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GoPro "Black Edition"

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Created by jh2703 > 9 months ago, 7 Dec 2012
jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
7 Dec 2012 3:26PM
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Got it on Wednesday and gave it a run yesterday(no windsurfing, Maybe today), The footage was filmed in the 4K mode @ 12fps just to see what it was all about. Watch it in HD to see what it's like, As SD looks like any other GoPro footage. I'll post a review once I put it into action and work it all out, So far I think it looks sweet.

What's your thoughts?

Gorgo
VIC, 5108 posts
7 Dec 2012 3:42PM
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Shoot at 1080p/60fps. When you get a piece of nice action you can slow it down and it looks as smooth as silk.

stehsegler
WA, 3557 posts
7 Dec 2012 1:56PM
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Thanks for sharing. Did you order direct from the US?

As for the 4K /12 fps mode... i am still trying to think up a scenario where you might use it. I though maybe for zooming in when you run it at 1080. Would be interesting to put the 12 fps through twixtor and upconvert to 25 fps.

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
7 Dec 2012 6:08PM
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stehsegler said...
Did you order direct from the US?



Got it local in Gerringong, I've had it on back order since the original release and apparently very lucky to get it even now.

4k.....bit of a gimmick at this stage I think but who knows what sort of potential it has?, Not me that's for sure. 2.7k uses 30fps so that could be more readily used for the big epic scenery shots I guess. I normally only use 720 as that's what Vimeo down scales your vids to anyway, So 720 @ 120fps will now be my standard selection.

snides8
WA, 1731 posts
7 Dec 2012 4:42PM
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stehsegler said...
Thanks for sharing. Did you order direct from the US?

As for the 4K /12 fps mode... i am still trying to think up a scenario where you might use it. I though maybe for zooming in when you run it at 1080. Would be interesting to put the 12 fps through twixtor and upconvert to 25 fps.



I guess you could drag quality stills out of it?

I used mine a couple of weeks ago on 1440
And the 2 laptops I tried it on struggled. So I have
Reduced it back to 960,hopefully this will be better.

Reflex Films
WA, 1459 posts
7 Dec 2012 8:23PM
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hi res is the final polish to the image

things the human eye notices first are

Dynamic range and contrast
Color saturation
lensing
and then finally resolution - as long as its not macro blocking or vhs soft you are usually pretty good.

So best to shoot 720 - no one can really tell the difference on the web - and if the lensing is good it'll look super sweet. I gues that applies more to a dslr than the Go Pro.

I have had cases recently where i have used 1080p in sd timelines to reframe shots slightly - its handy. I reckon 4 k mode would be good for cheat dollies on timelapse / sped up footage shots - locked cloudy landscapes for example

120 fps sounds pretty sweet - although it would be good to have a 720 / 25 p mode that uses all that information for super sweet frames.

And then use twixtor if necessary.




Snowbum
NSW, 41 posts
8 Dec 2012 2:04PM
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I don't know why you would use 4k for time lapse when it shoots 12MP?

Even 1080 is near impossible to see the pixels on a 50" monitor. I use two 50" side-by-side and with 1080 scaled across both screens it begins to make use of the high res/def.

I agree; anything over 720 is being wasted. Vimeo know it, Apple know it (though Apple caved to consumers and increased their max HD size), Australia broadcast TV know it - they call 576i HD and broadcast very rarely higher than 576.

So all we are really seeing here is 4k scaled down to 720 and compressed by; the camera, the user (in editing) and then Vimeo. When someone buys me a $25,000 4k tv I'll be able to decide if shooting 4k is worth it. Or I could crop it up through my edit sweet.
But then my monitor is letting me down since the best it can do is 768@85Hertz or 1200@60Hertz

2k@30fps is usefull if your lazy, can't frame your shot or move closer.

ALL photographers know to invest in good glass (lenses). Investing in GoPro3black is not investing in good glass it's buying a overhyped, well marketed toy that is unavailable - AND I WANT ONE TOO!
Only not at $999 - that was the price of the last Black available in Sydney, yesterday!

I'll settle for a Drift HD Ghost with a 7-element glass lens and no hardcase to cause fogging.

Zed
WA, 1274 posts
8 Dec 2012 1:07PM
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Snowbum said...
I don't know why you would use 4k for time lapse when it shoots 12MP?

Even 1080 is near impossible to see the pixels on a 50" monitor. I use two 50" side-by-side and with 1080 scaled across both screens it begins to make use of the high res/def.

