Hi All,

New to the forum and i have a dilemma that i think the forum may be able to help with.

What I'm looking for is one board that I can take into any UK wave (mostly onshore to cross on and some side shore) and ride with ease, but also take into bump n jump and have enough speed and straight line stability to still be fun. It doesn't need to be the fastest board but still fun in bump n jump. My sail range is 4.0-5.6 and normally I get most use out of my 5.0. I know the easy answer is go for something like the freewave but I have found that in the wave they just don't turn as well as a more wave oriented board.

I weight around 78kg

thanks in advance

Starboard Air or Kode freewave 86

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tubbydug said..
Hi All,

New to the forum and i have a dilemma that i think the forum may be able to help with.

What I'm looking for is one board that I can take into any UK wave (mostly onshore to cross on and some side shore) and ride with ease, but also take into bump n jump and have enough speed and straight line stability to still be fun. It doesn't need to be the fastest board but still fun in bump n jump. My sail range is 4.0-5.6 and normally I get most use out of my 5.0. I know the easy answer is go for something like the freewave but I have found that in the wave they just don't turn as well as a more wave oriented board.

I weight around 78kg

thanks in advance

Fanatic FW STB 85.

It depends , send us a pic of your lawn

Most of the wave boards that can be set up as a quad or a thruster should work you main compromise will probably be to go a size larger so that you can carry a 5.6 so probably one of the 86 litre wave boards (the kode wave is fast) but do some research. This is still a good all round size for you weight. (in Australia a 78 kilo guy calling himself Tubbydug would be ironic)

Though this is a country where the "little people" are represented by Clive Palmer.

JP Freestyle wave should be in the mix. Pro edition is single or thruster setup.

There's also the 82 Fanatic stubby or the severne nano / dyno - these things out perform the trad shapes in less than perfect wave sailing conditions, plane earlier & morestable for floating - plug ugly but once you ride one it's hard to go back

Remember that the UK waves are not clean peeling waves like we have here and most people use freestyle waves with a thruster option.
Also remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.
My mate over there is your size and his biggest sail is a 5.3m

Depending on your ability and budget I'd go for something like a JP thruster 92.

Theres also a really good windsurfing car boot sale every month in hailing island and a lot of gear there is cheap as theres more people sailing than over here too.

Starboard kode wave, jp FSW, fanatic triwave, Tabou pocket (front foot ok?).

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Madge said..
remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.

What is "denser" wind?

^^^
Its not educated

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musorianin said..

Madge said..
remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.

What is "denser" wind?

Cold moist air is more solid.

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musorianin said..

Madge said..
remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.

What is "denser" wind?

Its hard to measure but defiantly the cold damp air round the UK and Ireland where I grew up sailing and windsurfing is denser. 20 Knots on the west coast of Ireland in winter will have you on a 4.2m or less and fully powered up. I find sailing in Sydney is way less powered up for the equivalent wind strength.

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musorianin said..

Madge said..
remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.

What is "denser" wind?

Wind that occurs at a lower altitude . 10,000 MSL (mean seal level ) VS Florida as example 0 MSL.

Looking forward to lawn photo

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russh said..
There's also the 82 Fanatic stubby or the severne nano / dyno - these things out perform the trad shapes in less than perfect wave sailing conditions, plane earlier & morestable for floating - plug ugly but once you ride one it's hard to go back

The 82 Stubby is a great board but I don't think it will take a 5.6 very well? The FW STB 85 has a flatter rocker & I think would hold a bit more sail...

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peterowensbabs said..

musorianin said..

Madge said..
remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.

What is "denser" wind?

Its hard to measure but defiantly the cold damp air round the UK and Ireland where I grew up sailing and windsurfing is denser. 20 Knots on the west coast of Ireland in winter will have you on a 4.2m or less and fully powered up. I find sailing in Sydney is way less powered up for the equivalent wind strength.

This never made any sense to me(i may just be dense myself.....)

I agree that denser air would have more force for a given wind speed.

But think of this: How are we measuring windspeed? Are we actually measuring how fast the air molecules are traveling? Or are we actually measuring the mechanical force the wind exerts on an impeller or similar mechanical device? If so could it really be true that a 20knot wind in cool damp Ireland has more force than a 20knot wind measured in the desert? ... NO! ...Not if that wind was measured using the same mechanical means.

Am I just dense myself?

