I'm looking for fins I can use in shallow waters on my SB iS130 (85cm) and SB US147 with big sails (8.4 & 9.6). My local beach has loads of sand bars and regular XL slalom fins are no good.

I started looking at weed fins, them came across the MU Delta XT carbon fins. I also saw this video of a 24cm on an iS107

Will the Delta XT in 27cm and 30 be ok for my boards? Iv'e never tried these fins, or weed fins and just want to get it right first time around.

Or am I better going down the weed fin route and what sizes would be best for me?

Thanks in advance:)

Hi Mark, Ive used these fins up to the deta xt 26 and delta slalom 24. They are the only thing that works on the flats at budgewoi with heavy weed and only 40cm ish depth. In these conditions with really flat water due to weed and shallow they are amazing especially bearing off. Once up to speed bearing off and with zero chop, they don't spin out and can handle a biggish sail. Ive gone up to 9.5m2. (all my experience)
However at the first sign of chop they spin out immediately. You really need to nurse them over chop, especially if trying to tight reach.
The video certainly looked choppy but he was always bearing off, and they only showed really short clips. I bet he was spinning out making ground up wind or nursing the board carefully.
Next they need to be going really fast before you feel any fin lift. On a wide board that is built wide to manage heaps of fin lift, it can feel lackluster. OK once really screaming off the wind though.
I did use one in the ocean once sailing over random coral outcrops. The ocean surge meant that occasionally it got shallow and you would strike one at speed. With the delta in I still hit them very occasionally, but they just glanced off, instead of smashing the board out from under me. However it rather spoiled the feel of the board. Was worth it though in those conditions.
In conclusion if you are familiar with the compromise of going from a pointer to a weed fin, the Delta is another compromise further of about the same magnitude again. Some have toyed with multi delta setups to try to make up for the short comings.
All that sounds very negative , but I own a quiver of these fins, because they allow me to go much faster on our weed flats than I can go anywhere else. They are wonderful for what they do, but I certainly wouldn't choose to use one if I could get away with a regular weedy or a pointer, especially on a big wide board. (all IMO others may differ)

Thanks for the reply, that's a lot of useful info. I sounds as though I might be better off looking at XL weed fins

fangy fins are another option. they are cast alloy.

Eckers was using a Delta XT 26 with 10m sail and old formula board at Lake George in flat water. I used a 26, cut down from 30 Carbon Delta with RS5 - 77 wide and 7.9 . The Fangy Fins and Tribal delta speed don't spin out like the deltas, but not sure if you can find a suitable size for the big rig. I agree if its choppy you are better off with regular weed fins, find a very stiff one boxed forward.

Tibal


Delta carbon cut to 26



Aluminium Fangy Fin

Tribal deltas go up to the same size , i just havnt had any one ask for one but can be made , i do have some 22cm getting done at the moment

HI Mark .
l have a 22 delta I use in very low tides ,it is great to own these fins as knowing you can ride over shallow without worry about
hitting ,i basically use mine for 6.0 and 7,0 .the 7,0 is the max size sail i would use with this one as I'm 97 kgs .
I also am planing on getting a 28 for my bigger 8,5 .and more choppy conditions ..
As heavy1 says, you have to go easy in chop ,just don't put the power on as hard ..but in flat water its no problem
they feel really skatey....and fly along ..
I'm only new to these short weed fins ,but glad i own one ...and looking at more ..

I say yes, get one .

At my local the arrival of these shallow fins has changed the game.

The boys are are excited when the tide goes out looking for speed on flat water

a variety of fins already mentioned in use. Standard weedies for boards your size don't go shallow enough

85 wide slalom boards are doing well on 26 kestral + weed speeds + fangy 28. From my observation the fangy handles chop the best

disclosure... waiting for a 28 fangy to arrive as the 26 kestral is too skittish in the 141 futura 80cm wide 90kg

kestral has worked great in small slalom boards with my 75kg son

cheers Jeff

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jirvin4505 said..
At my local the arrival of these shallow fins has changed the game.


85 wide slalom boards are doing well on 26 kestral + weed speeds + fangy 28. From my observation the fangy handles chop the best

85 wide and a 28 fin! A bit of ground effect going on.