I agree; anything over 720 is being wasted. Vimeo know it, Apple know it (though Apple caved to consumers and increased their max HD size), Australia broadcast TV know it - they call 576i HD and broadcast very rarely higher than 576.

So all we are really seeing here is 4k scaled down to 720 and compressed by; the camera, the user (in editing) and then Vimeo. When someone buys me a $25,000 4k tv I'll be able to decide if shooting 4k is worth it. Or I could crop it up through my edit sweet.
But then my monitor is letting me down since the best it can do is 768@85Hertz or 1200@60Hertz

2k@30fps is usefull if your lazy, can't frame your shot or move closer.

ALL photographers know to invest in good glass (lenses). Investing in GoPro3black is not investing in good glass it's buying a overhyped, well marketed toy that is unavailable - AND I WANT ONE TOO!
Only not at $999 - that was the price of the last Black available in Sydney, yesterday!

I'll settle for a Drift HD Ghost with a 7-element glass lens and no hardcase to cause fogging.




I didn't follow what you were saying 100%, but I get your point. Nice post :)

gregc
VIC, 1299 posts
8 Dec 2012 8:34PM
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so why a Drift????

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
8 Dec 2012 9:58PM
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$999, That's madness! Mine was $463 with a free memory card and free shipping. If your desperate to get one it might be the only way, Talking to a distributor they don't expect to see any till sometime next year, No date known. To top it off they still have hundreds of pre-orders that they need to ship from the next batch.

It all sounds impressive on paper with it's specs an all the other crap......And I'm a real sucker for that type of stuff. So I've bought another toy that won't get used properly or to it's full potential. But you know what? I don't care, I've got a flash new GoPro "Black Edition" and in my mind that's so cool.....That said I've got a lot of strange stuff going on in my mind.

gregc
VIC, 1299 posts
8 Dec 2012 10:18PM
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Im thinking of buying another GoPro 2 with maybe the wifi backpack as the prices have now started to come down and it makes for good buying I think.

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
10 Dec 2012 8:20AM
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I've used the same clip again and played with the "pan & crop" tool in my editing software to see just how far I could push it before I lost resolution in the image. The cropping is extreme and the quality of the image holds up quite well, I think sometimes it's hard to notice any at all.

I'm loving my "Black Edition"

Snowbum
NSW, 41 posts
10 Dec 2012 9:19AM
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gregc said...
so why a Drift????



Very user friendly camera VERY user friendly!
And also;
"I'll settle for a Drift HD Ghost with a 7-element glass lens and no hardcase to cause fogging."
The lens rotates, it's cheaper......

Snowbum
NSW, 41 posts
10 Dec 2012 9:22AM
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Black produces fantastic images. All these (action) cameras have very little separating them.

Loving your vids jh.
I've been sharing them round on another forum. Hope that's ok?

What do you edit with? system/software.

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
10 Dec 2012 10:48AM
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^^^ I use a tricked out laptop running windows 7 (64bit) and an intel i7 (with dedicated graphics card) and 16 gig of ram, My chosen editing software is Sony Vegas Pro and I also use Adobe After Effects for intros and the like. The laptop does lag a bit with the 4K footage, It has some delay when editing and previewing the timeline at full resolution. As you'd know a laptop is not ideal for video editing but I like having the freedom to take my computer where I go so I can play around with my clips anytime.

...I don't mind you using my clips, I only do them for fun...If someone can learn something from my goofing around then all good.

Cheers

Reflex Films
WA, 1459 posts
10 Dec 2012 12:05PM
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nice results! - i think that is a pretty solid case for the 4k mode being useful.


you can go to more extremes and speed up time using the built in intervalometer

here are some pretty extreme moves using all the pixels in the pics off a GP2 - the new GP should have even more pixels to play with



shots are ungraded so they look pretty flat - a quick grade gives the images more punch.

Snowbum
NSW, 41 posts
10 Dec 2012 10:19PM
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I agree 4K is useful but wouldn't say its a "solid case" if this lags while editing;
"(64bit) and an intel i7 (with dedicated graphics card) and 16 gig of ram"

With an hour of 1080p my dedicated (brand new) mac-pro shows signs of slowing. I can just imagine how a "consumer" laptop will manage with more than a few minutes of 4k being processed.

