RRD, Tabou, Starboard, no longer have sub-80L FSWs. Neither will Fanatic from next year when they discontinue the non-stubby freewave. Seems like going forward the new stubby-shaped FSWs will all start at about 85L. Do the stubby shapes really have such volume and width-defying high-wind control?

Is there a need for sub 80 fsw?

there is if you only weigh 60 kg

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Windxtasy said...
there is if you only weigh 60 kg

Or even 70. 80-85 kg guys use 85-95l FSWs after all.

i have a 77l. might sell it

I have a 75. That I purchased before I realised how much weight I had put on in the last 20 years. Any microbes interested?

The smallest offered were around 78, maybe as low as 75.

with some research a FSW oriented Wave , might work nicely

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Windxtasy said..
there is if you only weigh 60 kg

Agreed. It is funny, as we spoke of this at the beach only today. In full-on wind many chicks only need 50L, in good planing 25kn maybe 70L, and a FSW offers a great balance between freeride and wave boards. OK fair enough it is not every day, but in a good WA summer day, or a winter storm, many gals are on 70L and a 3.2m and give up cos they are getting smashed. That can be for a week on end that they sit out as it is too windy. They can't find smaller gear! Are the board companies dumb or something? The gals need small boards. (DUH!!!)

Then also, what do teenagers use between their parents' smallest freeride and a "realistic sized board" for the kid? Once they progress there is nothing for them...
Does windsurfing actually seek to discourage newcomers???!!!!

A few years back we lamented the lack of fatman waveboards, the companies seemed to listen. Now we have them, but it seems at the expense of boards for chicks and the serious up-n-coming young ones
That is crap.

So board companies: it is not hard. If you are the only one doing a quality 50-60L waveboard, and a quality 60-75L FSW it will SELLLL.
If you are the only one doing a fatman waveboard (NOT a big board for anorexic professionals to go wavesailing in 8kn, there is a diference) it will SELLLLLL

Pick a niche and go for it!! .................. as it seems only 3(?) brands do a big waveboard (and one of them not well at all) and now NONE do a girls board
SHAME .



and back towards the original topic flavour - stubby FSW is a dumb concept.
Stubbies are designed to max out sh!t waves due to low swing length etc. They are pure wave boards, for less than perfect waves. A FSW is not. The best FSW's ever have had some length as they are basically a loose freeride to handle mega chop and blasting with comfort, and also ride a wave OK.
Stubby and FSW is a contradiction in terms, and any 'stubby' FSW is just an attempt to sell more boards as "stubby" is trendy. Like Evo in 2004...........................
The lack of people adopting the many egg-shaped freerides (and our continuance of the love of the normal width comfy boards like the Rocket etc) for planing in good hard conditions, shows that some of the short wide thin concept is lost on real world sailors. EG the AtomIQ was pretty and nice concept but limited use and thus a dead loss, everyone wants a Carve, Futura, Rocket etc. A bit of length, not an egg.
In FSW it is the same, we don't want a 220cm waveboard with a powerbox and 30cm fin labelled a FSW - we don't fall for that.
OK, some do


So a stubby FSW seems a marketing exercise to me.........

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Mark _australia said..

Windxtasy said..
there is if you only weigh 60 kg

Then also, what do teenagers use between their parents' smallest freeride and a "realistic sized board" for the kid? Once they progress there is nothing for them...
Does windsurfing actually seek to discourage newcomers???!!!!

Back around 2003/2004 Starboard and JP introduced a range of boards specifically for younger/lower weight riders. The Starboard 2005 range included a Prokids range consisting of a 48 litre Acid, a 62 litre EVO a 72 litre S-Type and a 117 litre Formula. They also had a "Diva" range, specifically for the ladies, which appeared to be essentially a purple coloured Evo. The smallest Diva was 62 litres.

Looking at the Starboard 2016 catalogue the Prokids range now only consists of an 81 litre Flare, a 117 litre Fomula experience and a 99 litre Go. The Go and Flare are obviously identical to the big kids boards.

So it appears that there hasn't been the support from the market for these ranges designed specifically for kids which is unfortunate and I would think indicative of the lack of kids getting seriously into the sport at a young age.

But there has to be a considerable market for lower volume boards for the ladies and it is surprising that none of the brands have identified this.

Freeride sailing for girls and kids in 30 to 35 knots seems like a pretty niche market for the board manufacturers but at least the quality and useability of small sails has got so much better. The 3.7 sails and smaller are so awesome now that sailing when its really smoking windy is a lot easier.

