Hi, I think I've grown out of my Starboard Rio M, ready to buy my next board. My sailing is mostly in Elwood, which means choppy waters. So I am looking for a board, that handles chop really well, and covers the widest wind range, as it is going to be my only board for a while. I've done some research, narrowed it down to two boards: Starboard Carve 121 and Tabou Rocket 125, but not sure which one to choose. Or should I get something completely different? Any advice, especially from someone who's tried both of the above boards would be appreciated.

My weight is 70-75 kilos, I have two Sailworks Retro sails: 5.5 and 6.5. I can plane in harness and footstraps, can waterstart, tack with about 50% success, my gybing still hopeless. I normally go out in 13-14 to 25 knots, but I have to say, that the Rio M in 25 knots is not fun

Carve 121 is a good board, the width will help with progression while you get your gybes sorted. You'll be looking for something smaller for your 5.5 after you progress. I've used a 5.7 on mine, is do-able. A good board in chop too. Haven't ridden a Rocket because I bought a Carve.

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Tasdoc said..
Hi, I think I've grown out of my Starboard Rio M, ready to buy my next board. My sailing is mostly in Elwood, which means choppy waters. So I am looking for a board, that handles chop really well, and covers the widest wind range, as it is going to be my only board for a while. I've done some research, narrowed it down to two boards: Starboard Carve 121 and Tabou Rocket 125, but not sure which one to choose. Or should I get something completely different? Any advice, especially from someone who's tried both of the above boards would be appreciated.

My weight is 70-75 kilos, I have two Sailworks Retro sails: 5.5 and 6.5. I can plane in harness and footstraps, can waterstart, tack with about 50% success, my gybing still hopeless. I normally go out in 13-14 to 25 knots, but I have to say, that the Rio M in 25 knots is not fun

I'm 70 kg and sail in Elwood as well.

At your weight a 120 l will be too big in 25 knots in Elwood. You will need 2 boards. If you can water start, get a 95 l fsw for over 20 knots.

I had a 125 rocket at first (first board), then replaced it with a 108 rocket wide. I would not say that one is better at handling chop than the other. I used the 125 with a 6.1 and 5.3. Last year I used the 108 with a 6.1, 5.5 and 6.7 in upto 20 knots. This year I've mainly used it with a 7.5 in up to 18 knots.

I think these wide thin freemove boards have several advantages over the old school freeride boards. They have massive sail range. The extra width means you can use them for light wind practice - I learnt to flare gybe on mine. They do require you to be more proactive to get planing - bear away more. The upside is that I found transitioning to small boards easier (my 18+ knots board is a 86 fsw).

Tldr; consider a 110 Atomiq or Rocket wide or JP magic ride.

I also think the choices are good but at the same weight as you I think you should be looking at the Carve 110 and maybe similar sized Rocket. In the stronger end of your spectrum even the 100L versions would be better for sure, but the Carve 110 is usable there, and easier in the lighter end where I guess more sailing is done.

Thanks for responding guys. I actually was thinking, that I probably need something smaller for my weight, but it looks like 121 l is the smallest Carve that Starboard makes at the moment. Also, the 115L Rocket is only 66cm wide, which, I guess, will need stronger winds for planing.
Should I consider a 110L Rocket Wide or a 114L Atomiq instead?

I sail in Elwood too.. I am 83-85 kg. My first board was a Go 161that I used for 6 months or so.. switching to a carve 121 was a non event. I now have 2 boards and 5 sails that covers pretty much all conditions in Elwood for me:

1- carve 121 that I use with my 7.0 and 6.0..I can easily uphaul on this board when it is northerly, gusty and there is a risk of wind dying...it is a bit handful around 20kn in the chop but can still keep it on the water

2- f2 rebel 91 that's a wave/fsw that I use with 6.0 rarely and mostly with 5.6, 5.0 and 4.5... Also tried it with a 4.1 when it was 30kn+ and it was good.

I cover the above sails with two masts (rdm 430&400) and 1 carbon boom.

So for your weight I would recommend a freeride board around 110 l that you can keep as your light wind board and a 85 l FSW when you feel ready.

I had a week on a JP magic ride 104 and it was good (but I am equally happy with my carve 121). I haven't tried other thin/wide boards e.g SB Atom, Tabou Rocket wide but I think you should try them as everyone who has are raving about them. You can go 10l lower with them compared to traditional freeride boards but I'd rather have the piece of mind with a board that I can uphaul comfortably.

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Tasdoc said..
Hi, I think I've grown out of my Starboard Rio M, ready to buy my next board. My sailing is mostly in Elwood, which means choppy waters. So I am looking for a board, that handles chop really well, and covers the widest wind range, as it is going to be my only board for a while. I've done some research, narrowed it down to two boards: Starboard Carve 121 and Tabou Rocket 125, but not sure which one to choose. Or should I get something completely different? Any advice, especially from someone who's tried both of the above boards would be appreciated.