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gorgesailor said..

russh said..
There's also the 82 Fanatic stubby or the severne nano / dyno - these things out perform the trad shapes in less than perfect wave sailing conditions, plane earlier & morestable for floating - plug ugly but once you ride one it's hard to go back

The 82 Stubby is a great board but I don't think it will take a 5.6 very well? The FW STB 85 has a flatter rocker & I think would hold a bit more sail...

The 85 FW STB has excellent big sail carrying capability because of its wide footprint! It's quite long for a stubby.
Not the case for the wave stubby and I think you're right about 5.6 being too big on 82.

Cheers for the comments

Tubby Doug is a running joke as I once fell out of a small boat nicknamed the tub.

With denser air, this is true. 20knots in Greece (where I am currently working) has less power than 20knots in the UK winter.

Imagine a ride with 1 or 2 cars travelling at 60mph. Not very dense bit still 60mph. Now a busy motorway with hundreds of cars going at 60mph. Still the same speed but more dense.

Cold damp air is the same, more molecules in the same volume of space gives a wind with the same speed more power.

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musorianin said..

Madge said..
remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.

What is "denser" wind?

When its 20 knots in Oz and you have a 5.3m sail and are planning but in the uk where its a more condensed low pressure you'll be on a 4.7m instead. Not necesarily dancer just more pressure in the air and therefore more force for the same speed of wind.....its an actual thing and I haven't made it up......I think.....

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tubbydug said..
......
Cold damp air is the same, more molecules in the same volume of space gives a wind with the same speed more power.

Your not getting it mate... How do you know they are the same speed? How do you measure that speed? When you use a wind meter you are really measuring the power/force of that wind - it's effect on the impeller. Not it's actual speed. How is the force of the wind acting on an impeller any different than the force acting on your sail? ... I mean I could be wrong but I have not heard any good explanation why.

^^^^
Im with you . Measured pressure is measured pressure .
Cold wind however feels stronger on the senses . How can you tell the difference in half a meter sail size to choose when checking gusting wind strength on the beach ? There are so many variables . Local knowledge of how the wind is in your sailing zone compared to the beach is probably more accurate and different to what the windomometer says .

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Manuel7 said..

gorgesailor said..

russh said..
There's also the 82 Fanatic stubby or the severne nano / dyno - these things out perform the trad shapes in less than perfect wave sailing conditions, plane earlier & morestable for floating - plug ugly but once you ride one it's hard to go back

The 82 Stubby is a great board but I don't think it will take a 5.6 very well? The FW STB 85 has a flatter rocker & I think would hold a bit more sail...

The 85 FW STB has excellent big sail carrying capability because of its wide footprint! It's quite long for a stubby.
Not the case for the wave stubby and I think you're right about 5.6 being too big on 82.

I bought a cheap 2016 88 stub - already have 2016 83 kode wave and 93 kode wave and 2018 105 stub freewave - the 88 has become the board of choice from 16-30knts - usually one sail size smaller than trad board - and wave ability matches them all - best upwind ability of the lot and good float - im 86kg - at 78?kg a 5.6 is possible on 82 particularly if a light pro wave style sail - either way a one board solution will be a compromise in one area or another- light or high wind -best to have a board with volume & rocker that covers >60%of your wave conditions - for wave sailing (cross off) was taught by those in the know - think sail size for the gusts board size for the lulls

PS - still ride all of the boards but 88 is fav / go too

This is almost a local Tim Williams who also loves his stubby

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gorgesailor said..

tubbydug said..
......
Cold damp air is the same, more molecules in the same volume of space gives a wind with the same speed more power.

Your not getting it mate... How do you know they are the same speed? How do you measure that speed? When you use a wind meter you are really measuring the power/force of that wind - it's effect on the impeller. Not it's actual speed. How is the force of the wind acting on an impeller any different than the force acting on your sail? ... I mean I could be wrong but I have not heard any good explanation why.

I also had a puzzling experience in Maui... I was using a 5.4 sqm sail instead of a 6.5sqm that I would normally use for the same nominal wind speed in Melbourne

There is a fair margin of error in saying same wind speed as I did not measure the wind myself with the same anomemeter and simply assuming they were measured the same way both in Melbourne and Maui. However I have heard similar comments from many fellow sailors.

More scientificly speaking, the formula to calculate wind power of a wind turbine that works pretty similar to a sail has a variable for air density in addition to the wind speed:

P=1/2 x the density of air x the area swept out by the turbines x (the windspeed)^3

And observations of air density over a couple of years in a wind farm showed 20% variation... see www.technologyreview.com/s/423317/the-missing-link-between-air-density-and-wind-power-production/ for details... This is obviously significant.

