Guys,
I've been wavesailing on the East Coast of Oz for decades and just decided to use my fat arse and heavy weight frame to learn to speedsail. Can anyone recommend any YouTube links, social media feeds or other websites I can check out? Any tips and offer of help would be appreciated. cheers Jason Juretic
Sydney

Your mate has a great video on this Jason. I think another at Luderitz.



Give me a call when you want to go. I'll get the team together.
Should also join the Gustbusters and be part of the GPSTC

+1, join a GPSTC team and get out with the others (post-Covid) and you will advance rapidly.
speed tips: find a good flat water spot, mast track back, bear away in the gusts - more than you are used to.

As Stretchy says, it's all pretty basic really.

Fast Freeride/Slalom/Speed board,

Suitable fin for the size of board and sail, Freeride or slalom/speed sail, and, contrary to common myth, bigger sail is not always faster. Balance, control and efficiency always counts.
.
Then you need the flattest water you can find.

Bear away in the gusts to 35-45 degrees broader than beam reaching, (125-135 off the wind) The stronger the wind, the broader you can go and the faster you will go.

That will get you up to pretty good speeds to start with. Probably over 80% of the potential of your stuff and the situation.

After that it is just refining the setup of you gear and your technique. You can get basic tips and principles, but there are no absolute rules about technique and setup that works in every scenario, its more of a suck it and see and refinement learning curve.

By far the biggest factor in going fast is being in the right place at the right time (on the right gear).

Oh, and get a suitable GPS so you can track your progress and join in the fun on GPSTC.

Look +100m in front of the board because when you get quick that's 4 sec's away.

As far as trim and technique go, this is my take on things.

Speed is all about leverage and trim.

Leverage:

The taller and heavier you are gives you a natural advantage here, but everyone can still optimise.

Get you body as far as possible from the rig and the sail as upright as possible for max leverage. Longer Harness line and lower hook position, and even a slightly wider boom can help here. Also moving the front straps back further helps you get your centre of mass up higher and outboard further on a broad reach.(= more leverage)

Have you harness lines set so there is a neutral balance and you can feel the pressure in the rig. (Not nessasarily closer together) This way you can play with sheeting angle and 'feel' when you have got the sail working best. Dont oversheet. This can stall the sail and lower the forward component of the lift. It also makes a danger of over loading the fin. Mal Wrights big tip always was "Sheet Out". In other words, have the sail sheeting to the minimum angle possible to develop good flow and lift. Many people have a tendancy to over sheet and this lowers efficiency and promotes the liklyhood of 'spin out'. (I have a theory that this is why overly twisted sails work well for some people - it auto compensates for a tendency to oversheet)

Trim:

Get your mast track back a bit more than usual. This stands the rig up a bit more. You want to try and 'fly' the board so less is in the water, but this is a balance between control and speed.

Efficient fin: Not too big or too much drag and lose control. Not too small or board can't 'fly' and fin will have to work at a high angle of attack with more drag until you get to max top speed, which can limit accelleration as well.

Slightly more downhaul can sometimes help the board to fly, but don't overdo it and kill the power, stability, efficiency and balance of the sail. You want you sail set deep down low. On a speed run deep downwind, you almost cant have the outhaul too loose and the sail too deep! Adjustable outhauls help a lot here.

Some people say that putting the boom higher helps the board to 'fly', but, while I cant confirm that yet from personal experience, it's certainly worth a try

Some board designs 'Fly' more readily than others. A combination of rocker, outline, cutaways and width can make quite a difference, but there is definitly a balance here. I remember riding Chris Lockwoods first Prototype Carbon Art 44 speed board in around 2006? and being scared it was about to 'take off' on the whole run. It was super fast but super scary for me. But it worked perfectly for him being taller and heavier than me. He suggested (and was 100% correct) that I would be better off on the Carbon Art 40. He did dial the production CA44 back a bit though.