My weight is 70-75 kilos, I have two Sailworks Retro sails: 5.5 and 6.5. I can plane in harness and footstraps, can waterstart, tack with about 50% success, my gybing still hopeless. I normally go out in 13-14 to 25 knots, but I have to say, that the Rio M in 25 knots is not fun

Dear Tasdoc,
If you want progress in windsuring you must drop your board's volume. 120 lt and 125 lt is too large volume for you. In my opinion 103 lt to 110 lt volume is suitable for you. Sails are fine. It is not easy to gybe in choppy water. It is a matter of time. Don't drop your speed while gybing. Foot position is very important for gybing. First, learn speed gybe and power gybe later you can learn duck gybe and lay down. My weight is 70 kilos and I have two boards F2 103 lt, Fanatic Falcon 110lt slalom. And also your ability is very important for windsurfing. [b]Bye,

Melih.[/b]

well if you want smaller and handle chop, why not a Severne Fox?
Its what they made them for.......


I also why all the recommending wide models? When well powered and in chop most people want to go back to the normal widths (not old school skinny, but sure as hell not 80cm wide......)
All the Rocket fans liked them as they were fast and comfy. Nobody who had the normal one preferred the wide one when it came out....

Wot mark said...in real chop a wide board is bad news.
Unfortunately one board won't do everything unless you are willing to make serious compromises. Two boards- one to take big sails and early plane and still be able to uphaull when the wind does its usual trick - disappears- and a high wind board that will be controllable in the the worst chop. The only boards the do both are usually long skinny ones and don't do either very well- hence the compromise.

Have you researched the Naish Starship? That board has a huge wind range and condition range. The advantage with starship is that it's narrower than the other boards that you were looking at. Narrow will handle chop much better than a wider board. But a narrow board will offer less room to manoeuvre around on. I have the 115L Starship and I love it. It's my only board I have and use by choice and it does the job. The board will plain in 11 knots of wind for me with a 6.8 sail and using a 38 cm fin as I weigh 85kg and I use the board with smaller fins and sails up to 25 knots of wind. The board also has a huge sail range from 4.5-7.5.

nice board Magic !
now i only need to lose 20 kilos

for the OP Tasdoc:
i imagine you are going to keep your SB RIO M ??
and now you are looking for a board in the bigger winds ....
as mentioned above, a smaller sail AND board may be the ticket
you are going from a 192 litre board, 81 cm wide and 290 cm long
to go from this to 110 litre, narrow and short board is a BIG jump
the Naish Starship is surprisingly 245 cm long, but ONLY 65.6 cm wide
are you ready for the challenge or go for 70 cm wide board first ??
as you can see - more discussion these days on width over volume
if you keep the RIO and get a 7.5, you can plane with a nun's fart

Forgot to mention this. When the wind is too weak to waterstart, I can uphaul a 7.5 m sail on my rocket 108 without issue.

I have only tried a rocket wide 108 and Fanatic Gecko boards of about the same volume in a rental centre. The geckos felt really dull. But they were the "strong, heavy construction" kind, underfinned, footstraps set inboard. So that was probably the reason.

If you're still catapulting, I would get whatever you can get a good deal on. Unlike your Rio, their noses can't take too much punishment. So why spend 3k on a board you will most likely smash?

Long term it could be a good board to keep for good as a light wind board with a big sail and fin, so it would be good to have very outboard footstrap options. Now that I'm mainly using my Rocket with a big sail, I wish I could put the straps even further out (AFAIK, they rectified this in the following models)

Short term you'd want to have inboard footstrap options. A single back strap option is good, but not necessary.

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Mark _australia said..
I also why all the recommending wide models? When well powered and in chop most people want to go back to the normal widths (not old school skinny, but sure as hell not 80cm wide......)

I agree with Mark, my skill level is close to the OP and I find that these wide boards becomes very uncontrollable when the wind gets under them in high winds and choppy waters.

I can't believe you blokes are recommending a skinny, low volume board to someone who can't gybe and only makes 50% of his tacks. As a fellow intermediate level sailor Tasdoc, I would recommend a wider freeride or slalom board, of an appropriate volume, to replace the Rio that will allow you to master tacking 100% of the time and then start to get you gybing. After you are mastering tacks and pulling off more gybes then buy the 90 to 110 rocket ship, buy a couple of bigger sails, and hang onto the wide board for your light wind days.

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Paddles B'mere said..
I can't believe you blokes are recommending a skinny, low volume board to someone who can't gybe and only makes 50% of his tacks. As a fellow intermediate level sailor Tasdoc, I would recommend a wider freeride or slalom board, of an appropriate volume, to replace the Rio that will allow you to master tacking 100% of the time and then start to get you gybing. After you are mastering tacks and pulling off more gybes then buy the 90 to 110 rocket ship, buy a couple of bigger sails, and hang onto the wide board for your light wind days.

