Do we know what is actually speed record for windsurfing foil?
It will be quite interesting to learn what is actually top speed ever achieved on wind foil, but also records for of the shelve commercial sets.

www.windfoilzone.com/post/windfoil-speed

Dont worry Antoine XYZ is on to it.

Hold the Outright record for making it onto the Buy Swap and Sell pages

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choco said..
Hold the Outright record for making it onto the Buy Swap and Sell pages

Macro the best thing about foiling is it is not about speed.
Lets hope it stays that way.

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Cocky2 said..

choco said..
Hold the Outright record for making it onto the Buy Swap and Sell pages

Macro the best thing about foiling is it is not about speed.
Lets hope it stays that way.

The fastest sailing boat is SailRocket.

Which uses foils.

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mathew said..

Cocky2 said..

choco said..
Hold the Outright record for making it onto the Buy Swap and Sell pages

Macro the best thing about foiling is it is not about speed.
Lets hope it stays that way.

The fastest sailing boat is SailRocket.

Which uses foils.

Macro is talking about windsurfing foils.

Nicolas Goyard clocked 33+ on 500m it seems

but for us mere mortals anything close to 25/2sec is like lightspeed !!!!

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seanhogan said..
Nicolas Goyard clocked 33+ on 500m it seems

but for us mere mortals anything close to 25/2sec is like lightspeed !!!!

yeah i hit 22 knots and i couldnt slow down or turn jumping off didnt look like an option either

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Cocky2 said..

Macro is talking about windsurfing foils.

Your message implies that there is no merit to determine if foils are capable of achieving speeds which exceed the existing speed-records. Since it is a young field of expertise, Macro's question is valid - what top-speeds or average-course-racing-speed are possible ?

ie: your implication is that windsurfing is nothing like other sailing craft, so whatever those are capable of, has absolutely no bearing on what is possible with a windsurfing foil.

I remember several discussions about this years ago. Most ideas were hastily discounted because of one perceived roadblock or another.

I always keep an open mind.

History usually proves the naysayers wrong too. For instance I remember people ridiculing Hot Sails Maui's early 1990's design for a wide luff pocket racing sail....mmmm....now what happened to racing sails......?

If Sailrocket did 70knots all on foils, I see no reason windsurfers can't also go fast on foils. No doubt much smaller foils but foils nonetheless.

Like proper speed sailing it won't be for everyone and that's just fine - but seriously - what's wrong with going fast and why would anyone want to "keep foiling slow"?

I'd guess either 2 foils are needed, ala Miller foils, or a super long fuselage to create stability at high speeds.

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Simon100 said..

seanhogan said..
Nicolas Goyard clocked 33+ on 500m it seems

but for us mere mortals anything close to 25/2sec is like lightspeed !!!!

yeah i hit 22 knots and i couldnt slow down or turn jumping off didnt look like an option either

I agree, 22 knots is the speed where you are thinking holy s*^#t im going very fast, what happens now? I also get that feeling doing 33 knots sailing conventionally.

Adriano...
George Greenough designed the first wide luff sail in 1980, and Aeroforce put out a production copy in '84. Give credit to the Aussies.

Most, if not all sailing craft use 'Foils". On a conventional windsurfer, we call them a 'Fin', or a centreboard.

Sailrocket 2 is quite unique, and it is nothing like "Foiling' windsurfers, or any other sailing craft that I know of. The biggest difference is that it does not use any foils in the water for 'Lift' (to hold it up out of the water). It's main foil in the water is actually holding it DOWN. Sailrocket 2 is also partly a planning craft. The front fotation and steering pod 'planes' at top speed (even if it appears to be barely touching the water) and has a 'fin' type foil for some directional control.

The largest factor limiting top speed with current windsurfer 'Foiling' designs is the fixed amount of surface area under the water of the 'foils'.
That is, a planing hull, (eg. windsurfing speed board) rises higher in the water and planes on a decreasing surface area as it goes faster. This reduces drag to some degree. With current design Windsurfing 'foils', there is no reduction in surface area and therefore drag reduction in more limited as speed increases. One would have to employ much smaller 'foils' for faster speeds,with the attendant difficulty of rising on the foils to start.