Ahem, you guys aren't helping by calling them girl's boards. If anything they are manliest man boards cause they sink! Maybe the new wisdom that multiple fins allow wave boards to be bigger (85 is the new 70) is also applicable to FSWs now. But tabou stubbied their 3s this year and their smallest is 85l. It's a single fin.
I want a fast sturdy jumpable board for 20+ knots in horrendous confused chop that is Port Philip in S/SW (cross-on). I am not sure if small wave boards make sense in these conditions. I'm 68-70 kgs. Maybe it's just an indication that the windsurfer population is ageing (people get heavier as they get older). OTOH, I've been told that 85L FSW and wave boards are the most used sizes and get the most testing, since the average windsurfer is 80-85. I used to be 10 kgs heavier a few years ago. I could just put the weight back on and I would have no problem!

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Mark _australia said..
The lack of people adopting the many egg-shaped freerides (and our continuance of the love of the normal width comfy boards like the Rocket etc) for planing in good hard conditions, shows that some of the short wide thin concept is lost on real world sailors. EG the AtomIQ was pretty and nice concept but limited use and thus a dead loss, everyone wants a Carve, Futura, Rocket etc. A bit of length, not an egg.
In FSW it is the same, we don't want a 220cm waveboard with a powerbox and 30cm fin labelled a FSW - we don't fall for that.
OK, some do


So a stubby FSW seems a marketing exercise to me.........

I don't think it's that simple. I have sailed a Fanatic Gecko (105 and 112, I think. The wood version was OK, the HRS one dull and heavy). I found my rocket wide 108 handles rough water much better and it's 73 cm wide!

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MrCranky said...
Ahem, you guys aren't helping by calling them girl's boards. If anything they are manliest man boards cause they sink! Maybe the new wisdom that multiple fins allow wave boards to be bigger (85 is the new 70) is also applicable to FSWs now. But tabou stubbied their 3s this year and their smallest is 85l. It's a single fin.
I want a fast sturdy jumpable board for 20+ knots in horrendous confused chop that is Port Philip in S/SW (cross-on). I am not sure if small wave boards make sense in these conditions. I'm 68-70 kgs. Maybe it's just an indication that the windsurfer population is ageing (people get heavier as they get older). OTOH, I've been told that 85L FSW and wave boards are the most used sizes and get the most testing, since the average windsurfer is 80-85. I used to be 10 kgs heavier a few years ago. I could just put the weight back on and I would have no problem!

Get OES or NUDE or STONE to make you a custom board.
PS or Carbon Art.

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Mark _australia said...

Windxtasy said..
there is if you only weigh 60 kg

If you are the only one doing a fatman waveboard (NOT a big board for anorexic professionals to go wavesailing in 8kn, there is a diference) it will SELLLLLL

Hey Marky Mark can you elaborate on the difference between a fatmans and a anorexic pro's boards?

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R1DER said...
Get OES or NUDE or STONE to make you a custom board.
PS or Carbon Art.

Rider,
With the RRP of cobra boards now 3500, custom is beginning to make a lot more sense. But supposedly the big brands test their boards a lot, especially their most popular size. Is it not a big advantage of cobra boards?

McCranky, I will design you the perfect small PPBay B&J board and you can get one of the OZ custom guys to build it for you. This thing I designed is the ducks guts, most fun board I have sailed on the Bay in a long time.

I've never seen a single back strap and such outboard front straps, what is the reason for that ? Does it make it hard to sail across the wind?

Yep, a bit extreme...screwed up a little. Idea was front outboard so I could weight the rail and get lots of speed but back in the middle so I could still snap it around pretty tight. It,s a B and Jump board not a wave board. It works but I went too far, need to put the front straps in just a bit. I can put the fronts in by going to single screw so will do that. Apart from that screw up the board is awesome for farting around on the Bay and gybes like you would not believe. FUN

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MrCranky said..

I don't think it's that simple. I have sailed a Fanatic Gecko (105 and 112, I think. The wood version was OK, the HRS one dull and heavy). I found my rocket wide 108 handles rough water much better and it's 73 cm wide!

No not that simple. It looks like the shape of your Rocket wide 108 is unchanged for 2017 . ( Tabou are upfront about noting when a shape is new. ) but it is now called a Rocket wide 110. A rose by any other name..

I've got a 50ltre speedboard thats ideal for me in 25kts-30kts in flat water. for lake use the smallest I could find was an older 68ltre Starboard acid.Id prefer a small freeride as you can at least put a decent fin in them.

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Agrid said...
I have a 75....

