Hey guys , I'm trying hard to get past the beginner stage and am making progress. Motovation is high
I am using a 140 lt board Bic Blast , and a 5.2 wave sail .
I am using the Mandurah eastury . I find when the wind is 20 to 25 knots I have the right set up, any lighter and I start to struggle.
I am currently in the market for gear on a bit of a budget,
I think a board of the size I have is good but don't know if there is enough difference between the blast and something like a JP funboard or Star go to warrant buying one.
But sail size I'm a bit baffeled I see guys out at 15 knots and I want to be out too
So realiy what I'm after is gear to suit probably 12 to 25 knots, one board at this stage and a few different sails to get me out
I'm 90kgs
just after a rough guide and cheers for any replies

Hi Tom, I suggest a 6.0-6.5 and a 7.5 Should cover most circumstances

Ive got this rough idea that light winds needs cam sails and about 1m2 per 10kg. So go for something about 9m. You will see 70kg guys out planning with 7m sails in 12 knots but it doesnt happen for us 90kg and 100kg blokes. They take bit of getting used to but its a skill worth mastering. Best thing i did was get a jp super light wind its 158 litres and a reflex 9.7. Im a bit over 100kg. For a beginner maybe think about a big board first, you can float around even with your 5m wave sail in light winds no problems. If you sail where its shallow enough to beach start all the time, then give the big sail a crack on your current board. Plenty of good second hand big cam race sails for sale.

G'day Tom,
I am a bit over the 90 mark and have been windsurfing for a couple of years now.
My goto rig when the wind looked dubious was a Patrik 145t free ride with a 6.5 Gator. In 15kts it gets going but with a bit more downhaul and clew hole change 25kts I can still sail it comfortably.
I then bought a 7.3m package (sail, boom and mast) off this site for lighter days again.
But with TOW and pushing your skill 20-25kts with a 7.3 on flat water can be a good day out.
It will all depend on how much gear you want to buy. It's not just the sail. Masts and booms come into play as well.

Hey there, sounds like your board is too floaty for 16 knots plus. Generally speaking when a sailor is sailing in the 15-25 range, they will want a lesser buoyant board to withstand the heavier wind and chop. Your board would work well up to 14-16 knots or so, any more, your board will become to bouncy for you. A 6.0 and 6.5 will be a great addition to your current board and will get you planing in 12-15 knots as well with the others guys out their. If you can't water start yet, I wouldn't down size your board in litters.If you want to sail in 16-25 knots of wind, you will need to get a board with less volume or litters, it will perform so much better. Me for example just bought a JP Magic Ride Pro Edition 111 litters and love the thing to death. Check my post out about the magic ride, you may get some more info about gear and sizing. Good luck!!

I'm a bit lighter than you at 75 kilos so you would need a bit larger sails than me. Just to give you a guide. I use a 114 litre board in that 12-25 wind range. Bit of a handful when the wind gets up but do-able. The 140 litre board you have now should be fine until you want something with a bit more performance. My sail range is 5, 5.9 and 7.2. For you I'd probably add half a metre to these sizes.
Good luck with the sailing.

PKenny is onto it. You need to consider the mast and boom. In addition, what does the 2nd step in your learning transition look like? Take the time to research, I found it its easier to stick with the same brand of sail (I run NP but picked it all up 2nd hand over time), I have 2 masts and 1 boom across 4 sails. Having 1 boom is not ideal and I use it to its full range but it works for me and gets me on the water. My sail range is 5.8-8.2, which covers me from 12-24kts. You board choice will depend on the water, the flatter it is, the bigger sail you can handle (subject to your fin choice). Take the time to research and keep asking questions it could save you heaps in the long run.

find it ironic when a windsurfer speaks of being a beginner and riding in winds of 20-25 knots
that's way past beginner in my book
at 90 kilos and on 140 liter older board of 74 cm width is also not sounding "beginner"
looked the board up and it seems the board is supposed to handle 6.5 to 10.5
10.5 is a bit of a stretch, but at least there is an indication that it was meant to handle larger sails too
Now OP has a 5.2 which is obviously meant for bigger winds - especially @ 90 kilos
to make the first jump without leaping in bounds, perhaps start with a 7.5 ?? s/b good in 15/16 knots
then as others suggested if you are ready to go bigger, then try 9.x m? sail
realizing sail size changes sometimes require mast/boom and fin additions
KEEP up the GOOD WORK !!

Perfect guys exactly what I was after.
As suggested I will try to stick to one brand,
but which brand is best suited to choppy waters and a bit of a thrashing from a learner

Mabee try NP because there is a lot of it around ( second hand ) and masts to match. Its probably the easiest to get your quiver in one brand.