Reflex Films
WA, 1459 posts
10 Dec 2012 7:48PM
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transcoding is your friend (prores / cineform etc etc) - you can edit terabytes of fat fotage like butter all day long (at the expense of larger files) - evn on an older machine

everyone claims that native editing of Mpeg 4 / h.264/ AVCHD (what comes off Go pros and most DSLRS is possible - but its always laggy or just plain stops working -

any of this stuff native (generally MPG2, 4 etc etc) will choke just about any machine

Final Cut X ( i am transitioning from 7 which is great) leverages the hardware and chipset beautifully

CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
10 Dec 2012 11:41PM
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Snowbum said...
I agree 4K is useful but wouldn't say its a "solid case" if this lags while editing;
"(64bit) and an intel i7 (with dedicated graphics card) and 16 gig of ram"

With an hour of 1080p my dedicated (brand new) mac-pro shows signs of slowing. I can just imagine how a "consumer" laptop will manage with more than a few minutes of 4k being processed.


How is an MBP not just another 'consumer laptop' but in a hipster suit? It is after all just an x86 box like anything else...you can go out and buy a machine with better specs for half the price...it just won't 'look as cool' Your argument is invalid

stehsegler
WA, 3557 posts
10 Dec 2012 9:34PM
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Reflex Films said...
everyone claims that native editing of Mpeg 4 / h.264/ AVCHD (what comes off Go pros and most DSLRS is possible - but its always laggy or just plain stops working -


Have you tried Premiere CS6? Adobe really seems to have done a lot of work on the product. One of the new and improved features is that you can drop any footage into the timeline, play it back and apply effects without transcoding. I have tried it with 1080p footage from both the GoPro and a 5D Mark III and it seems to work without stuttering or dropped frames unless you stack several complex effects.

Haven't tried anything 4K footage though...

stehsegler
WA, 3557 posts
10 Dec 2012 9:37PM
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Snowbum said...
With an hour of 1080p my dedicated (brand new) mac-pro shows signs of slowing.


Not wanting to diss your brand new Mac-Pro but according to Barefeets most Macbook Pros and 2012 iMacs show better video editing benchmarks unless you max out the Mac Pro with 64 Gbytes of ram.

At least that's what their tests show.

stehsegler
WA, 3557 posts
10 Dec 2012 9:38PM
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CJW said...
...you can go out and buy a machine with better specs for half the price...it just won't 'look as cool'


or run OSX and FinalCut.

BTW, try and spec a good quality Windows Laptop from Hitachi or Sony. You'll find the price works out about the same as buying a Macbook Pro.

Zed
WA, 1274 posts
10 Dec 2012 11:13PM
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stehsegler said...
CJW said...
...you can go out and buy a machine with better specs for half the price...it just won't 'look as cool'


or run OSX and FinalCut.

BTW, try and spec a good quality Windows Laptop from Hitachi or Sony. You'll find the price works out about the same as buying a Macbook Pro.



I still reckon the macbook pros would be more expensive. And yeah the hardware is similar, but OSX is streets ahead of Windows 7 for reliability, security, performance. My Mac has crashed once in 2 years. And when it crashed it went into sleep mode suddenly and that was it.

SeanAUS120
QLD, 769 posts
11 Dec 2012 9:38AM
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stehsegler said...

Have you tried Premiere CS6?



Totally agree. Premiere CS6 is light years ahead of anything else.

Haven't had any lag on my PC with the 4K footage out of th GP3.... but they don't make Macbook's as fast as my PC yet ;-)

Reflex Films
WA, 1459 posts
11 Dec 2012 8:54PM
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Premiere is great - and love the integration of photoshop , After effects - the editing process , methodology and thinking is very similar to final cut pro - which isnt a bad thing.

The ability to use lots of different footage easily is fantastic.

Here is a hot tip- Final Cut X is an incredibly underrated piece of software.I have recently made the switch over from Final Cut Pro Studio 7 (which i still use for motion graphics) to Final Cut X

- in terms of pure hard core editing - Final Cut X has boosted the editing process in a way that will be seen as revolutionary when judged in time

The old school editors (like myself) resisted - and still do resist - but when you spend a day with x you soon see how visionary the re imagining of the edit process has been.

The original version of the software was a bit suss - but in 10.06 the software is incredibly progressive.

I'm talking heavy duty, lots of cuts , soundtrack sync, split edits, b roll and compound clips - with the use of magnetic timeline, live skimming, primary and secondary storylines - the sort of moves that really make the edit "invisible" to the viewer. The software gets out of the way and lets you tell your story really intuitively.