Some foiling craft have employed a foiling setup that auto reduced the foil surface in the water as speeds increased. Hydropter is a good example, and it has indeed, well exceeded 50 Knots. Perhaps a craft that employed a windsurfing type stance and rig, and this type of reducing foil area might be faster???

Probably not a world record but fast enough to make me not want to try:
Video of the "Loke conviviale"
www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj6ss_gqsDeAhUNbVAKHdy7C0gQtwIwAHoECAcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX7iE58mK5Ds&usg=AOvVaw2X1z1ENAafXDn-rjfHZi6E

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sailquik said..
Most, if not all sailing craft use 'Foils". On a conventional windsurfer, we call them a 'Fin', or a centreboard.

Sailrocket 2 is quite unique, and it is nothing like "Foiling' windsurfers, or any other sailing craft that I know of. The biggest difference is that it does not use any foils in the water for 'Lift' (to hold it up out of the water). It's main foil in the water is actually holding it DOWN. Sailrocket 2 is also partly a planning craft. The front fotation and steering pod 'planes' at top speed (even if it appears to be barely touching the water) and has a 'fin' type foil for some directional control.

The largest factor limiting top speed with current windsurfer 'Foiling' designs is the fixed amount of surface area under the water of the 'foils'.
That is, a planing hull, (eg. windsurfing speed board) rises higher in the water and planes on a decreasing surface area as it goes faster. This reduces drag to some degree. With current design Windsurfing 'foils', there is no reduction in surface area and therefore drag reduction in more limited as speed increases. One would have to employ much smaller 'foils' for faster speeds,with the attendant difficulty of rising on the foils to start.

Some foiling craft have employed a foiling setup that auto reduced the foil surface in the water as speeds increased. Hydropter is a good example, and it has indeed, well exceeded 50 Knots. Perhaps a craft that employed a windsurfing type stance and rig, and this type of reducing foil area might be faster???

This^^^

and of course some sort of lobotomy.

A few of the foilers have done 30+ in some crazy winter fronts over here, but the only way to reduce wetted surface (putting aside changing foil size) on the current windfoil config is to go up till youre riding the bottom of the mast, something youre trying to avoid when its windy. And once youre at the top of the world thats as much as you can reduce wetted surface by.

We'll have to change foil configurations and reduce foil sizes and shapes to go faster. Im pretty sure those early reports of foils beating slalom gear around a slalom course were either misrepresented or wildly embelished.

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Subsonic said..
Im pretty sure those early reports of foils beating slalom gear around a slalom course were either misrepresented or wildly embelished.

I must have missed those. I've seen reports about foils beating formula and slalom gear in courses that include upwind legs, like triangle courses and "around the island" races. I've seen a couple of such races where both formula and foils were out, and it was no contest. Of course, formula boards have a lower top speed than slalom boards, but upwind and downwind angles tend to be more important than top speed in the races.

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boardsurfr said..

Subsonic said..
Im pretty sure those early reports of foils beating slalom gear around a slalom course were either misrepresented or wildly embelished.

I must have missed those. I've seen reports about foils beating formula and slalom gear in courses that include upwind legs, like triangle courses and "around the island" races. I've seen a couple of such races where both formula and foils were out, and it was no contest. Of course, formula boards have a lower top speed than slalom boards, but upwind and downwind angles tend to be more important than top speed in the races.

Of course a foil is going to beat slalom kit around a course with upwind legs. Hence why i said it must have been misrepresented. I've heard slalom gear has been beaten down a slalom course with some degree of regularity, which must be chinese whispers. Maybe the racing being talked about took place in marginal slalom conditions, dunno.

I just had max gps speed 30 km/h on 40cm fin and 40km/h on a foil. 5 m sail, same time, same board. Wind was just enough to get on plane on 5m sail but just right for the foil. 1 out of 10 days wind is strong enough for fin to win vs foil in speed.

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ZYX said..
I just had max gps speed 30 km/h on 40cm fin and 40km/h on a foil. 5 m sail, same time, same board. Wind was just enough to get on plane on 5m sail but just right for the foil. 1 out of 10 days wind is strong enough for fin to win vs foil in speed.

Admirable. Going that slow with a 40 cm fin is not something that is easy. Refusing to rig up to a proper sail for the wind strength, however, is somewhat more common.

