I think foiling is mature enough to have its own speed challenge website. If GPSTC or KA72 do not have the desire someone else will.
It would be great to collect ideas here, I start with a few:

- How to know you are not recording a slapper session? Let's leave it in good faith, if you have big numbers it's up to you to find a way to prove it; also it would be interesting to compare gps files to find the different patterns that foil sessions have
- Should we have different categories like race foils, freeride etc? Maybe it would be enough to record foil , board and sail with the session
- Should we keep the teams ? Only based on wide geographical area..
- Include the windwing? maybe not, too different
- ..ehm... approved devices?
- etc...

I would sign up for that if you can get it running
KA72 would suit me and they already have foiling option when loading the file. but would be happy to load other sites as well
One open class for starters for all i reckon then expand into divisions as numbers grow
Cheers Tony

upwind/downwind vmg categories would be cool

Low speed delight

wagp3s04-foil.azurewebsites.net/

I've been wondering is it possible to measure altitude with gps data? I know there is a device for kiting that measures the height of jumps. With altitude data you might to able to measure things like foiling gybes, longest flight time or anything you like relating to the altitude data.

Foiling is not really about speed for me. It's more about stable and easy flight when I'm free foiling and good angles upwind and down when I'm racing. I don't know if you would get enough people for a race foiling section but I think a free foiling section with flight related categories might be popular.

Garmin might make a watch that could do it.

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powersloshin said..
I think foiling is mature enough to have its own speed challenge website. If GPSTC or KA72 do not have the desire someone else will.
It would be great to collect ideas here, I start with a few:

- How to know you are not recording a slapper session? Let's leave it in good faith, if you have big numbers it's up to you to find a way to prove it; also it would be interesting to compare gps files to find the different patterns that foil sessions have
- Should we have different categories like race foils, freeride etc? Maybe it would be enough to record foil , board and sail with the session
- Should we keep the teams ? Only based on wide geographical area..
- Include the windwing? maybe not, too different
- ..ehm... approved devices?
- etc...

as for ka72, it's there, up to any member to create a group, choose the speed/distance/alpha categories you want to count in your group ranking and voila !

A foiling group on KA72 offers a place we could go to check out others track logs around Australia on any given day at a click of the keyboard
I am not caught up with who went the fastest etc
Other fields of information are just there for personal goals and interest
I am not after a group with bragging rights, we can leave that to the speed sailors
Also KA72 allows for a lot more device options so that makes it much easier to contribute as well

yes I think it is a good idea, but I would like also to see all people's sessions together like we have in gpstc, and details about the conditions and equipment. I wonder if there is a pro user that foils and is willing to set up a group. Becoming a pro user is a bit expensive, US$121 per year, which is probably close to $200 AU. It is a bit unfair that only the person that creates the group has to be a payer, while all the ones that join can do it for free...

Being allowed to post sessions to the GTC with a Garmin watch would be a good start

One option I see guys doing is having two logins / names on the GPSTC. One for slapping and one for foiling. It keeps their numbers separate in the history / pbs etc.

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DarrylG said..
One option I see guys doing is having two logins / names on the GPSTC. One for slapping and one for foiling. It keeps their numbers separate in the history / pbs etc.

Be good to still have all stats going to your total but Foil Post under a sub cat to yourself. Im not IT so no idea!!lol

This thread may get more interest in the foiling section
Either way it seems while I am interested to put an aussie foiling KA72 group together and couple of others here, most prefer just to go sailing without and gps on board
I can live with that
KA72 already gives me some stats and track logs so i can follow my own journey

NOOO!
If they make a foiling section I'll have no locals to post with..

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sboardcrazy said..
NOOO!
If they make a foiling section I'll have no locals to post with..

Buy a foil ya slapper ??

You only want a foil only section because there so slow and numbers are embarrassing compared to conventional windsurfing lol.

my numbers are embarrassing compared to yours even on a speed board

More fun posting on the GPSTC so other people can appreciate you are out there having fun

To answer Cluffy's question, yes, GPS does indeed measure altitude. GPS is 3-dimensional and measures in all 3 dimensions.

The issue is whether the software is set up to display verticals. Every hiking GPS in existence shows altitude. My automotive GPS shows altitude. I like this because I drive in the mountains.

I prefer GPS altitude over barometric altitude since barometric varies with weather pressures.

Since, in our sport, we are always on the water surface, altitude is a non-issue. If you are a jumping kiterboarder, yes, this might be a nice piece of information. The data is in there. It gets collected. You just have to get it out and display it.

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segler said..
To answer Cluffy's question, yes, GPS does indeed measure altitude. GPS is 3-dimensional and measures in all 3 dimensions.

The issue is whether the software is set up to display verticals. Every hiking GPS in existence shows altitude. My automotive GPS shows altitude. I like this because I drive in the mountains.

