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Forums > Windsurfing General

Diary of a New Windsurfer

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Created by Gos > 9 months ago, 5 Jan 2014
RumChaser
TAS, 625 posts
26 Mar 2014 10:20AM
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The feeling of windsurfing is awesome, and I don't mean that lightly. You're also learning that other parts of the sport are awesome too. Good times are to be had on shore too!!!

GWilko
SA, 110 posts
26 Mar 2014 10:05AM
Thumbs Up

Nice update,

The SPEED feeling is awesome, the best thing is you are still going fairly slow, it gets better, and then there's AIR.
It's good reading, keep the updates coming.

Cheers
Graeme

terminal
1421 posts
26 Mar 2014 8:07AM
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That's really good progress Gos!

Getting the harness unhooked quickly thing isn't really the usual progress. The usual progress is to avoid getting pulled off balance. Its easier to avoid the catapult in the first place than to escape from it.

You are nearly into the really good stuff now. Water starting and using the harness and straps is where it's at.

zemax
WA, 64 posts
26 Mar 2014 11:50AM
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Hey Gos it seems we are at pretty much the same point learning wise. It's good to see I'm not the only one struggling with water starts! The few I've succeeded at were when the wind was strong enough to pull me onto the board, no point trying when the wind's weak with a smallish sail.
Do you guys have a faorite side? I've done a lot of snowboard and my natural stance is left foot in front, which is the same windsurfing. On tacks where I have my right foot in front I still feel very stiff and uncoordinated.

John340
QLD, 3233 posts
26 Mar 2014 3:46PM
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Gos

Terminal's comment re avoiding the catapult rather than escaping from it is spot on. Its almost impossible to unhook if you think you are going to catapult. You just don't have enough time. The trick to avoiding the catapult in the first place is to sit in your harness and put your feet in the footstraps, so the sail has to lift your body weight and rotate the board to catapult you. If you are standing upright and not using the footstraps then the sail only has to rotate you forward around the mast base.

Keep on pushing the envelope. The rewards are fantastic.

Stuthepirate
SA, 3590 posts
26 Mar 2014 7:26PM
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Select to expand quote
Gos said..
Ok further update; I am so freakin excited...
Last: there is always someone to talk to after windsurfing. Must pack some beers in an esky and enjoy the de-rig chats.


Truer words have never been spoken

Gos
WA, 50 posts
27 Mar 2014 9:54AM
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Select to expand quote
John340 said..

Gos

Terminal's comment re avoiding the catapult rather than escaping from it is spot on. Its almost impossible to unhook if you think you are going to catapult. You just don't have enough time. The trick to avoiding the catapult in the first place is to sit in your harness and put your feet in the footstraps, so the sail has to lift your body weight and rotate the board to catapult you. If you are standing upright and not using the footstraps then the sail only has to rotate you forward around the mast base.

Keep on pushing the envelope. The rewards are fantastic.


aha... (re straps) that makes a lot of sense actually. My Tyronsea board doesn't have any straps so the catapulting is likely going to keep happening. I definitely need to progress and start spending more time on the Mistral 161 freeride board (and in its straps) instead of staying in my comfort zone on the Tyronsea.

thanks everyone for the tips! I'll give the straps, waterstart technique, etc all another crack this afternoon.

zemax
WA, 64 posts
27 Mar 2014 11:32AM
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You lucky bugger! I bet you'll enjoy yourself as the wind is supposed to be picking up! I can see the river form work.. making it even more frustrating

Gos
WA, 50 posts
27 Mar 2014 12:38PM
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Select to expand quote
terminal said..

As I said before, having about 70% of the pull of the sail on your front hand is the best advice I can give you for learning to beach start or waterstart.

Once you have learned how to do it well, you will then use about 60% on the front hand to waterstart.


when you wrote this a month ago... i didn't really get it and couldn't understand how anything other than 50:50 effort would get me standing up from a waterstart. Now I get it... I think during my first few waterstarts I remembered something about this and realised that i was pulling on the back hand too much which meant the force on the sail wasn't quite right to bring me up - i'd just fall back in the water having only got half way up. When i pulled with the front hand, and used my hamstring to push on the back foot the sail seemed to pull me up much easier.