Has anyone contemplated exploiting ground effect fully by using a cut down foil?

NP alloys are coming on to the market cheaply now. Cut the mast to about 45 and, with an angle grinder back on shore, clip the front wings until it will no longer fly in deep water. Take a smidge more off and head for the shallows. You might want to mark a course in the shallows with tomato stakes and walk it carefully checking for obstacles - but the potential is there to go quite fast in not much wind.

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Heavy1 said..
Hi Mark, Ive used these fins up to the deta xt 26 and delta slalom 24. They are the only thing that works on the flats at budgewoi with heavy weed and only 40cm ish depth. In these conditions with really flat water due to weed and shallow they are amazing especially bearing off. Once up to speed bearing off and with zero chop, they don't spin out and can handle a biggish sail. Ive gone up to 9.5m2. (all my experience)
However at the first sign of chop they spin out immediately. You really need to nurse them over chop, especially if trying to tight reach.
The video certainly looked choppy but he was always bearing off, and they only showed really short clips. I bet he was spinning out making ground up wind or nursing the board carefully.
Next they need to be going really fast before you feel any fin lift. On a wide board that is built wide to manage heaps of fin lift, it can feel lackluster. OK once really screaming off the wind though.
I did use one in the ocean once sailing over random coral outcrops. The ocean surge meant that occasionally it got shallow and you would strike one at speed. With the delta in I still hit them very occasionally, but they just glanced off, instead of smashing the board out from under me. However it rather spoiled the feel of the board. Was worth it though in those conditions.
In conclusion if you are familiar with the compromise of going from a pointer to a weed fin, the Delta is another compromise further of about the same magnitude again. Some have toyed with multi delta setups to try to make up for the short comings.
All that sounds very negative , but I own a quiver of these fins, because they allow me to go much faster on our weed flats than I can go anywhere else. They are wonderful for what they do, but I certainly wouldn't choose to use one if I could get away with a regular weedy or a pointer, especially on a big wide board. (all IMO others may differ)

Heavy1 summed it up pretty well. I've got a range of XT's up to 26cm which I use on my 135L(78cm wide) & 115L (66W) Rocket's with 8.6&7.0 sails. Like Heavy1 I've used them on weedy lakes and also in the tropic's, when the tide is getting low.

Do I like them? - no not really, would I sell them - no. They do what they are meant to do - get you out on the water when you would otherwise not. Compared to conventional 40-48cm fins, they are draggy (not fast), slow to accelerate and sensitive to chop and gybing (although I don't find them too bad in the chop once you tune into the fin).

And when you are pissed at them for not performing as well as you wanted, just remind your self of the time you sailed into a weed bog hole and then spent the next hour trying to get out of it, covered in weed from head to toe. Or the time you hit the reef and lost your fin, drifting onto the shallow coral, then proceeding to cut your board, sail, boom and yourself to bits as you try to walk out of it!

The best I've found in chop so far are the Fangys..Not sure how big a gear the 28cm can handle. I use a 24cm in my 111ltre board with a 7.5m and have had it out powered in 2 ft chop without any worries.

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KJ said..

Heavy1 said..
Hi Mark, Ive used these fins up to the deta xt 26 and delta slalom 24. They are the only thing that works on the flats at budgewoi with heavy weed and only 40cm ish depth. In these conditions with really flat water due to weed and shallow they are amazing especially bearing off. Once up to speed bearing off and with zero chop, they don't spin out and can handle a biggish sail. Ive gone up to 9.5m2. (all my experience)
However at the first sign of chop they spin out immediately. You really need to nurse them over chop, especially if trying to tight reach.
The video certainly looked choppy but he was always bearing off, and they only showed really short clips. I bet he was spinning out making ground up wind or nursing the board carefully.
Next they need to be going really fast before you feel any fin lift. On a wide board that is built wide to manage heaps of fin lift, it can feel lackluster. OK once really screaming off the wind though.
I did use one in the ocean once sailing over random coral outcrops. The ocean surge meant that occasionally it got shallow and you would strike one at speed. With the delta in I still hit them very occasionally, but they just glanced off, instead of smashing the board out from under me. However it rather spoiled the feel of the board. Was worth it though in those conditions.
In conclusion if you are familiar with the compromise of going from a pointer to a weed fin, the Delta is another compromise further of about the same magnitude again. Some have toyed with multi delta setups to try to make up for the short comings.
All that sounds very negative , but I own a quiver of these fins, because they allow me to go much faster on our weed flats than I can go anywhere else. They are wonderful for what they do, but I certainly wouldn't choose to use one if I could get away with a regular weedy or a pointer, especially on a big wide board. (all IMO others may differ)