I see your point about the way an anomemeter with turning cups (the most common type) measures the wind speed but I think it behaves differently to a sail... A low density but fast flow of air especially if it is also going up and down every few seconds would spin the cups like crazy over the 10 minutes the wind is measured as average but put less power on the sail. A relatively slower, dense and relentless air flow like in Maui would feel like a grunty turbo diesel on your sail but wouldn't generate as many spins on the anomemeter.

This is obviously an oversimplification considering so many other factors... That's why sometimes science is a little limited for real world applications and 1st hand feel and experience makes a much bigger difference to your performance than studying formulas :)

HI BHC
Not just the wind. The water salinity has an effect as well. Ie if you are in fresh water or salt.

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TerryA said..
HI BHC
Not just the wind. The water salinity has an effect as well. Ie if you are in fresh water or salt.

What has that got to do with wind ?

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Imax1 said..

TerryA said..
HI BHC
Not just the wind. The water salinity has an effect as well. Ie if you are in fresh water or salt.

What has that got to do with wind ?

Dunno,

I[m still stuck on the difference between air "pressure" and "density" -- it might just be me (density, that is). The one thing it can't be a factor of is altitude, at least for most of us who sail at sea level...

^^^^
I believe no matter what kind of wind , hot , cold , wet , dry , salt infused , sand infused , altitude , smell and religion , it would have the same effect on a windomometer as a sail. The variances would have to be in the measuring and feel. As in temp on skin .

Also remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.
My mate over there is your size and his biggest sail is a 5.3m
More scientificly speaking, the formula to calculate wind power of a wind turbine that works pretty similar to a sail has a variable for air density in addition to the wind speed

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gorgesailor said..

peterowensbabs said..

musorianin said..

Madge said..
remember that its windier there than most of Oz and its a denser wind too.

What is "denser" wind?

Its hard to measure but defiantly the cold damp air round the UK and Ireland where I grew up sailing and windsurfing is denser. 20 Knots on the west coast of Ireland in winter will have you on a 4.2m or less and fully powered up. I find sailing in Sydney is way less powered up for the equivalent wind strength.

This never made any sense to me(i may just be dense myself.....)

I agree that denser air would have more force for a given wind speed.

But think of this: How are we measuring windspeed? Are we actually measuring how fast the air molecules are traveling? Or are we actually measuring the mechanical force the wind exerts on an impeller or similar mechanical device? If so could it really be true that a 20knot wind in cool damp Ireland has more force than a 20knot wind measured in the desert? ... NO! ...Not if that wind was measured using the same mechanical means.

Am I just dense myself?

Yea can't answer that, maybe the pressure genarated as opposed to the velocity????

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bhc said..

gorgesailor said..

tubbydug said..
......
Cold damp air is the same, more molecules in the same volume of space gives a wind with the same speed more power.

Your not getting it mate... How do you know they are the same speed? How do you measure that speed? When you use a wind meter you are really measuring the power/force of that wind - it's effect on the impeller. Not it's actual speed. How is the force of the wind acting on an impeller any different than the force acting on your sail? ... I mean I could be wrong but I have not heard any good explanation why.

...

More scientificly speaking, the formula to calculate wind power of a wind turbine that works pretty similar to a sail has a variable for air density in addition to the wind speed:

P=1/2 x the density of air x the area swept out by the turbines x (the windspeed)^3

And observations of air density over a couple of years in a wind farm showed 20% variation... see www.technologyreview.com/s/423317/the-missing-link-between-air-density-and-wind-power-production/ for details... This is obviously significant.

I see your point about the way an anomemeter with turning cups (the most common type) measures the wind speed but I think it behaves differently to a sail... A low density but fast flow of air especially if it is also going up and down every few seconds would spin the cups like crazy over the 10 minutes the wind is measured as average but put less power on the sail. A relatively slower, dense and relentless air flow like in Maui would feel like a grunty turbo diesel on your sail but wouldn't generate as many spins on the anomemeter.

This is obviously an oversimplification considering so many other factors... That's why sometimes science is a little limited for real world applications and 1st hand feel and experience makes a much bigger difference to your performance than studying formulas :)

I can absolutely see why air density would affect the power output of the wind turbine. In fact I think it almost proves my point. Therefore, I don't think the above(in bold) is true. As far as I know wind speed is almost always measured locally using some sort mechanical device, either vertical axis like on most weather stations or horizontal axis like many handheld models - both are a form of wind turbine are they not? I can't see how these would react to air density any different than a sail.