Boohyeah that hit the spot. Cheers Agrid.

56 cm's wide with power box and V right through the tail. Who would have thought it possible.... Genius!

If only you had a Mistral 91 Slalom to offload too. If anyone has an M91 to offload, pm me please.

I think there are still a number of boardmakers making freestyle waves still at lower volumes e.g. 2017 Goya One Freewave Pro comes in:
64 ,74, 78, 85, 95,105 & 115

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aribenasher said...
I think there are still a number ....still at lower volumes

With Universally Sh#*e fin boxes. Three Universally Sh#*e fin boxes no less.

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Oversupply said..

aribenasher said...
I think there are still a number ....still at lower volumes

With Universally Sh#*e fin boxes. Three Universally Sh#*e fin boxes no less.

Noted and Thanks. I understood,unless I missed it, the ambit of the thread was FSW volume. I think US box is fine for freestyle or wave use at lower fin depths since it is lighter. The mini tuttles for side fins are fine or you can insert blanks so it is a single fin. The US Box can in my experience take up to 12-13.5 inch fins. I have, among others, some carbon "US box" fins Rainbow fin company (11.5 inch) and Naish carbon slalom race fins (12 inch) from the late 80s and early 90s which are supremely stiff. I agree and think for free ride use something like a powerbox or tuttle even better.

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Ian K said..

MrCranky said..

I don't think it's that simple. I have sailed a Fanatic Gecko (105 and 112, I think. The wood version was OK, the HRS one dull and heavy). I found my rocket wide 108 handles rough water much better and it's 73 cm wide!

No not that simple. It looks like the shape of your Rocket wide 108 is unchanged for 2017 . ( Tabou are upfront about noting when a shape is new. ) but it is now called a Rocket wide 110. A rose by any other name..

Ian,

The Rocket Wide did change. Mine is 2015. In 2016, they added more footstrap holes to allow you to have them more outboard, but no other changes AFAIK. In 2017 they changed the rocker and added more dome at the back. I was out on mine yesterday and the lack of dome and back straps not being far out enough mean that I have to have my foot half way out of the back strap to really push against the fin.



EDIT: It appears they actually added more inboard inserts in 2016.

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Oversupply said...

Agrid said...
I have a 75....

Boohyeah that hit the spot. Cheers Agrid.

56 cm's wide with power box and V right through the tail. Who would have thought it possible.... Genius!

Excellent! Did you get to use it today?

No.
There are criminal consequences using a FSW in WA. Living off the proceeds of a FSW is illegal too. We're both in trouble.

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mr love said..
Yep, a bit extreme...screwed up a little. Idea was front outboard so I could weight the rail and get lots of speed but back in the middle so I could still snap it around pretty tight. It,s a B and Jump board not a wave board. It works but I went too far, need to put the front straps in just a bit. I can put the fronts in by going to single screw so will do that. Apart from that screw up the board is awesome for farting around on the Bay and gybes like you would not believe. FUN

Duck guts...is a new one to me. Will have think about it.

the board looks great

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sboardcrazy said..
I've got a 50ltre speedboard thats ideal for me in 25kts-30kts in flat water. for lake use the smallest I could find was an older 68ltre Starboard acid.Id prefer a small freeride as you can at least put a decent fin in them.

I use my 63 L speed board in the ocean in high wind to handle the chop, but I'd really prefer something in the same size but slower...

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Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..
I've got a 50ltre speedboard thats ideal for me in 25kts-30kts in flat water. for lake use the smallest I could find was an older 68ltre Starboard acid.Id prefer a small freeride as you can at least put a decent fin in them.

I use my 63 L speed board in the ocean in high wind to handle the chop, but I'd really prefer something in the same size but slower...

I generally the Magazine tests are pretty harsh in slow freeride boards which is a pity because slower boards can be a lot of fun to sail. I have sailed some of the smaller single fin waveboards and freerides and some were ridiculously fast....great for fast big waves or light weights that want to sail in 20 knots but hard to control in 30 to 40 knots despite their small size.

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R1DER said..

Mark _australia said...

Windxtasy said..
there is if you only weigh 60 kg

If you are the only one doing a fatman waveboard (NOT a big board for anorexic professionals to go wavesailing in 8kn, there is a diference) it will SELLLLLL

Hey Marky Mark can you elaborate on the difference between a fatmans and a anorexic pro's boards?

Wouldn't a fat man and an anorexic use the same size board in vastly different conditions?
An 85 litre fat man's board would favour control over speed and vice versa for the anorexic.