Having frame rate conform (take your 720p/50 /60 and 1080p/ 50/60 and conform to 25p right on the timeline) and optical flow(a basic version of twixtor if you like) right on the timeline is incredibly handy

I know a few professional editors that have recently made the switch and are incredibly impressed by how well this software lets you edit. Timewise - if you do a lot of editing - X will save you time and money. And for the price - its a bargain!

For decent effects you still really have to dabble in after effects (although good results can be got out of Motion 5)

Snowbum
NSW, 41 posts
14 Dec 2012 6:26AM
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stehsegler said...Not wanting to diss your brand new Mac-Pro but according to Barefeets most Macbook Pros and 2012 iMacs show better video editing benchmarks unless you max out the Mac Pro with 64 Gbytes of ram.

At least that's what their tests show.

MacPro not macbookPro and not iMac.
8TB internal storage, 16GB ram, 6-core processor.
Weighs 20kg! It ain't no consumer lappy. I'll soon double the ram - it's cheaper from 3rd party sellers than Apple, and swap out 3 drives taking it to 11TB.

I tried FinalCut X for 6 months but ended up back with FCP7.
Mainly for editing stuff shot with my prosumer camera gear (and fixing the camera mans mishaps )

FCX works a treat and is a quicker workflow.
My previous computer developed an odd random crash and didn't like FCX at all.
^Probably the only reason I stopped using X. It's being repaired by Apple under warranty.

Snowbum
NSW, 41 posts
14 Dec 2012 6:33AM
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CS6 is a great set.
I learned on Premier but once you go mac...

haha, no I'm not a Apple fanboi
You can build a great PC and keep rebuilding it, staying ahead of the pack and have the best most advanced machine - you can even run apple OS them.

But I prefer to spend my time surfing/snowboarding and making videos than building computers.
If it breaks warranty can take care of it.

joe windsurf
1482 posts
14 Dec 2012 8:14AM
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has anyone tried the WingmanHD ??

Gorgo
VIC, 5108 posts
14 Dec 2012 11:32AM
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Snowbum said...
gregc said...
so why a Drift????



...it's cheaper......


The cheapest I have seen the Ghost is $439. The GoPro Black is under $350 including shipping.

Zed
WA, 1274 posts
14 Dec 2012 8:32AM
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Reflex Films said...
Premiere is great - and love the integration of photoshop , After effects - the editing process , methodology and thinking is very similar to final cut pro - which isnt a bad thing.

The ability to use lots of different footage easily is fantastic.

Here is a hot tip- Final Cut X is an incredibly underrated piece of software.I have recently made the switch over from Final Cut Pro Studio 7 (which i still use for motion graphics) to Final Cut X

- in terms of pure hard core editing - Final Cut X has boosted the editing process in a way that will be seen as revolutionary when judged in time

The old school editors (like myself) resisted - and still do resist - but when you spend a day with x you soon see how visionary the re imagining of the edit process has been.

The original version of the software was a bit suss - but in 10.06 the software is incredibly progressive.

I'm talking heavy duty, lots of cuts , soundtrack sync, split edits, b roll and compound clips - with the use of magnetic timeline, live skimming, primary and secondary storylines - the sort of moves that really make the edit "invisible" to the viewer. The software gets out of the way and lets you tell your story really intuitively.

Having frame rate conform (take your 720p/50 /60 and 1080p/ 50/60 and conform to 25p right on the timeline) and optical flow(a basic version of twixtor if you like) right on the timeline is incredibly handy

I know a few professional editors that have recently made the switch and are incredibly impressed by how well this software lets you edit. Timewise - if you do a lot of editing - X will save you time and money. And for the price - its a bargain!

For decent effects you still really have to dabble in after effects (although good results can be got out of Motion 5)





At the moment I'm using imovie which is OK, a bit limited. In the post I've used Pinnacle Studios, which was better. I'm after something that is easy to pick up & not too complex yet still has a lot of bells & whistles. Are Final Cut & Premier fairly easy to master?

Zed
WA, 1274 posts
14 Dec 2012 8:40AM
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Gorgo said...
Snowbum said...
gregc said...
so why a Drift????



...it's cheaper......


The cheapest I have seen the Ghost is $439. The GoPro Black is under $350 including shipping.



Where is the gopro black selling for $350?



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"GoPro "Black Edition"" started by jh2703