I guess that the front hand is closer to the mast, so when pulling on it to bring the body upright your weight and force is directed down the mast which is attached to the board, which floats and provides resistance whilst the sail brings you up... whereas too much weight/force on the back hand (away from the mast) drags the whole rig away towards the back of the board instead of up?

terminal
1421 posts
27 Mar 2014 5:45PM
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Select to expand quote
Gos said..

terminal said..

As I said before, having about 70% of the pull of the sail on your front hand is the best advice I can give you for learning to beach start or waterstart.

Once you have learned how to do it well, you will then use about 60% on the front hand to waterstart.


when you wrote this a month ago... i didn't really get it and couldn't understand how anything other than 50:50 effort would get me standing up from a waterstart. Now I get it... I think during my first few waterstarts I remembered something about this and realised that i was pulling on the back hand too much which meant the force on the sail wasn't quite right to bring me up - i'd just fall back in the water having only got half way up. When i pulled with the front hand, and used my hamstring to push on the back foot the sail seemed to pull me up much easier.

I guess that the front hand is closer to the mast, so when pulling on it to bring the body upright your weight and force is directed down the mast which is attached to the board, which floats and provides resistance whilst the sail brings you up... whereas too much weight/force on the back hand (away from the mast) drags the whole rig away towards the back of the board instead of up?


The pulling on your front hand means there is more push on your front foot which pushes the nose downwind and that keeps the board from turning upwind and effectively depowering you.

Get someone to show you how to set up each sail and where to put the harness lines and the height of the boom etc. and note them down. It will make it easier when the setup is just right. Learn not to hook into the harness until you are in the straps and planing.

evets
WA, 685 posts
27 Mar 2014 9:39PM
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Excellent write up of your experiences Gos, well done for sticking at it. you are now experiencing the really exciting bits of windsurfing. For hundreds of us the feelings of elation you get when waterstarting, hooking in, accelerating, planing and more have never gone away. Keep at it. Our sport is one that keeps on giving!
There is a beginner where I sail, I hope he (Shane ) reads your posts as they will help him.

boardsurfr
WA, 2433 posts
28 Mar 2014 7:37AM
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Gos said..

I guess that the front hand is closer to the mast, so when pulling on it to bring the body upright your weight and force is directed down the mast which is attached to the board, which floats and provides resistance whilst the sail brings you up... whereas too much weight/force on the back hand (away from the mast) drags the whole rig away towards the back of the board instead of up?




Exactly! Keep the front arm long and get your head over your toes. The more upright you can get the mast, the less wind you need for the water start. Check this image:



This is from a movie in the "Advanced Windsurfing" ebook from the RYA. The book has about 8 pages about the waterstart with many pictures and three movies. It has lots of other stuff you may find useful, too. Costs £10.49 (£8.74 if you do not live in the EU). Check http://tiny.cc/mkkedx

NetoMx
26 posts
2 May 2014 4:37AM
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Hey everybody has been a while since my last login to the seabreeze.

I have been struggling with the size if my sail, I have a 6.5m I guess it's ok for 12-18 knots or something like that. But whole winter has been around the 25 knots. Being that my only sail sometimes I didn't care and I took it out and try to learn something on shore just to learn more how to handle it, jump into a beach start or just to feel the overpower whatever.

So my question is can anyone suggest me a size for a new sail? Don't know if I should put attention on the size of my board or just stick with the idea of that I am a beginner and just get a small sail. A Freeride or freewave what is easier to handle? I am 70 kg and have a 155lt Freeride board. 4.9? 5.5? Or even smaller???

Hey eternalnoob thanks for the reply I will keep with the English if I don't make my self clear just try to explain my self hahahaha , how long have you been windsurfing and where do you live now?

Cheers everyone

RumChaser
TAS, 625 posts
2 May 2014 11:13AM
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I reckon you will always have trouble with 155 litres in 25 knots of wind regardless of the sail size. My advice is to get a smaller board for the stronger winds. In 25 knots I would be on my 90 litre.

evlPanda
NSW, 9204 posts
2 May 2014 1:12PM
Thumbs Up

^ ^ 70kg in 25 knots you will feel far, far, faaaar more comfortable on aboard around 85 litres with a 5.0.
Even a 4.7 sail if it's a "solid" 25 knots.

155 litres in 25 knots is going to be a real handful for anyone. It's just way too big a board.