Well, 114L or so would fill the slot for his wind target market. We need to find out what he is on now and how many liters.

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Paddles B'mere said..
I can't believe you blokes are recommending a skinny, low volume board to someone who can't gybe and only makes 50% of his tacks. As a fellow intermediate level sailor Tasdoc, I would recommend a wider freeride or slalom board, of an appropriate volume, to replace the Rio that will allow you to master tacking 100% of the time and then start to get you gybing. After you are mastering tacks and pulling off more gybes then buy the 90 to 110 rocket ship, buy a couple of bigger sails, and hang onto the wide board for your light wind days.

Just to clarify I am not recommending skinny.
I mean pick a Rocket, not a Rocket Wide
Or pick the X-cite Ride, not a Magic Ride.
etc.
Still a big jump down from the big Rio

Rocket 125 sounds good, Fox 130 would be awesome. But like another said, don't buy flash you will only smash the nose. So far we are all talking new ish boards. Maybe a 5y/o Carve is best, keep it simple.

^+1
look at width more than volume
RIO was 80+ cm
what about 70 cm next - like a Fanatic Hawk 124 -- 242 cm x 70 cm -- range 5.5-8.5
the Tabou Rocket 125 fits the ticket too - 250 x 69 - longer and easier for tacks
(the Carve 121 is 251 x 75.5 - width too close to RIO)
as Mark says - go for a more traditional shape - coming from a traditional shape after all
when the wind and water get erratic, I still prefer long n narrow, but that is personal choice
and coming from longboards
if you purchase a board like that and try it for a year or two - there is a used market for them after

Joe
I was thinking about getting a 7.5 for light winds, but the 7.5 in my case means a new mast and a new boom. Quite an investment. And I really want to keep my gear set as simple as possible. With my RioM and the 6.5 sail I manage to plane from about 14knots and remain comfortable up to 22-23knots. I was hoping to get something with the same wind range, just extend the upper limit of the range a bit, so I can sell the Rio and pay for the new board.

I've been scanning the buy&sell part of this website for about 3 months now. There are mostly boards, that are too small for me, so it looks like I'm going to have to get a new one. The two shops in Melbourne have mostly SBs, Fanatics, JPs and Tabous, at least that is what on their websites. It looks like JPs and Fanatics are quite a bit pricier, than the other two. TheZu, actually, have a special on 2015-16 SB Atoms, selling it for $1700 or something

Hey tas.
the starship is a great choice .
also I have a 105 ,115,125 tabou LTD ROCKET .
they are fantastic is chop ,that's the reason for me buying so many .and fast .
have you thought of the 115 .4.5-7.5 sail .
very forgiving in chop and will give you the bigger sail use you will be chasing later .
im a little heavier @95 kg ,so I mainly use the 125 .due to our lack of wind on this side of the continent .
the 105 is also a good high winder .15 knot - and on .but is best suited to sails 7.0 and below .

I use my 125 in open ocean .



there is a 125 &135 rocket on the buy and sell .$950.

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joe windsurf said..
^+1
look at width more than volume
RIO was 80+ cm
what about 70 cm next - like a Fanatic Hawk 124 -- 242 cm x 70 cm -- range 5.5-8.5
the Tabou Rocket 125 fits the ticket too - 250 x 69 - longer and easier for tacks
(the Carve 121 is 251 x 75.5 - width too close to RIO)
as Mark says - go for a more traditional shape - coming from a traditional shape after all
when the wind and water get erratic, I still prefer long n narrow, but that is personal choice
and coming from longboards
if you purchase a board like that and try it for a year or two - there is a used market for them after

Joe windsurf has a good point on width over volume. When I was shopping around for a new board a year ago to replace my 2003 Naish Titan 110L board, I was talking to the staff at Big Winds. I told them I wanted a board similar to my 110L Titan which was 63cm wide and 252cm long. So they recommended the Naish Starship. Very similar shape to the old Titan, but in a newer generation build. Interestingly enough, the 100L Starship was as wide as my 110L Titan was, so I almost got the 100L Starship, but the only thing that kept me from getting the 100L was that the sail range topped out at 7.0, and my biggest sail is a 6.8. I felt the 6.8 was too close to the limit and thought the 115L Starship would handle the 6.8 much better, plus it's a little wider at 65.6 cm. All in all, glad I chose the 115L over the 100L. My smallest sail is a 5.2, and the 115L still rocks with a 5.2 sail size on it. And the Starship is much faster than my Titan was. Some of my buddies used to pass me on their gear when I was on my Titan, now I pass them up with my Starship. But yes, interesting thing about volume versus width.

Here in Perth it's windy and 6.8 would be considered a reasonably small free ride/slalom sail. You must get quite a lot of wind?