Another example, my JP54 Slalom (70L), which I love riding, sits very flat on the water at 25-to 35 knots speed and is super smooth and controllable over chop. I can get it to 'fly' a bit better at over 35 knots on flat 'rattle' water, but it naturally does not want to do that with my weight. I have yet to quite crack a 40 peak on it. But Jimbob, who is maybe 6-8 KG heaver than me, regularly cracks 40kt's on the exact same board in the same conditions. You have to find what works for your size and weight. My recently acquired 2017 Starboard Isonic 80 is wider, (59) has more volume (80L) but within a few good sessions I had cracked 40 knots 2 sec on it, simply because, for my weight and size, it flys easier, and yet still is very controllable. It has a quite different rocker line and bottom outline. It's often difficult to try different boards in good conditions, but you can usually see what is working for others who are similar height and weight.

Finally, it is combination of the gear and sailor that gets PB's. No one part of the gear is the Magic Bullet that can over ride all the other parts. There will always be a sweet spot of combination of board. fin, sail and sailor that is ideal for a certain set of conditions. Finding that is a big part of make this challenge of speed so much fun.

and cammed sails

Welcome Jason !!

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elmo said..
Look +100m in front of the board because when you get quick that's 4 sec's away.

2 sec if ya Sailquick

Jason seeing as you're a wave sailor I'm guessing you love the ocean, get a fast freeride board and see how fast you can go down through the swell lines, not as fast as flat water but can be bloody exciting. No joke just my 2c
If flat water speed sailing is what you're really after, don't go nuts on gear, all you need is a good slalom board & 3 cam sail, chase people and get get some local advice, join a team. I've watched a very good sailor do 40 on a 2nd hand $500 130L board, just saying

Cheers GuysI will have a good read and view of the info you've shared. If anyone else has got anything to share just add it below - COVID-19 has created a lot of time for me atm I've purchased a second hand Fanatic Falcon 99, plus 30cm fin and 5.6m2 cambered sail so basics are in place to have a crack. cheers again Jason

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powersloshin said..
and cammed sails

Welcome Jason !!

Yep.

And that 30cm fin will be good to hang your wetsuit on.

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sailquik said..
As far as trim and technique go, this is my take on things.

Speed is all about leverage and trim.

Leverage:

The taller and heavier you are gives you a natural advantage here, but everyone can still optimise.

Get you body as far as possible from the rig and the sail as upright as possible for max leverage. Longer Harness line and lower hook position, and even a slightly wider boom can help here. Also moving the front straps back further helps you get your centre of mass up higher and outboard further on a broad reach.(= more leverage)

Have you harness lines set so there is a neutral balance and you can feel the pressure in the rig. (Not nessasarily closer together) This way you can play with sheeting angle and 'feel' when you have got the sail working best. Dont oversheet. This can stall the sail and lower the forward component of the lift. It also makes a danger of over loading the fin. Mal Wrights big tip always was "Sheet Out". In other words, have the sail sheeting to the minimum angle possible to develop good flow and lift. Many people have a tendancy to over sheet and this lowers efficiency and promotes the liklyhood of 'spin out'. (I have a theory that this is why overly twisted sails work well for some people - it auto compensates for a tendency to oversheet)

Trim:

Get your mast track back a bit more than usual. This stands the rig up a bit more. You want to try and 'fly' the board so less is in the water, but this is a balance between control and speed.

Efficient fin: Not too big or too much drag and lose control. Not too small or board can't 'fly' and fin will have to work at a high angle of attack with more drag until you get to max top speed, which can limit accelleration as well.

Slightly more downhaul can sometimes help the board to fly, but don't overdo it and kill the power, stability, efficiency and balance of the sail. You want you sail set deep down low. On a speed run deep downwind, you almost cant have the outhaul too loose and the sail too deep! Adjustable outhauls help a lot here.