Lucky for you 85 litres and 5.0/4.7 is a really sweet size combination. Perhaps even the best in windsurfing. It's just a real sweet spot.

I'd recommend a FreeStyleWave board and a wave sail if you are in open water like a bay or ocean. They're just made for choppy conditions like this.

Starboard Kode or JP FreestyleWave or Fanatic FreeWave (what I got) or etc.

Don't let the "intermediate skill level" tag of these board put you off. They're easier to ride in 25 knots than anything else. And I still reckon the easiest boards to gybe.







NetoMx
26 posts
2 May 2014 3:03PM
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Thank you both iceman and evlpanda for replying. I understand that 155lt is big for my size but I am still a beginner learning to windsurf so you already know why I am on a big board. As soon as I understand a little bit more how to handle the sail I will get a smaller board like you said. But I want to get a smaller sail so I can go out there.

But are you saying that I am wrong trying to learn over this board with a small sail? Probably I can get something between 4.7 and 5.0 to improve without buying a new small board I am still in the process of learning the basics. And you suggest to go for freewave over freeride right?

I windsurf on a bay is correct.

MarkSSC
QLD, 639 posts
2 May 2014 6:57PM
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Hi.

I am replying to this post because I ride a larger board, 146l. I use a 5.7 and 6.7 freeride sail depending on wind. Until I graduate to a smaller rig (waiting for a good bargain on a JP Allride) I try to make do when the wind begins to climb. To 'tame the beast' it is a good idea to look at your fin size as a lot of lift is developed by the larger fins which come standard on boards like mine. The large fin causes the board to dance across the waves rather recklessly. I went from a 48cm down to a 38cm and it made a lot of difference when planing. Another tip I learnt was to rig the mast forward of centre, about 3cm, as this brings the nose down a bit when in high powered situations. The sail can also be flattened out by using more outhaul. Playing around with the rig like this can sweeten the ride in mor moderate conditions. Smaller boards are the go though.

cammd
QLD, 4019 posts
2 May 2014 8:38PM
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Smaller boards are the go in high winds if you can waterstart easily, use the harness and foot straps correctly and keep your weight on the rig ie your an intermediate sailor. If your still uphauling and not using the straps and harness I think a small board will be way more difficult than something with more volume regardless of the wind strength. I would get a smaller sail before a smaller board, even with a smaller board you will more than likely want something less than a 6.5m in 25 knots.

NetoMx
26 posts
2 May 2014 10:34PM
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Thank you cammd and markssc I think that I should buy first a smaller sail too. The 6.5 it's overpowered in my opinion over th 20s. So what would be a nice size to get a 4.7, a 5 or 5.5? Thinking also that in the future I might get a smaller board than the 155 that I have.

I think that we are talking of my main sail for something from 22knts to 28's (this was the range almost all the time that I wet to the beach this winter), than maybe something in between my 6.5 and this new sail; for 15-22. But I really have no clue of sizes and ranges of sails. Maybe 1 sail covers from the 20 to the 30???

Thanks guys

NetoMx
26 posts
3 May 2014 12:03PM
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Hey I found a 2012 naish force 4.7 and also a 2012 session 4.7 any advice

terminal
1421 posts
3 May 2014 4:36PM
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The Force is a power sail and the Session is more of a on/off handling sail. Naish had stiff top masts/sails from 2009 to 2011 and they are now more the stiff top side of constant curve range. Sails work a lot better on a mast with the same curve characteristics as the mast the sail was designed for.

From 6.5 to 4.7 is too big a gap. There is more light wind than strong wind and you are coming into the summer now - which tends to bring lighter winds, so I think a sail of about 5.3 or 5.4 that is designed to go on a 430 mast would be about right.

What mast do you have?

NetoMx
26 posts
3 May 2014 10:28PM
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I have a 460 naish Freeride 30 SDM.

You are right that summer is coming and there will be lighter winds. I just feel that I need something smaller than my 6.5. So I can learn mush easier. I guess that I should stay with the same brand be cause the similarity on the feeling that they might have in between their sails. (I'm just guessing)

So whatever makes my learning process is what I am looking for

terminal
1421 posts
3 May 2014 11:51PM
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Select to expand quote
NetoMx said..

I have a 460 naish Freeride 30 SDM.