Some people need to think about the fact he is on a 190L beginners board and finds it bouncy when well powered

Too many people are caught up in the question 'what freeride board handles chop well?' when really the question here is 'what is a good first step down board' and bearing in mind he intends to sail it well powered it seems.

130 to 140L and not too wide (not an egg shaped freemove / wide freeride like AtomIQ BTW)
The reason I say that is they are designed to be lively and seems the OP wants predictable and easy going. More traditional narrow freerides - not 2002 narrow, I mean 5yrs ago style - are probaby best in that regard. Also much easier to learn to gybe on as the back leg step over to the other rail is not so extreme. Easier to waterstart for that reason also

IMHO

Mark,

I think you nailed it
The only question left which board out of the new ones, as it seems there not too many used ones available, that fit your description?

If l was you mate l would try as many demo boards as you can.you say you sail in choppy conditions so buy a board that will make your learning time fun.theres hundreds of second hand boards for sale. Stay away from slaloms boards look for a board that will just float you if you get into trouble GOOD LUCK with your endeavor of finding your new board.

Tasdoc - yes a hard size to find in comfy freeride as everyone wants one. I know freight is extra but I figure in Tas you will always be buying from up north

3 cheap boards (well half the price of new) that may enable u to keep your Rio as well:


X-Cite Ride 130L cheap
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Boards/~v0_r9/JP-Australia-XCite-Ride-250-cm-130-litres.aspx?_page=1&search=KVciLxcdxODws4lXhf1bSlt5pnPphGP%2BvjmFB8pHj1E%3D

Naish GT 140L cheap
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Boards/~vqwkm/2014-Naish-Gt-Sport-140-264-cm-140-litres.aspx?_page=1&search=KVciLxcdxODws4lXhf1bSlt5pnPphGP%2BvjmFB8pHj1E%3D

Carve 141L still cheaper than the new stuff you're looking at
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Boards/~virhz/2016-Starboard-Carve-141-251-cm-141-litres.aspx?_page=2&search=KVciLxcdxODws4lXhf1bSlt5pnPphGP%2BvjmFB8pHj1E%3D

Hey Tas, Mark has recommended 3 very good boards there. Definitely try as many as you can and don't be scared too much on the width in chop, a lot of the new freeride boards carry their width in front of the mast track for stability when tacking or slogging and then have reduced width and pulled in tails behind the mast track for when you're planing to keep them loose for turning and softer in chop, they also have a bit of vee under the mast track to soften the ride. Something to keep an eye out for is specials on new freeride boards. I don't know what your budget is, but you can get some red hot deals pop up occasionally for new boards. Good luck with it.

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Mark _australia said..
Some people need to think about the fact he is on a 190L beginners board and finds it bouncy when well powered

Too many people are caught up in the question 'what freeride board handles chop well?' when really the question here is 'what is a good first step down board' and bearing in mind he intends to sail it well powered it seems.

130 to 140L and not too wide (not an egg shaped freemove / wide freeride like AtomIQ BTW)
The reason I say that is they are designed to be lively and seems the OP wants predictable and easy going. More traditional narrow freerides - not 2002 narrow, I mean 5yrs ago style - are probaby best in that regard. Also much easier to learn to gybe on as the back leg step over to the other rail is not so extreme. Easier to waterstart for that reason also

IMHO

that was what I was implying - just not as succinctly as you

my review on your later suggestions:
SB Carve 141 $1400 & 80 cm - too wide, too much volume and too $$$
Naish GT 140 - 75 cm wide - a bit wide and too much volume - sailor is 70 kilos
JP Excite Ride 130 - 70 cm wide x 252 = GO FOR IT

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Sparky said..
Here in Perth it's windy and 6.8 would be considered a reasonably small free ride/slalom sail. You must get quite a lot of wind?

Our norm is 12-15 knots of wind. We get quite a few days of 15-20 knots as well, and occasional 20-25 knots.

We have two islands in the middle of our lake, and once the wind hits the second island, the wind starts building up. Pretty cool how that works. The second island is about 8 miles from where I sail, so the wind has time to clean out and build consistency after the wind pushes around the second island.

12-15 knots is light wind - for many of us
looking at our local statistics from May to August over the last 10 years - 10 days a month under 15 mph (but >10 mph)
for me that means longboard or wide freeride like JP SLW (with sails 8 to 10 meters!!)
that is why I need to lose 20 kilos
...
lucky lightweight sailors like Magic and Tasdoc DO exist !!!

Hi Tasdoc I am with Mark. I am 70kg's and moved from RRD Firemove 110l to Tabou Rocket 105. Loved the extra length and confidnece this inspired especially going deeper down wind. If you don't mind a bit of learning curve with the step down in litres and cms. I can't speak highly enough of my Rocket!

My precious