If you're going to be a bit hard on your gear then make sure you get full xply sails and an RDM mast.
Any brand will be good. Though I think NP have greater range for 1 mast. 5.5m - 7.2m on a 430 with the right extension.

Bad advice to suggest buying a 9m! A 7.5 is a great (big) jump up from a 5.2 and you could also do with a 6.2.. 7.5 could fit on same boom as a 5.2, 160-220 but would still probably need a 460 mast To go with the 430 or 400 used on the 5.2..
A 9m would be hard to rig, very heavy to use, difficult to up haul, require a specialised boom and a long mast of little use for any other sail. You would need a matching long fin to match the big sail. The fin would make beach starts difficult.

Neil pryde - from 4.5 fusion to 7.5 ryde all on the same 430 mast. The 7 and 7.5 Rydes would need extra long carbon extensions however.

Hi Tom
seem you have a 5.0 already .
next .6.0 ,7.0, 8.0 . You will need to get a bigger boom & mast for the 7.0 &8.0
but seem you live in WA .start from the bottom .6.0 next then 7.0.
and a 100-110 litre board for the 25 knot days .

alt...if you only wanted to buy one sail ...a good 6.5 .and learn how to belly it and down haul it to the max.

i use to live in WA and had limited funds ..and only had 2 sails and 1 board and sailed most days

105 litre mistral screamer .5.5 and a 6.5 .

I have a few more now .

How do sails with cams and without compare with each other?
Say, would a 7m ncx be equivalent to a 6.5m turbo? I don't really care about top speed, only early planing.

Select to expand quote

MrCranky said..
How do sails with cams and without compare with each other?

Select to expand quote

MrCranky said..
How do sails with cams and without compare with each other?
Say, would a 7m ncx be equivalent to a 6.5m turbo? I don't really care about top speed, only early planing.

I would go the no cam.you can use RDM and SDM with the NCX .
no cam and cam ....the cam sails will have better stability in high winds and maybe lower grunt .
but if its a 6.5 cam vs 7.0 no cam ...not much difference .
The no cam slalom sails are so good now .
They are fast .so you will get top speed ..
the worms are out .

I am 93kgs and have 3 mistral boards at 137l, 112l and 95l. I have 5 sails from 5.7 to 8.7. Their respective wind ranges are as follows.
8.7: 10 to 15kts
7.9: 13 to 18kts
7.1: 16 to 22 kts
6.3: 20 to 25 kts
5.7: > 23kts
Note the overlap in wind ranges between sails. You could widen the gap between sails to reduce the overlap and the number of sails you need.

Cam slalom sails are so good too. More wind range, faster and you can use a bigger sail and have bigger gaps between sails. Don't judge it until you properly try it. There are more second hand big sails with cams. As long as you have an area to learn in where you can mostly stand, it's the way to go

great scale mr bones...

Select to expand quote

PKenny said..
G'day Tom,
I am a bit over the 90 mark and have been windsurfing for a couple of years now.
My goto rig when the wind looked dubious was a Patrik 145t free ride with a 6.5 Gator. In 15kts it gets going but with a bit more downhaul and clew hole change 25kts I can still sail it comfortably.
I then bought a 7.3m package (sail, boom and mast) off this site for lighter days again.
But with TOW and pushing your skill 20-25kts with a 7.3 on flat water can be a good day out.
It will all depend on how much gear you want to buy. It's not just the sail. Masts and booms come into play as well.

I will add that it would be good to have a smaller board for when there is plenty of consistent wind. But we are heading into winter now so your 140t will come in handy on the squally inconsistent days. It will be easy to uphaul and be able to sail home if and when the wind drops out. Which means plenty of TOW enjoying your sailing.

Select to expand quote

mrbones said..

This might be okay for waves sails, but certainly not for race sails. For example, I'm 85kg and there's no way I could get going in 22knts with a 5.2m sail. My slalom boards range from 87, 100, 115. I feel pretty comfortable using the following sails/boards in the indicated wind strength (and I'm a pretty average sailor):

18-24kts --> 8.0m --> 115ltr
22-27kts --> 7.3m --> 115ltr
25-30kts --> 6.6m --> 100ltr
27-33kts --> 6.0m --> 100ltr
30-35kts --> 5.5m --> 87ltr
35-45kts --> 5.0m --> 87ltr

This will change a bit, depending on whether the water is rough or flat, but generally this is pretty much what I use.