You are right that summer is coming and there will be lighter winds. I just feel that I need something smaller than my 6.5. So I can learn mush easier. I guess that I should stay with the same brand be cause the similarity on the feeling that they might have in between their sails. (I'm just guessing)

So whatever makes my learning process is what I am looking for




I think from 2009 on the Naish sails intended for masts of 430 or less were designed for RDM masts, but I can't be certain about that. A 460 is going to be very stiff for a small sail and being an SDM, you may need to go to 2008 or older with Naish sails to get the big enough luff. You are also going to have to get a sail with what is called a vario top, which means there is a long strap at the top of the sail to allow you to fit a mast designed for a 400m or 430 mast onto a 460 mast.

I don't think you can get a small sail that is going to work well with that mast because the mast is so stiff, so I guess you just have to go for the best compromise. I don't think there is any point spending a lot of money on a sail, so buying an old used wave sail of the type that can be set quite flat on that mast would be what I would do if I had to get a small sail for that mast. The Session for example is a flatter sail than the Force, which is designed to be more powerful. The Naish sail I had before the Force was called the Nalu, and a used 5.25m version of that would be one of the better options - if you could get one.

Main thing is don't spend much money on whatever sail you get.

RumChaser
TAS, 625 posts
4 May 2014 10:12AM
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This is where it gets a little bit difficult. Using sails on the wrong mast is workable but not ideal. You are going to have to make decisions on how you want to go from here. I've got 4 sails, 3 masts and 3 boards and this would be considered a small collection by most riders. I can see how a smaller sail will get you on the water more often but it won't be easy with the big board. Best advice I could give is to get the water start nailed so you have more options. If you are going to get a smaller sail it would be good if you could get the right mast as well, if you continue with the sport you will need it anyway. Just to give you an idea I use 4.2, 5, 5.9 and 7 size sails but a lot depends on what the wind conditions are like in your area. I think a 5.3-5.5 would probably be a good companion to your 6.5, though in anything over 25 knots you will need something smaller.

NetoMx
26 posts
4 May 2014 8:48AM
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Tnx again ill see what i can get but definitely need something smaller

NetoMx
26 posts
4 May 2014 3:08PM
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Hey iceman thanks for your reply. I feel that way that I am planning to keep trying until I get it. I have been working with my waterstart but it's little difficult with the 6.5 Being my first sail. I think I got it but still need a lot of effort. And haven't plan yet.

And yes I definitely need the smaller size. What do you recommend me 5.5, 5.3 or 4.7
For 25 knots.

terminal
1421 posts
4 May 2014 4:22PM
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NetoMx said..

Hey iceman thanks for your reply. I feel that way that I am planning to keep trying until I get it. I have been working with my waterstart but it's little difficult with the 6.5 Being my first sail. I think I got it but still need a lot of effort. And haven't plan yet.

And yes I definitely need the smaller size. What do you recommend me 5.5, 5.3 or 4.7
For 25 knots.


At your weight with that board, the 4.7 would be the right size at a genuine 25 knots.

There is a calculator for this sort of thing here...
www.poolewindsurfing.co.uk/windsurfing-boards-windsurfing-sails-size/

NetoMx
26 posts
4 May 2014 11:25PM
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Ok then I think I should start looking for something like the naish session I guess. What's the difference between a naish force and a nish session, a power sail and a soft feeling sail? This guy of a store said to me that the force was easier than the vibe (this sail replace the session in 2014) and the names make me feel the opposite.

I don't care about the brand but have been reading that some brands use more back hand pressure and for example naish is more front hand pressure that I should consider to stay with same brand. So I won't waist time figuring out in how to handle a new sail, me being a beginner.

And thanks again I feel I am getting somewhere finally.

terminal
1421 posts
5 May 2014 12:17AM
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If you are using that 460 mast, then you need a sail with a vario top strap that is long enough to reach to the top of that mast. A sub 5m sail is not going to sit right or feel right on that mast, which is why I suggested that you buy a cheap old sail with a vario top that will sit fairly flat on that mast. There is no point in buying an expensive modern sail to use on that mast.

NetoMx
26 posts
5 May 2014 12:48AM
Thumbs Up

All right thanx for your responses



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"Diary of a New Windsurfer" started by Gos