave sails. I didn't last long that day because I had to drive to Eden that afternoon to sail at Mallacoota with Isaac the next two days.

Don't you think the list of trips and instructors in my post above shows I have been pretty committed to, and have made a considerable investment in, improving my skills? Buying a slalom board was just another attempt to broaden that experience and those skills. GPSTC has given me avenues to measure and improve other aspects of my own performance rather than just seeing an endless sea of stacked gybes. As well as giving me the chance to meet and keep in touch with lots of fantastic people.

Please don't judge me or my motivations based on my board selection on one day.

Thanks for your good luck wishes and same to you and your family. It was truly inspiring to watch Alex that day and I can't wait to watch him sail in the future.

AJE is extremely wise. Time I took his advice too

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FormulaNova said...
You went to Fiji with Simon too? He is the reason I started going to Safety Bay, because the wind there is better. I can't imagine learning to gybe in anything but reasonably constant wind. Being able to go back and forward a lot between the sand bars really has helped me to learn.
...

FN! You're a Simon C man!! He was so awesome - such a sad loss. I think I even know who you mean with the gybe mark. LOL. I actually hid from Wazza when I was there with Simon cos I thought he would be cross

I think seeing Simon B is considered cheating on Cribby too. It does fascinate me all the different styles and tips. I should see Jem Hall and Peter Hart then write a book

I was in Fiji with Simon C too, stayed for 4 weeks, and where I met Dale, and made the fatal error of gybing around him while he was drowning trying to waterstart. 10 years agao and he's never forgiven me.

Maybe we crossed paths there too Needsalt, i think it was just on 10 years ago? Simon was indeed a lovely guy.

Jem Hall helped me around my first gybes, try him next - Mauritius Oct 2015.

I reckon we learn most from people like Keef and Arkim and others at the local beaches, the encouragement they give others is second to none.

Bloody internet ! Just goes to show ,we're all experts but in the end we have no real idea.

Yeh, you don't need any gear or any tips just TOW.

Thats right ,we were talking about about fins....How about a blue one?
I'll paint mine blue and see how that suits you and the board first.Keef has made a huge variety ,you will need to try a few before you settle on just one.

A bit of a heads up for KA360 women don't usually like to be referred to as " a chick". Also not everybody has kids or are interested in them.

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Dezza said...
I was in Fiji with Simon C too, stayed for 4 weeks, and where I met Dale, and made the fatal error of gybing around him while he was drowning trying to waterstart. 10 years agao and he's never forgiven me.

It was you? I can't remember as I was gulping down seawater in between calls of 'help me, I'm drowning'. It was so traumatic!

Needsalt, I think you would have remembered meeting Dezza. I can't recall the other girl's name, but all I seem to remember was two of them drinking and enjoying themselves too much. Oh the laughter.. it didn't stop.

I went for 3 weeks one time and 1 or maybe 2 the next. I think Simon ran the trips for quite a few weeks each (both) seasons, so its quite likely you weren't on the same trip.

It seems Wazza wasn't too happy with me going there with Simon C, but at the time Wazza's trips were double the price of Simon's, plus you had to take your own gear, whereas Simon brought it all over from Safety Bay.


Fins? Who was talking about fins?

Keef, can I have one too please? Plain black is fine by me, but one in tuttle and another in powerbox would be good

I think I can hear your response already

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WayneKer said...
A bit of a heads up for KA360 women don't usually like to be referred to as " a chick". Also not everybody has kids or are interested in them.

Hey, did you ever realise your name.... ahh no, probably not.

I don't have kids either, but I used to be one. I would have loved someone helping me out trying to learn windsurfing when I was young. Its an expensive sport and hard to work out, and someone that can tell you what you need and how to get started is invaluable.

It would have stopped me buying an old style board, sail, and boom for a start, and there probably have been a few people that have become a little unhappy with the sport by buying gear that's not that easy to learn on.

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needsalt said...

FormulaNova said...
You went to Fiji with Simon too? He is the reason I started going to Safety Bay, because the wind there is better. I can't imagine learning to gybe in anything but reasonably constant wind. Being able to go back and forward a lot between the sand bars really has helped me to learn.
...

FN! You're a Simon C man!! He was so awesome - such a sad loss. I think I even know who you mean with the gybe mark. LOL. I actually hid from Wazza when I was there with Simon cos I thought he would be cross

I think seeing Simon B is considered cheating on Cribby too. It does fascinate me all the different styles and tips. I should see Jem Hall and Peter Hart then write a book

Just to take it further off topic, one of my memories of Simon's Fiji trips was being picked up from the airport by him and a friend of his, and driven to the wharf in the dodgiest taxi, and the whole time I spent watching the crazy driving of the taxi driver and everyone else in Fiji, and then turning around talking to Simon. I didn't think I'd make it.

Simon's friend, I can't remember her name, was about 50kgs dripping wet, and offered to let me use her 4.5m and 70 litre board when she saw I couldn't get going with my 120 litre board and 7m sail... She could sail pretty good, but didn't seem to understand much about the physics of it

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Dezza said...

I reckon we learn most from people like Keef and Arkim and others at the local beaches, the encouragement they give others is second to none.

hey Kenny take note man , if you want a few tips on how to get that speed board going get there early

All of this thread cos you made me a red fin to match my new board, awesome!