Heavy1 summed it up pretty well. I've got a range of XT's up to 26cm which I use on my 135L(78cm wide) & 115L (66W) Rocket's with 8.6&7.0 sails. Like Heavy1 I've used them on weedy lakes and also in the tropic's, when the tide is getting low.

Do I like them? - no not really, would I sell them - no. They do what they are meant to do - get you out on the water when you would otherwise not. Compared to conventional 40-48cm fins, they are draggy (not fast), slow to accelerate and sensitive to chop and gybing (although I don't find them too bad in the chop once you tune into the fin).

And when you are pissed at them for not performing as well as you wanted, just remind your self of the time you sailed into a weed bog hole and then spent the next hour trying to get out of it, covered in weed from head to toe. Or the time you hit the reef and lost your fin, drifting onto the shallow coral, then proceeding to cut your board, sail, boom and yourself to bits as you try to walk out of it!

good summary KJ .so true i don't like short weed fin much either ,,,,,,but when you see a perfect 20 knot days and only 1 foot of water
you have to do it .
i sail north west oz every year ,and have only had short fins for three years now ...
and i have increased my sailing days up there by 35-40 % up there ,and some of those days have been my best days ever ,
so flat .When you have to drive 11 hours and you can't sail because its too shallow ??? you start to love that fin

one day that burns into my brain at safety bay very low tide ,when it was me ,and the rest where kites . sailing across the weed bank
they where looking at me ,to say hey you can't sail over that with a fin ?
i kicked their arse that day on a 7.0 4 cam race sail 115 tabou rocket and a 22 delta ..
I Think i really pissed them off .because they where in my way . i was frigin flying ..and able to push hard on the fin ,it ,being so flat

i will be trying the fangy fins ,later this year ..a never braking alloy fin ...
not that the deltas are weak ..they are solid .and sure have had my moneys worth out of them in 2- three years .

Brilliant, thanks for the replies. We don't really get to use weed fins in the UK, so I'm clueless when it comes to weed fins.

I sail at west kirby lake most of the time. WK doesn't work in an easterly, so we need to sail out on the estuary on high tide. There are loads of sand/mud bars, one minute it's deep, the next it's less than knee deep. The water is brown so you can't tell how deep it is. I don't fancy hit one of these at full pelt.

In an easterly, it's pretty flat but not like shallow weed spots. So I'm thinking maybe the MU Delta 30cm might be tricky. But looking at a picture of the 30cm, it looks like it has a massive surface area so I might worrying over nothing.

Because weed isn't the problem over here, I thinking maybe a weed-speed 45cm would be best. I se3 Tribal, Black project and Tectonic all do them. tribal say on their fin selector a 45cm is good for a 85/90 wide board.

Just be aware that black project weedys are measured down the leading edge not the depth like most other weedys, you will end up with a shorter fin than you had expected.
Cant go wrong with the Tribal ws or techtonics weed demon, both awesome fins as weedys go.

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Tardy said..

KJ said..