Some people say that putting the boom higher helps the board to 'fly', but, while I cant confirm that yet from personal experience, it's certainly worth a try

Some board designs 'Fly' more readily than others. A combination of rocker, outline, cutaways and width can make quite a difference, but there is definitly a balance here. I remember riding Chris Lockwoods first Prototype Carbon Art 44 speed board in around 2006? and being scared it was about to 'take off' on the whole run. It was super fast but super scary for me. But it worked perfectly for him being taller and heavier than me. He suggested (and was 100% correct) that I would be better off on the Carbon Art 40. He did dial the production CA44 back a bit though.

Another example, my JP54 Slalom (70L), which I love riding, sits very flat on the water at 25-to 35 knots speed and is super smooth and controllable over chop. I can get it to 'fly' a bit better at over 35 knots on flat 'rattle' water, but it naturally does not want to do that with my weight. I have yet to quite crack a 40 peak on it. But Jimbob, who is maybe 6-8 KG heaver than me, regularly cracks 40kt's on the exact same board in the same conditions. You have to find what works for your size and weight. My recently acquired 2017 Starboard Isonic 80 is wider, (59) has more volume (80L) but within a few good sessions I had cracked 40 knots 2 sec on it, simply because, for my weight and size, it flys easier, and yet still is very controllable. It has a quite different rocker line and bottom outline. It's often difficult to try different boards in good conditions, but you can usually see what is working for others who are similar height and weight.

Finally, it is combination of the gear and sailor that gets PB's. No one part of the gear is the Magic Bullet that can over ride all the other parts. There will always be a sweet spot of combination of board. fin, sail and sailor that is ideal for a certain set of conditions. Finding that is a big part of make this challenge of speed so much fun.

Thanks Daffy so many good points been speed sailing for 20 years and reinforces something's I have learnt over the years and also brings in a few new ones . Not realising until now i think i may be oversheeting on my bearaways. I also remember Kato saying at speed week a long time ago to concentrate on improving multiple things 10% each e.g. tuning of gear, stance etc.
After all these years sailing down Geelong way with the cremasters now The Bridesmaids, I still can't get my head around why Jaques k and Tony W, seem to be able to get so much better speeds than me and a lot of other sailors, all on similar gear. Is it shear strength, technique gear, or gear setup. I bear away on fairly good gear everything feels right these guys are getting 40 knts or so and I'm only getting 35. Also Red and Roh same team getting good speeds. These guys have slowly got faster and faster but it has taken a few years.
Back to my question is it strength, ,technique, gear or gear setup. Probably a combination of all of these.
I don't think gear has improved dramatically over the last ten years.
10 years ago 40 knots was not uncommon.
Keep the tips coming as this is very valuable and only really learnt from the internet or talking to other sailors and observing their gear, set up.

Hi Dale, it's been awhile. It's a bit of all of the above as you said. Strength is but a small part, being comfortable of your gear is no 1.
Mal W would talk about not moving around on your gear when you're set, make the wind move you and your gear. Not you and your body position. Every time the water line increases with movement, you go slower. Core exercise can help. Don't be scared on chasing different set up either, every change can teach you something.
Good luck

The only time I've found strength to be a factor, is water starting a very small sinker. The harness should be doing most of the work the rest of the time.

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KA360 said..
Your mate has a great video on this Jason. I think another at Luderitz.

Give me a call when you want to go. I'll get the team together.
Should also join the Gustbusters and be part of the GPSTC

Cheers Akim, I found his part 2 at Luderitz

G'day Dale, I dont think 'Strength' is always a major factor. Sure, I was strong in my younger days, but I sure aint now that I am 68. I always set up my gear to take all the strain off my body as much as possible, otherwise I wouldn't still be able to do it.

That said, before going to Luderitz in 2013, I spent the whole year going to the Gym to try to regain some core strength and upper body strength, as I anticipated that I would be spending a lot of time hanging under the boom trying to waterstart with 8-10Kg of lead on. It was true, and it paid off,

Fitness is important for sure, as the young fit guys at Sandy Point like Kato, Ado and Mat sail upwind a lot more than I now can on the big days and get more runs. They are also more likely to be in the right place when a squall comes through. Sandy Point in a storm is very physically tiring.

