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board build question

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Created by claw > 9 months ago, 22 May 2012
claw
SA, 59 posts
22 May 2012 5:54PM
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Hi, could anybody tell me what density polystyrene is best for sailboard building.

Te Hau
495 posts
22 May 2012 6:31PM
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16 kg/m3 works well, strength wise.
Its the lightest available for me (NZ)
A squared blank for a 70 lit board weighs 1010gr.
Would be nice to get rid of some of that dead weight.
I hear 11kg is available in Aus.

decrepit
WA, 12802 posts
22 May 2012 8:28PM
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13kg is available here, (Perth). In other words the lightest you can get hold of.

As long as you make the sandwich in the impact areas stiff enough to stop too much flexing fatiguing the foam.

claw
SA, 59 posts
23 May 2012 5:07PM
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Ok lightest it is! Was worried about fatigue as all my boards seem to go soft in front of back footstrap. Am going to router/inlay divinacell around straps and mast foot, am going to be bagging the laminate and was going to use double bias you guys know what weight and how many layers for deck and bottom was thinking 2 x 1 and patched accordingly. Thanks!

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
23 May 2012 6:38PM
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claw said...

Hi, could anybody tell me what density polystyrene is best for sailboard building.


what sort of board do you have in mind

claw
SA, 59 posts
23 May 2012 6:46PM
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Flatwater, slalom style for moreton bay. Am going to pre shape using aku shaper.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
23 May 2012 7:38PM
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mmmmmmmmm thats intersesting , they have closed there youtube account , did you buy there machine

Te Hau
495 posts
23 May 2012 5:46PM
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claw said...

Ok lightest it is! Was worried about fatigue as all my boards seem to go soft in front of back footstrap. Am going to router/inlay divinacell around straps and mast foot, am going to be bagging the laminate and was going to use double bias you guys know what weight and how many layers for deck and bottom was thinking 2 x 1 and patched accordingly. Thanks!


If you use decent PVC (not divinicell) you'll get much better results. Seems to me that modern PVCs are so much stronger, you can get away with less outer laminate.
Herex H100 5mm hull with Airex R63.80 3mm deck is a good combo but fairly expensive.Have made some using H80 density 5mm hull and its good also.
Lately I'm using Corecell 5mm hull and 3mm deck and use R63.80 3mm just on the nose and tail where its better flexibility is easier to work with. I use it for 300mm on the nose and tail. This set up is less expensive.
Under the hull PVC I use 1 full 4oz glass layer ( I reckon its just a blotter for the resin)
Glue mix down the centre and outer edges on the PVC.
A Tee stringer down the centre from tail to 1400 mm.
Stringer is 100mm wide 200gr carbon pushed into a 40mm deep slot made with a short jig saw blade.
Tee stringer holds the rocker line while you build and they never get negative rocker between the straps.
Throw that lot on the rocker table and vac it for 18 hrs at 40 deg and max 0.3 bar vac. (you don't lose the rocker with lowish pressure)
Shape it.
Under the deck PVC, 150x200mm patches 200gr cf under front feet
Tee stringers here also if you're jumping, 200mm long.No foot dents with these.
160mm wide 200gr cf patch across the board at the back foot straps.
60mm wide strip of 450gr cf uni down the middle of the board to 1700mm.
270x110 wide fin box cap 200gr cf.
Glue mix down the middle on the PVC and along the rails.
I use a PVC block 40mm thick,310 long x 65 wide for the mast.Fitted in the poly blank with 2 x 4oz glass laterals and same weight longitudinals under the pvc block.
Route the mast track in after the PVC is bonded on and just glue the track in before laminating the deck.
For slalom boards, 1 layer of 200gr carbon for the outer layer, hull and deck.
I'd use 125gr if I could get it.
Jump boards I use 1 x 6 oz glass/ 1 x 72gr kevlar/ 1 x 4 oz glass. Strong and cheap.
This build set up works great, no dents,no negative rocker and haven't had any de-lam troubles. Weights come out same as Carbon Arts.
Wish I could get that 13kg poly mentioned, that would get rid of 200 gr.
Weight is in the resin content.
Use a poly lined table (I use an old core door for my table) lay your fabric on the table, pour the resin on and squeegy it using a steel squeegy (gets more resin out)
Roll it onto a cardboard poster tube to transfer it to the job. Most of the resin stays on the table and the tube rather than making your board heavy.
To bond the PVC onto the blank I use 48mm PVC tape and wrap the PVC on with this, then throw it on the vac table using a 3mm packer (to match the overlap) between the table and the board. I do the whole board in tape and the packer is taped on also.
The PVC tape shrinks and pulls the PVC on nicely.
All done with max 0.3 bar and the rockerline comes out accurate.
Long winded reply,but it's a big job and good on you for giving it a go.
Feels great sailing your own stuff.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
23 May 2012 8:00PM
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^^^^

Fascinating stuff Mike. There's so much to it. Must be great fun.

One question though. How to you achieve 40 degrees in Christchurch and could the same heating technique be applied in my living room?

claw
SA, 59 posts
23 May 2012 7:51PM
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Te Hau thanks for the info. Great starting point for my first foray into a sail board build! I will keep posting my work as it progresses cause youre right, theres no other ride like riding something you crafted! Now I gotta save for the carbon!

claw
SA, 59 posts
23 May 2012 7:54PM
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keef said...

mmmmmmmmm thats intersesting , they have closed there youtube account , did you buy there machine


Nah there a dime a dozen on the goldy!!