I'm 90 kg as well. To get going in 12 knots you are going to need a cheap second hand formula board and a 10m sail. I think 15 knots is more realistic with a 8.6m on your current board. I would look for a twin cam without a luff sleeve. Something like a Severne turbo or similar twin cam. You will need a 45cm fin to go with the 8.6m. I think your next sail should be a 7.5-7.8m twin cam and 41cm fin to go with it. Should get going in 17 to 18 knots and bit of practice (and downhaul)should be able to hold it down to 24 knots. (If it gets bit out of control change down the fin size straight away. I know that now!!) If you see a cheap second hand carbon boom around that will really help your sailing as well as when you pump the sail the energy goes into pushing the board forward instead of the bowing the aluminium in and out. Watch a bit of youtube as well to see how good sailors bear away and pump to get going.

Until I decided to buy more gear that I rarely use I was quite happy with a two sail combo ( weight was 85-90kg)

the sails were a 6.2 NP Saber ( no cam free race ) and 7.8m NP Rs slalom ( 2 cam). I did have 2 boards which both sails worked on, 90l & 111L slalom. With some good pumping technique and adjustable OH I could get on the plane in 12 knots. on the other end if the scale it was exciting with the 6.2 at 25knots.

now I use a 7m ( cammed) and 8m cammed. The 7m cammed and some extra weight allows me to hold on in the 25 range.

in the bigger sails the cams to help to give you more range. So I'd definitely consider a large cammed sail despite the extra rigging hassle. These days I'm too lazy to change down from my 8m so I just hold on even when it's gusting 20+ but it's usually that the board tops out rather than the sail.

you should be able to find plenty of good value with used sails.

So Tom whereabouts on the estuary are you sailing?
There's places without too much chop, even in 25kts.

I have a KA 7.0 race that's surplus to requirements, If you'd like to give that a try, PM me.

Select to expand quote

N1GEL said..

This might be okay for waves sails, but certainly not for race sails. For example, I'm 85kg and there's no way I could get going in 22knts with a 5.2m sail. My slalom boards range from 87, 100, 115. I feel pretty comfortable using the following sails/boards in the indicated wind strength (and I'm a pretty average sailor):

18-24kts --> 8.0m --> 115ltr
22-27kts --> 7.3m --> 115ltr
25-30kts --> 6.6m --> 100ltr
27-33kts --> 6.0m --> 100ltr
30-35kts --> 5.5m --> 87ltr
35-45kts --> 5.0m --> 87ltr

This will change a bit, depending on whether the water is rough or flat, but generally this is pretty much what I use.

For me at 72 KG take off 1m and 15-20 Litres.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

N1GEL said..

This might be okay for waves sails, but certainly not for race sails. For example, I'm 85kg and there's no way I could get going in 22knts with a 5.2m sail. My slalom boards range from 87, 100, 115. I feel pretty comfortable using the following sails/boards in the indicated wind strength (and I'm a pretty average sailor):

18-24kts --> 8.0m --> 115ltr
22-27kts --> 7.3m --> 115ltr
25-30kts --> 6.6m --> 100ltr
27-33kts --> 6.0m --> 100ltr
30-35kts --> 5.5m --> 87ltr
35-45kts --> 5.0m --> 87ltr

This will change a bit, depending on whether the water is rough or flat, but generally this is pretty much what I use.

For me at 72 KG take off 1m and 15-20 Litres.

Man, I wish I could just back down to 80. 75 would be great.

Im 95 kgs .ocean sailing most times the scale works for me ..but I have no cam sails .my 8.5 cheetah ..is a great light winder with a good range .spot on with the scale .
next sail down is a 7.6 servene 4 cam ..totally different story..needs slightly more wind than the scale .conditions size of swell can be key changer.
I still think every metre is worth having being 4,5,6,7,8,9 or 4.5, 5.5 ,6.5,7.5,8.5,9.5. you can never have too many..

Select to expand quote

mrbones said...

What's the origin of this chart? It looks like a straight linear relationship for weight to sail size within each wind strength. Which strikes me as too simple to be meaningful and indeed a few quick comparisons suggests a greater sail size difference to weight difference than I would have thought.
Is there anything to back it up?

Select to expand quote

mrbones said..

Cripes that must be consistent and dense wind.. I seem to need a much larger sail than most of you guys I weigh 65kgs and need a 7.8m in 10-15kts to think about getting going..If it was a consistent 15 kts I'd be hanging on but our wind is quite gusty and patchy so what sail size you need also depends on where you live and the quality of the wind ( and sailor skill ). My big 115ltre board does have a lot of drag compared to a slalom board..