On the other hand, this year after a couple of weeks at Lake George, I was fit enough to be able to circulate speed laps for well over an hour, but the conditions there are very different.

IMHO, it's more about setup and 'feel', and then the subleties of leverage and stance come into play. It's the whole package. If you compromise on the sail (oh I cant be bothered going in and changing now the conditions have changed, i'll just crank on some more DH), or the fin, (same) or the board (same), you my never be on just the right combo at the right time. I know quite a few people who 'just go out on what I know I can get back on', or, 'the fin that I know will be easy if I have to waterstart in the thickest weed', or 'the fin I will be able to get back upwind easier', rather than what is ideal for speed on the actual run. Speed sailing is very tactical and punishes compromise, lack of commitment or lazy. The guys I mentioned above, will often make the extra effort rig two or more sails, and have a couple of different boards sitting on the beach just so they can take advantage when the conditions change, or if they find what they are on is not working ideally.

This is also where all the subtle, refined skills come together. You can ride the smaller board, or the more effecient fin with confidence because you know you can jibe it without falling in and having to waterstart in that thick weed patch, and sail upwind efficiently on that gear and not end up stranded on the downwind bank, etc, because you have had the drive and commitment to do it so many times, that you have those skills down now.

The last thing is harder to describe. It's about 'feeling' the power and pull of the sail and the best angle to sail in the gust. A big one, as Kato mentioned, is to try to minimise body and sail movement. Smoooooth as you can. Board as steady as you can. Dont overmuscle it, Don't oversheet it, relax your back leg slightly so you dont shockload the fin. Feel the sweet spot. Flow with it, don't try to force it.

Sometimes, in PB conditions, it's normal to be ****ting yourself, but focus, trust, relax and don't panic.

All so very true but it takes lots of time on water to know what to do, when starting out just get something easy and controllable, work on 40's when you know what you're doing

some great advise here ...i too am a newbie to GPS ,Sailing ,,,2 years now on no-cam sails and freeride boards ,got some good speeds ,then i couldn't get past the 33 knot barrier ...so last summer i brought a second hand 92 litre slalom board ..within 3 days of getting it in the great WA breeze i had 35,8 knots ,in quite rough conditions ...but it made me realise a fast slalom board is the key ,and a little smaller than what you usually ride ,as i found it easier to keep it down in the water ...i reckon i may of been able to go a lot faster if i had race sails ...rather than my no-cams ...so only this last week ,i brought 2x 4 cam sails ...5,7 & 6,3 ..and correct mast to match ..i feel now I'm ready for the next big blow ...look out 40 here I come ..
now to find a nice flat day with the right tide ,wind direction and the will to just let it go ...
it seems to me now ...you build up a good speed...then you find a good gust ..then just shoot down wind as deep as you dare ..
and let it go ...it just feels like your floating after you hit the 35 knot mark ...such a awesome feeling ...enjoy the ride .and i hope to get as fast as these buggers ...tardy .

Thanks for the tips and advice guys, I've now read and watched them all! I had my first crack with my new second hand Fanatic Falcon $550 and with borrowed a mates 6.4 race sail, headed to Primbee on Friday and managed 35 knots. I'm very happy with that for my first go. BUT no-one mentioned the razor clams at Primbee - 10 stitches later - ohhh the joy!

So my next question, was I just very unlucky or do I need to buy wet suit shoes for Primbee?

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jase54 said..
Thanks for the tips and advice guys, I've now read and watched them all! I had my first crack with my new second hand Fanatic Falcon $550 and with borrowed a mates 6.4 race sail, headed to Primbee on Friday and managed 35 knots. I'm very happy with that for my first go. BUT no-one mentioned the razor clams at Primbee - 10 stitches later - ohhh the joy!

So my next question, was I just very unlucky or do I need to buy wet suit shoes for Primbee?