Yes, it takes more sail for a fin to go as fast as the foil at about 90 % of the wind conditions.
I think I rigged a correct sail: arrived at my spot, checked wind, rigged the most pleasant to use for the conditions. Confirmed on the fin that my setup was right. If I did not have a foil I would rig 9m and perhaps get similar speed. Ask yourself what rigging is more proper: 9m on fin or 5m on a foil if both go the same speed, but foil is better upwind?

What ever floats your boat man.

You do you.

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ZYX said..
Yes, it takes more sail for a fin to go as fast as the foil at about 90 % of the wind conditions.
I think I rigged a correct sail: arrived at my spot, checked wind, rigged the most pleasant to use for the conditions. Confirmed on the fin that my setup was right. If I did not have a foil I would rig 9m and perhaps get similar speed. Ask yourself what rigging is more proper: 9m on fin or 5m on a foil if both go the same speed, but foil is better upwind?

This thread was about the fastest Windfoil - not the slowest... Everyone knows foils are more efficient. Someone who is concerned about speed is not concerned about too big a sail. The will ride the biggest sail they can efficiently control within reason. If the windfoil was faster than you should go faster with a 9.0 on the foil right? .... You won't.

Kite foils are already going more than 40knts
With enough skill, guts & development of specialist speed foils it's only a matter of time before a windsurfing foil tops the speed ranks
It may not need to be gale force winds like with a fin on due to their high efficiency.
Yes it will be more dangerous than on a fin but that won't stop the brave.

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tonyk said..
Kite foils are already going more than 40knts
With enough skill, guts & development of specialist speed foils it's only a matter of time before a windsurfing foil tops the speed ranks
It may not need to be gale force winds like with a fin on due to their high efficiency.
Yes it will be more dangerous than on a fin but that won't stop the brave.

Of course it is possible, & likely to be in the future. But not nearly there yet. Currently the kite record is at 55.49kts so just about as much faster as windsurfers on fins vs foils

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gorgesailor said..

tonyk said..
Kite foils are already going more than 40knts
With enough skill, guts & development of specialist speed foils it's only a matter of time before a windsurfing foil tops the speed ranks
It may not need to be gale force winds like with a fin on due to their high efficiency.
Yes it will be more dangerous than on a fin but that won't stop the brave.

Of course it is possible, & likely to be in the future. But not nearly there yet. Currently the kite record is at 55.49kts so just about as much faster as windsurfers on fins vs foils

George i think you're the man to crank it up

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gorgesailor said..
... you should go faster with a 9.0 on the foil right?

Almost right. You should go faster with larger sail up to a critical speed. Your maximum speed is probably not even 25 knots and does not get better even if you increase sail size. I am sure most of the foilers here have reached their maximum under 25 and cannot go faster even with more sail.
There is a specific engineering reason for the speed limit when increasing sail size does not help any more.
This is why I noted about ratio of the foil speed/wind speed is because this ratio is the key for higher maximum speed. For example, if your foil speed can be 3 times more than the wind speed your maximum speed will be higher in comparison to a foil with speed ratio 2 even with a smaller sail. Lightest wind you can fly is the best to find your foil/wind speed ratio.
Without getting into engineering specifics of this paradox, it can be explained similar to foil wings. Smaller foil wing goes faster. Similar, smaller sail is more effective at high speed. The better the foil the lower the wind speed when smaller sail propels you faster than a large sail.

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ZYX said..

There is a specific engineering reason for the speed limit when increasing sail size does not help any more.

An excellent point. And the same principle actutually applies to slapper Windsurfing, but it is not always obvious.

Gorge,
If you are really from Gorge, where would be the best spot for someone i know to foil there?
Perhaps, watch you foiling and compare.

Here is another method to improve foil speed from Russia. Works on flat. When foil gets close to the surface it goes faster because of less mast under water and reduced drag of the wing. The only problem is that foils do not like flying on the surface. I am not sure what makes it work on this video: the skill of the rider or the forgiveness of this foil design. I calculate 34 km/h speed from this video:

Apparently, the video is recorded during the current world championship at the same location.

The silence is deafening

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Swindy said..
The silence is deafening

I'll bite

How is 18 knots demonstrating "a method to improve foil speed"?

Maybe the rider is super-skilled - but based on that ride what does that say about the foil?