I went out yesterday and used my large gear ( 125 board + 7.2m ) for the first time in a month or more.It was also the first time I'd used the 7.2m in chop and at the top of my wind range.It felt horrible.
I was pulling on my front arm a lot and my front foot wanted to come out of the strap. The board felt too big for the chop .The sailwas well behaved but I wouldn't have wanted any more wind.
I had to curl my front foot toes up really hard to keep it in the strap. A lot of the time I was working upwind or closereaching so my rear foot was out of the strap and in front /touching the back footstrap.I was really pushing hard on the fin.
Wind range was gusty 12kts -15kts in the bigger chop and up to 18kts + in smaller chop behind sand islands.
One of the good local sailors who was behind me said I needed more downhaul as it wasn't twisting off.We put more on and it was much better on port tack but still felt crappy on starboard.
I set the lines up using the guy cribb sheet which usually works .I moved them further forward when I was out there and that helped a little but still not great..
I've been using my 95 ltre board a lot lately and it feels a good size for me.On the big board I don't feel comfortable using front & rear straps going upwind which is scary when I am really powered up in chop and with only the front foot in.
When I beared off a bit everything felt a bit better but I don't often bear off..Apparently I was flying but I want to be comfortable!
Any ideas what could have been wrong ( othet than I'm a crappy sailor..
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Ps - it was the first time I'd sailed that setup with a normal fin .I had been using a 38cm weedfin. I used a 44cm usual one yesterday which I usually use on my 6.6m without problems.
Personal qtn sboardcrazy... what weight are you ?
I had similar issues with my 118 / 7.4 until the wise ones worded me up on a few things.
Sorry c 64kgs.. I hadnt mentioned my weight as I always do and thought I'd bore people.
.
So what was suggested?
More down-haul, you are a fly weight, so it is a large sail to work, but its moreeeeee. I know you did do this as you said, but if centre of effort was pulling on front arm still, and you are using the Guy Cribb set up. Its more downhaul, which may only needed another 5-10mm.
You will be surprised on how much a tad more impacts the feel. My skills session at Christmas with him, showed that from a crap handling sail to a great handling sail, even for a bumble footed boof like me, is only a 5-10mm change makes all the difference
Oh forgot to add, Bum out, head in legs slightly bent, and change the boom height and try. Dont settle for its OK make the boom a little higher lower to keep the weight on your harness.
Sue - when I put the extra downhaul on I made the comment that it would be a good light wind setting.
Reflecting on what Mineral said it wasnt enough - I had set it for myself - 20kg heavier than you
and Sue......Get a longer downhaul rope
.+ cut it and burn the end...Thanks for the help. I think I probably would have been better with the 6.6m over behind the islands..Would that help the front foot problem?
Yep I felt like I was having trouble pulling the sail in too & getting my weight in the bum / seat ( which is surpising as it's probably the heaviest part of my body..)
I naturally then found my sailing position on upwind easier (ie more of both legs bent parallel to the board with body forward, rather than downwind bent rear leg sort of thing).
I naturally then found my sailing position on upwind easier (ie more of both legs bent parallel to the board with body forward, rather than downwind bent rear leg sort of thing).
Something I can still uphaul if the wind dies but not so scary in chop.
Sounds to me like you might have been over-finned. It's remarkable what difference to the feeling and handling of both the rig and board a fin that is too big or small can make.
I was sailing last summer on my 135 Patrik Slalom with a 9.6 and 50cm Canefire. The breeze picked up and it felt horrible, backhand heavy, over-powered and the board wanted to round up into the wind constantly.
I put in smaller fin (46 Sting) as I didn't have time for a sail change and it completely transformed the set-up. I no longer felt over-powered and the board was more controllable in the chop.
Next time try a smaller fin. The beauty is that fin changes are quicker and easier than sail changes and can make a big difference to your performance.
Curling toes up on front foot is often due to being over-finned. The board is trying to rail up and the heel pressure you can exert is not enough to counter the railing up ...... so you naturally increase rear foot pressure (which means front foot wants to come out) and/or you curl the toes up. If your shin muscle (front leg) is sore after a 5min reach then you are likely over-finned.
This is exacerbated a little by being under downhauled as the sail is generating more sideways force (rather than forward drive) so the fin is making more lift, contributing to the railing up.
If more downhaul made one tack feel better than the other - it is harness line position. They can be the same on each side of the boom but on one run maybe you are sailing slightly more upwind and the other more downwind, which can sometimes mean a slight moving of the lines is in order. If you get that feeling, just sail the comfy tack (planing) with front hand off, then back hand off, see how the sail wants to move back or forward or not at all, then move the lines on the other side to try and duplicate that feeling. Often to get the same comfy feeling, it is an inch or so different.
EDIT: Pointman beat me to it I need to type faster
Thanks. I might try the 38cm one next time. I didn't realise the wind was as strong as it was over the other side..
After sailing at canton where if anything goes wrong you can walk in or wash ashore it was interesting at Coal Pt. The runs are really long and it can be a problem if you get over the otherside and either the wind picks up or dies..if you break gear its a phone call for backup from the other side of the lake..