Great first go! Congrats..It gets bleedin cold down there over winter so I think your feet will appreciate booties anyway..
The one time I went there was the first time my feet went numb sailing and I couldn't find the straps..

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jase54 said..
Thanks for the tips and advice guys, I've now read and watched them all! I had my first crack with my new second hand Fanatic Falcon $550 and with borrowed a mates 6.4 race sail, headed to Primbee on Friday and managed 35 knots. I'm very happy with that for my first go. BUT no-one mentioned the razor clams at Primbee - 10 stitches later - ohhh the joy!

So my next question, was I just very unlucky or do I need to buy wet suit shoes for Primbee?

I'd say you were unlucky, I've sailed there a lot with bare feet over the years and never had a cut....that said freestyle gear so I can sail once I'm 10m off the beach so not walking huge distances, some of the speed sailors walk out a fair way.

Booties are probably worth it if you intend to take advantage of the winter westerlies though, it gets bloody cold on the feet sans booties in winter.

Most of the razorfish risk is down the southern end of the speedstrip. I believe the northern end around the Bundah Place launch area is pretty safe. I'ts well trodden by windsurfers and kiters I don't see too many hopping out there with much foot damage.

For me, booties are a must. Nothing ruins a day more, or takes longer to heal, than foot cuts. Every now and then they save a stubbed or even broken to if you're a little too hasty punching the back foot into the straps. I sails with them 100% of the time. Warmth is nice this time of year!

Having said that, I reckon booty use is at about 50:50 across all the frequent Primbee sailors. I reckon if you are going to start using really small (read difficult to gybe) boards on really big days, and chasing the right gust right into shore till you beach it on the kerbside lane of Windang Road, I'd go booties given the high amount of dismounting and trudging you're likely to to do. If you're happy to sail bigger boards that you can reliably gybe (or have superhuman abilities to gybe speed boards like MT), staying out a bit deeper, you could probably get away without.

Woah! 35 knots is good, your foot, not so much.

I hate booties and end up using Band-Aid Advanced Healing Hydro Seal Gel Plasters Large 6 Pack . I probably need to man up and get used to booties. :(

Jason would be great if you could show a gps mark of where it happened so we can try and avoid the area !

Congratulation on the great speed on first try !

Nice speed for a first effort!

I resisted booties for a long time but I finally succumbed and started sailing in them, just got sick and tired of being nipped by Fangy's army of trained crabs. Too many nippy and spikey things lurking around in shallow water for bare feet. Plus the last time I got a decent cut while sailing was on my foot from the trailing edge of my own fin while water starting.

Get some booties with a tough sole, not just plain neoprene which won't stop anything. I got the Rip Curl 3mm Flashbombs and they have been really good

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powersloshin said..
Jason would be great if you could show a gps mark of where it happened so we can try and avoid the area !

Congratulation on the great speed on first try !

thanks powersloshin.
the pic below shows approx location where I was cut. (Alas to the North versus South).Now to recover and have another crack

No booties for me either the last few winters at primbee and no cut feet, but I did see two bad cuts on others last winter, after seeing your pics on Friday night Jase, I wore booties on Saturday. Hope the foot heals quickly and you can get back out for the next one

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Dezza said..
No booties for me either the last few winters at primbee and no cut feet, but I did see two bad cuts on others last winter, after seeing your pics on Friday night Jase, I wore booties on Saturday. Hope the foot heals quickly and you can get back out for the next one

Dezza has proven she can whip up an awesome duct tape bandage for any unfortunate foot cuts. She's known as the queen of gaffa tape around Primbee ways...

Eckas my first aid kit/duct tape supply is stocked up ready for the 2020 season but any future tape victims must have the corona app downloaded

it'll be steel capped boots for me after seeing how close to the launching area !

So guys my next bit of advice I need, is how do you guys get to bare away on a 60 degree broad reach for the fastest speeds at Primbee? It all seemed a bit shallow and suicidal to me when there was a straight Westerly on Friday.I assume Primbee is best in a SW or NW?cheers