I prefer GPS altitude over barometric altitude since barometric varies with weather pressures.

Since, in our sport, we are always on the water surface, altitude is a non-issue. If you are a jumping kiterboarder, yes, this might be a nice piece of information. The data is in there. It gets collected. You just have to get it out and display it.

I think it would never be precise enough to tell you if you are flying or not, checked one of my files in gpsresults and you can show altitude, but data does not make much sense.

The best altitude measurement you are going to get from a hand held GPS is probably about +- 5m, which is not much use for measuring if you are flying or not. Many sports watches use pressure and sometimes even the accelerometer to determine altitude. My Garmin can produce fairly flat altitude graphs when foiling, perhaps +- 1 metre. But it is nowhere near good enough to judge if flying or not.

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powersloshin said..

segler said..
To answer Cluffy's question, yes, GPS does indeed measure altitude. GPS is 3-dimensional and measures in all 3 dimensions.

The issue is whether the software is set up to display verticals. Every hiking GPS in existence shows altitude. My automotive GPS shows altitude. I like this because I drive in the mountains.

I prefer GPS altitude over barometric altitude since barometric varies with weather pressures.

Since, in our sport, we are always on the water surface, altitude is a non-issue. If you are a jumping kiterboarder, yes, this might be a nice piece of information. The data is in there. It gets collected. You just have to get it out and display it.

I think it would never be precise enough to tell you if you are flying or not, checked one of my files in gpsresults and you can show altitude, but data does not make much sense.

Correct. not even remotely precise enough for that, Altitude is the least accurate output of a conventional GPS device. Geostationary tests, that anyone can do, clearlyly show indicated Altitude will vary enormously.

Incorporating accelerometers may be a solution for that purpose.

Thanks for input fellas

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powersloshin said..
my numbers are embarrassing compared to yours even on a speed board

+1..

I was wondering how GPSTeam challenge gets funded, there is no advertising on the site, and I guess the space requirements are huge, with all the posts and photos that people upload. Only sponsors quoted are HydroDynamix which seems out of business, Seabreeze and ZenSoft which also seems to be obsolete....

My vision for the foiling equivalent would be to have only large teams, say continent based, remove the full list of members from the daily sessions page; add board,sail, foil, wind range fields to the record. The categories will stay the same unless ka72 or any other software is ready to calculate more relevant ones.
Would add stats pages this way members would be able to check which equipment has been used in which conditions, what is more popular , how many sessions or kms they have had with a particular rig, etc.
Probably would remove the comments outside posting as it is mainly for social purposes...

Oooh dear, I hope this isn't another discussion about changing the GPSTC
The owners made it abundantly clear they are the owners and will shut it down if people continue to make constructive suggestions.
That is their prerogative.
Best to just leave it alone or this thread, like others, will just descend into pages of nastiness and name calling.
If you want the comp to evolve with sub categories etc, better to either engage with KA72 or create a completely new comp.

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powersloshin said..
Only sponsors quoted are HydroDynamix which seems out of business, Seabreeze and ZenSoft which also seems to be obsolete....

My vision for the foiling equivalent would be

Hydrodynamix may well be back in business now that everyone has changed their attitude towards Australian made and prepared to pay more for quality products

So when will we see this new Foiling Equivalent you are proposing
Ask Nebs/Zensoft & Hardy for some tips

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Stretchy said..
Oooh dear, I hope this isn't another discussion about changing the GPSTC
The owners made it abundantly clear they are the owners and will shut it down if people continue to make constructive suggestions.
That is their prerogative.
Best to just leave it alone or this thread, like others, will just descend into pages of nastiness and name calling.
If you want the comp to evolve with sub categories etc, better to either engage with KA72 or create a completely new comp.

Gpstc team are doing a great job and a great service to our community, and is not my intention to start arguing or demanding.

The GPSTC runs on the smell of an oily rag. From time to time we get money from team t-shirts sales, or a donate button on the website.

This looks interesting?

windfoilfan.glissattitude.com/

The peak speed is overstated buy three kts but the others are OK. The flight ratio seems fairly close, to the best of my memory. Not sure how they are calculating flight.

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decrepit said..
The GPSTC runs on the smell of an oily rag. From time to time we get money from team t-shirts sales, or a donate button on the website.

Gpstc needs financial support. Each sailor could surely kick in an annual fee. I contribute to KA72. I use both sites and feel that nothing is free at the expense of others. Just not the Aussie way.

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BSN101 said..
Gpstc needs financial support. Each sailor could surely kick in an annual fee. I contribute to KA72. I use both sites and feel that nothing is free at the expense of others. Just not the Aussie way.

It doesn't need much in the way of money, there's an annual fee for the server, and somehow Nebs has arranged a good deal on that. A surplus of money would be an embarrassment, we'd start to look like an organisation and officialdom may get interested.