Heavy1 said..
Hi Mark, Ive used these fins up to the deta xt 26 and delta slalom 24. They are the only thing that works on the flats at budgewoi with heavy weed and only 40cm ish depth. In these conditions with really flat water due to weed and shallow they are amazing especially bearing off. Once up to speed bearing off and with zero chop, they don't spin out and can handle a biggish sail. Ive gone up to 9.5m2. (all my experience)
However at the first sign of chop they spin out immediately. You really need to nurse them over chop, especially if trying to tight reach.
The video certainly looked choppy but he was always bearing off, and they only showed really short clips. I bet he was spinning out making ground up wind or nursing the board carefully.
Next they need to be going really fast before you feel any fin lift. On a wide board that is built wide to manage heaps of fin lift, it can feel lackluster. OK once really screaming off the wind though.
I did use one in the ocean once sailing over random coral outcrops. The ocean surge meant that occasionally it got shallow and you would strike one at speed. With the delta in I still hit them very occasionally, but they just glanced off, instead of smashing the board out from under me. However it rather spoiled the feel of the board. Was worth it though in those conditions.
In conclusion if you are familiar with the compromise of going from a pointer to a weed fin, the Delta is another compromise further of about the same magnitude again. Some have toyed with multi delta setups to try to make up for the short comings.
All that sounds very negative , but I own a quiver of these fins, because they allow me to go much faster on our weed flats than I can go anywhere else. They are wonderful for what they do, but I certainly wouldn't choose to use one if I could get away with a regular weedy or a pointer, especially on a big wide board. (all IMO others may differ)

Heavy1 summed it up pretty well. I've got a range of XT's up to 26cm which I use on my 135L(78cm wide) & 115L (66W) Rocket's with 8.6&7.0 sails. Like Heavy1 I've used them on weedy lakes and also in the tropic's, when the tide is getting low.

Do I like them? - no not really, would I sell them - no. They do what they are meant to do - get you out on the water when you would otherwise not. Compared to conventional 40-48cm fins, they are draggy (not fast), slow to accelerate and sensitive to chop and gybing (although I don't find them too bad in the chop once you tune into the fin).

And when you are pissed at them for not performing as well as you wanted, just remind your self of the time you sailed into a weed bog hole and then spent the next hour trying to get out of it, covered in weed from head to toe. Or the time you hit the reef and lost your fin, drifting onto the shallow coral, then proceeding to cut your board, sail, boom and yourself to bits as you try to walk out of it!

good summary KJ .so true i don't like short weed fin much either ,,,,,,but when you see a perfect 20 knot days and only 1 foot of water
you have to do it .
i sail north west oz every year ,and have only had short fins for three years now ...
and i have increased my sailing days up there by 35-40 % up there ,and some of those days have been my best days ever ,
so flat .When you have to drive 11 hours and you can't sail because its too shallow ??? you start to love that fin

one day that burns into my brain at safety bay very low tide ,when it was me ,and the rest where kites . sailing across the weed bank
they where looking at me ,to say hey you can't sail over that with a fin ?
i kicked their arse that day on a 7.0 4 cam race sail 115 tabou rocket and a 22 delta ..
I Think i really pissed them off .because they where in my way . i was frigin flying ..and able to push hard on the fin ,it ,being so flat

i will be trying the fangy fins ,later this year ..a never braking alloy fin ...
not that the deltas are weak ..they are solid .and sure have had my moneys worth out of them in 2- three years .

I dropped my fangy 24 on the concrete one day.. I felt sorry for the concrete..

I found the Fangy Fin spun out in chop heaps less than my Delta XT.

I have sailed MUF Deltas, Delta XTs, and Tectonic Weed Demons. The original MUF Deltas are by far the hardest to sail - doable in perfectly flat water, but requiring a magician in chop. The MUF Delta XTs are a lot better; I was reasonably happy with a 24 in a 99 l board with 7.0-7.8. The Weed Demons are great fins, but you will need a longer one than in a good delta fin.
The Fangy fins are by far the best of the bunch that I have tried. Does not matter much since you probably can't get them anytime soon. Given your gear and conditions, a Tectonics Weed Demon or Tribal weedie would be a good choice.

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mark62 said..
Brilliant, thanks for the replies. We don't really get to use weed fins in the UK, so I'm clueless when it comes to weed fins.

I sail at west kirby lake most of the time. WK doesn't work in an easterly, so we need to sail out on the estuary on high tide. There are loads of sand/mud bars, one minute it's deep, the next it's less than knee deep. The water is brown so you can't tell how deep it is. I don't fancy hit one of these at full pelt.