Regardless of any other issues, sailing with the back foot out in 15kts+ on a 7.2 and 125L board in chop sounds straight up sketchy to me. I don't really understand why you were in this position? Sometimes on wave gear, under powered and under boarded it's useful to take the rear foot out in order to pinch upwind but it's rare and certainly something you shouldn't be doing on the gear you have described.
I'd also suggest that the Cribb sheets are merely a guide and personally can't see how they could work accurately given the sheer range of sail shapes/designs around; IE you're going to have to tweak the harness line positions. And as other have echoed sounds like more downhaul is the go.
Finally, sailing outside your comfort zone is the only real way you'll progress. By this I mean that learning to sail when things aren't 'optimal' is a great way of learning ways to cope with all sorts of scenarios. Case in point; on my freestyle board I run a 16cm fin, I use this with a 5.9 in 12kts up to a 4.2 in 50kts and everything in between. Now partly this is because what I use the board for (freestyle obviously) but learning to sail that board with that fin in such a wide variety of wind/sail combos is incredibly helpful for general board handling skills.
Embrace the outside of your comfort zone, hence develop skills to sail around it, you'll become a better sailor because of it...imo.
That board, sail & wind range is easily within your skill level. I am a little heaver and I was out on my new board 122l(75 cm wide) 9m sail, 40cm fin for the first time on Sunday, which felt terrible the first time, and I am sure your probably a better sailor. After sailing formula I have learnt the importance of proper trim when using big sails, and the need to be methodical in finding those settings.
I think mineral is on the money, more down haul, make a note of the setting you were using, try one cm more, and then another. Until the sail feels light and stable at speed (and then use that as your light wind setting and don't be tempted to try less), then use another 1cm for when its honking.
Perhaps stick with the 38cm fin, I think that's enough for the 7.2M sail, on that size board. Then you have only just got to worry about the correct out haul and stance...
My 2 cents
In a recent uk mag peter hart wrote a really good story on the Merritt's of not sailing boards bigger than needed, if you read it you will find your answers! From the article and
IMO too big a board. I can make a 109 ltr with a 7m fly in 12 -15kts knots and weigh 85kg so given your stats, your sailing a tank!
now I have realised it can be comfortable I want to feel like that more often! I have been running it higher than usual with longer lines .
I am going to sound like a grumpy old bastard but.....
Sue - you need more downhaul
Sue - you need more downhaul
Sue - you need more downhaul
Sue - you need more downhaul
Sue - you need more downhaul
Sue - you need more downhaul
Sue - you need more downhaul
Sue - you need more downhaul
When you work on one thing at a time you will find solutions.............get the rig feeling light and then you can concentrate on other aspects clearly
As i previously posted - when I cranked more on (60mm people - no wonder it was pulling on your front hand) it was a light wind setting for me at 85 kgs - thanks Mineral for reminding me of the weight difference - we could have given it more to get a good setting for you in those conditions.
I was sailing a 10m / 125l /56 fin combo in the same conditions - I dont want to post to have a debate - but rigged right that board sail fin was a reasonable combo for the 10-15knots flat water that we had.
Ideally you come in crank another 10mm downhaul on test / crank / test / crank / feel happy about a setting / change fins / test yada yada yada.
Its a subjective process. No amount of posting on Seabreeze will rig it correctly.
But a good starting point for you is MORE DOWNHAUL and work on one thing at a time
Always happy to help you downhaul on the beach - just get some longer rope
I've got a longer downhaul but its only an extra few inches so I'll have to order some more..
I have been running it higher than usual with longer lines .
Someone told me that because it was such a big sail the centre of effort would be about halfway up the cutout and that's why I was having problems pulling it on when I had the boom pulling from a lower position..
It's a sailworks sail and he used to be sponsored by them so you'd think he'd know what he was talking about..?
Sue put the boom where it is comfortable to you - NOT where someone tells you.
Using that logic you would follow Antione and Bjorn's sail settings
Sue a bunch of us at Marmong just got a big roll of Formuline downhaul rope. Between us we will find a 2.2m length that should work fine. Will PM you.
Last saturday I (90kg) used my 97 litre board with my 7.5 and a 38cm fin. So don't be scared to use your 95 litre board more often - at least with the 6.6 you have.
Welcome back to Coal Point! Don't worry, you will remember how to gybe in chop. Canton is nice and flat but all of us find it a bit tricky when we get back into choppy lake macquarie.
Harden up Farley
We are talking 10-15 knots, no boat chop, flat water on Wednesday.....formula heaven ...where were you?
(Like a junkie on the payphone outside Woolworths) ah come on mate sell me some of that stuff...(sniff) cmon mate you know I am good for it...its good stuff I just want a coupla metres of that good stuff cmon
Heaven help when we hit the big chop with boat wakes crisscrossing when the yacht races go past...
Felt better than the 6.6m..
Great Sue - was looking at the trees all afternoon - looked like it was similiar conditions to last week
Yep a bit less.One of the guys who was flying last time was slogging a lot with the same setup he had on the day last week.
Not much fun watching the trees when you can't get out..