Te Hau
495 posts
23 May 2012 7:02PM
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ikw777 said...

^^^^

Fascinating stuff Mike. There's so much to it. Must be great fun.

One question though. How to you achieve 40 degrees in Christchurch and could the same heating technique be applied in my living room?


Pretty simple. I have black Polythene sheet hanging over the rocker table with an oil column heater (you ever hear of those in Aus?) in the resulting tent. Works great and gets plenty hot. I use the thermostat to control temp.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
23 May 2012 9:23PM
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Te Hau said...

ikw777 said...

^^^^

Fascinating stuff Mike. There's so much to it. Must be great fun.

One question though. How to you achieve 40 degrees in Christchurch and could the same heating technique be applied in my living room?


Pretty simple. I have black Polythene sheet hanging over the rocker table with an oil column heater (you ever hear of those in Aus?) in the resulting tent. Works great and gets plenty hot. I use the thermostat to control temp.



LOL I think I saw a picture in a book once!

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
24 May 2012 8:42AM
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claw said...

keef said...

mmmmmmmmm thats intersesting , they have closed there youtube account , did you buy there machine


Nah there a dime a dozen on the goldy!!


how much , my daughter lives there could be worth a trip, imagine what my garage would look like with something like that

claw
SA, 59 posts
24 May 2012 3:18PM
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Select to expand quote
[
how much , my daughter lives there could be worth a trip, imagine what my garage would look like with something like that


New they seem to be about 67k, 2nd hand who knows.

The design software is free and simple to use and there are plenty of machine owners that will cut a blank for you.

claw
SA, 59 posts
24 May 2012 3:57PM
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Te Hau said...

16 kg/m3 works well, strength wise.
Its the lightest available for me (NZ)
A squared blank for a 70 lit board weighs 1010gr.
Would be nice to get rid of some of that dead weight.
I hear 11kg is available in Aus.


Just did a quick ring around and can get a 2500mmx1200mmx600mm at 14kg/m3 for $150. Company said it becomes difficult to get the foam any lighter and still have an acceptable consistancy, beads expand too much it seems. I have the 17kg/m3 at work and its pretty tough, not like chilly bin foam!!!!

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
24 May 2012 4:53PM
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Whilst not being a board builder, I am always wondering why extruded polystyrene (XPS) is not used in lieu of expanded polystyrene (EPS). I know that the lightest XPS is around 25kg/m3 so this makes say a 100litre blank around 1 kg heavier (2.5kg as opposed to 1.5kg). I'd happily have a board 1 kilo heavier that uses a much stiffer closed cell (completely waterproof) material with a compressive strength of around 150kPa in lieu of 70kPa.

The off-gasing of the XPS could easily be managed through incorporating additional core venting such as the CA gortex vents. Technically you could drill a hole through the board and not worry about water absorption.

XPS Properties here for anyone interested www.foamular.com.au/404-error

Te Hau
495 posts
24 May 2012 6:32PM
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sausage said...

Whilst not being a board builder, I am always wondering why extruded polystyrene (XPS) is not used in lieu of expanded polystyrene (EPS). I know that the lightest XPS is around 25kg/m3 so this makes say a 100litre blank around 1 kg heavier (2.5kg as opposed to 1.5kg). I'd happily have a board 1 kilo heavier that uses a much stiffer closed cell (completely waterproof) material with a compressive strength of around 150kPa in lieu of 70kPa.

The off-gasing of the XPS could easily be managed through incorporating additional core venting such as the CA gortex vents. Technically you could drill a hole through the board and not worry about water absorption.

XPS Properties here for anyone interested www.foamular.com.au/404-error


I knew a guy in Taranaki who was making his own boards with XPS.
He laminated straight onto it with no PVC. Certainly would be cheaper but not sure about the strength. I built my first one this way.Ended up being a test piece and went in the bin.
I was told by board builders that de-lam is common with XPS although I can't see why that should be.
You've got me thinking about it again. Much cheaper for experimentals. You could use thin low density PVC on the hull if strength was a problem.A stringer would help also.
I may do a little speedy with it and see how it works.

decrepit
WA, 12802 posts
24 May 2012 8:34PM
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I built a couple of wave boards with xps, (before they increased the density), and had no problems.

It's possible a couple of layers of 200gm carbon instead of a 3mm sandwich would be stiff enough.

The ones I made had 3mm sandwich.

decrepit
WA, 12802 posts
24 May 2012 8:37PM
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claw said...

>>

Just did a quick ring around and can get a 2500mmx1200mmx600mm at 14kg/m3 for $150. Company said it becomes difficult to get the foam any lighter and still have an acceptable consistancy, beads expand too much it seems. I have the 17kg/m3 at work and its pretty tough, not like chilly bin foam!!!!


That's a fantastic price you can get about 10 boards out of that block. I must be paying a lot for them to cut it to an individual blank size.

174
NSW, 190 posts
25 May 2012 11:37AM
Thumbs Up

claw said...

Te Hau said...

16 kg/m3 works well, strength wise.
Its the lightest available for me (NZ)
A squared blank for a 70 lit board weighs 1010gr.
Would be nice to get rid of some of that dead weight.
I hear 11kg is available in Aus.


Just did a quick ring around and can get a 2500mmx1200mmx600mm at 14kg/m3 for $150. Company said it becomes difficult to get the foam any lighter and still have an acceptable consistancy, beads expand too much it seems. I have the 17kg/m3 at work and its pretty tough, not like chilly bin foam!!!!


anyone know somewhere in sydney with prices like that? I was quoted about 3x



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