In an easterly, it's pretty flat but not like shallow weed spots. So I'm thinking maybe the MU Delta 30cm might be tricky. But looking at a picture of the 30cm, it looks like it has a massive surface area so I might worrying over nothing.

Because weed isn't the problem over here, I thinking maybe a weed-speed 45cm would be best. I se3 Tribal, Black project and Tectonic all do them. tribal say on their fin selector a 45cm is good for a 85/90 wide board.

I've successfully used my Tribal 35 weedspeed (35cm deep x 44cm long) on my Mistral 132 (82 wide) with both 7.1 and 7.9 race sails in open bay chop. It's rock solid when powered up, however when under powered you need to be careful with back foot pressure. The fin is not big enough when using a 8.7 sail with the 132. The 45cm would be perfect, however I would not want a 45cm deep fin when sailing over sand banks of variable depth.

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boardsurfr said..
I have sailed MUF Deltas, Delta XTs, and Tectonic Weed Demons. The original MUF Deltas are by far the hardest to sail - doable in perfectly flat water, but requiring a magician in chop. The MUF Delta XTs are a lot better; I was reasonably happy with a 24 in a 99 l board with 7.0-7.8. The Weed Demons are great fins, but you will need a longer one than in a good delta fin.
The Fangy fins are by far the best of the bunch that I have tried. Does not matter much since you probably can't get them anytime soon. Given your gear and conditions, a Tectonics Weed Demon or Tribal weedie would be a good choice.

Just in reply to the above, yes the original MUF Deltas probably do spin out the worst in chop, BUT they are still my first choice in flat water really heavy weed conditions. They are the least likely to fail to shed and suddenly stop on a super heavy raft of weed. The XTs are very good but as far as shedding goes, the original is best. However I understand (not my experience because I took advice) that the slaloms are the ones to have. The speed is just too critical Ive been told. I guess the speed is ok on flat water at speed on broad reach, but thats it.

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Heavy1 said..

boardsurfr said..
I have sailed MUF Deltas, Delta XTs, and Tectonic Weed Demons. The original MUF Deltas are by far the hardest to sail - doable in perfectly flat water, but requiring a magician in chop. The MUF Delta XTs are a lot better; I was reasonably happy with a 24 in a 99 l board with 7.0-7.8. The Weed Demons are great fins, but you will need a longer one than in a good delta fin.
The Fangy fins are by far the best of the bunch that I have tried. Does not matter much since you probably can't get them anytime soon. Given your gear and conditions, a Tectonics Weed Demon or Tribal weedie would be a good choice.

Just in reply to the above, yes the original MUF Deltas probably do spin out the worst in chop, BUT they are still my first choice in flat water really heavy weed conditions. They are the least likely to fail to shed and suddenly stop on a super heavy raft of weed. The XTs are very good but as far as shedding goes, the original is best. However I understand (not my experience because I took advice) that the slaloms are the ones to have. The speed is just too critical Ive been told. I guess the speed is ok on flat water at speed on broad reach, but thats it.

I agree with you on all the points you make Lyndon. I think original MUF Deltas are the best compromise for getting upwind, flying over weed and speed. My experience with the Slalom model is that they haven't got the lift of the standard deltas up wind and they spin out much more easily if you push them. The speed has no upwind potential at all. Going too small is a mistake. For my weight (78kg) the 20 is ideal and I wouldn't go smaller than 18.

Just note the Deltas XT's etc are bloody heavy as well!

Just got my delta xt 28 and your right it is bloody heavy.
has anyone got a better way to stop weed getting under the front. I used an eaxtra strip of neoprene and it still got under.

Fixed, back to the original 1 piece of neoprene at the front and put another piece under the back of the fin to push the nose down.
2 sails on it now, both time on flatish water in very marginal wind. 8.6 OD on a 140 Fox. I've only ever sail big slalom fins so this one felt a bit odd.
So all I can say at the moment is I can sail over areas I never could before without coming to an abrupt halt as I slammed into the bottom, I think you need to be going very quick to make any ground upwind ( I wasn't and the off shore wind and out going tide made getting back to the beach a long process) and I was pleasantly surprised I could get going at all with it in the crappy light wind. Waiting now for a windy day for a proper test run.