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Forums > Windsurfing General

Dealing with catapults

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Created by leenis > 9 months ago, 29 Sep 2012
leenis
SA, 34 posts
29 Sep 2012 11:32PM
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I'm now at the point of experiencing frequent catapults when sailing in decent wind. From what I have learnt the best way to travel through a catapult is to sheet in and go with it. Last weekend I went out in 20 knot winds and had some great stacks. Not that I am trying to get catapulted, it just seems to happen when I get in or near the harness lines.

Each take-off and landing was always different. On a starboard tack I would either land at 10 to 11 o'clock, or 1 to 2 o'clock of the board. During one of the many catapults I let go of the boom mid-flight, flying to about 2 o'clock of the board. It knocked the wind out of my chest. I think the deviator took care of the mast sending it off to the other side of the board.

So if a catapult is controlled and depowered properly through sheeting in, where is the ideal impact zone and where should the rig end up? And is letting go a good or bad thing to do when in mid-flight?

flatout
85 posts
29 Sep 2012 10:36PM
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Whenever i am about to catapult... I just stop and start being awesome instead
No seriously, why not concentrate on how not to catapult instead of how to do it properly. I haven't done it in ages. Rig the sail properly and learn to deal with gusts by scanning the water and preparing for it with a good 7 stance and an active back leg.

lee1972
QLD, 921 posts
30 Sep 2012 8:30AM
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We've all been there bud, I'd be looking at my sail rigging as that's the usual suspect and then harness lines position. On the positive side think of it as forward loop training, just keep your feet in the straps.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
30 Sep 2012 8:51AM
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It had been a while since experiencing a catapult. However sailing this last winter I've had a few. I think its mainly due to the weed where I was windsurfing. I took a video of one of my stacks. This one was not due to weed, I don't think but the fin was not firmly fixed in the finbox.

Stuthepirate
SA, 3591 posts
30 Sep 2012 8:23AM
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been there done that. Best advice i got was to use the underhand grip on your forward hand. with this grip when you fell like a catapault is ominous, pulling down on this hand acts like a kill switch. Also, when going for the rear footstraps move your back hand back towards the clew about 10-15cm to stabilize your stance.

powersloshin
NSW, 1844 posts
30 Sep 2012 9:20AM
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Amost all of the catapults I had happened when I did not have both feet in the straps, so I would try and get in the straps as early as possible. The other cause of a catapult is leaning the mast too far forward, is it possible that when you are dealing with the harness lines you are doing that ? And also I learned that you should never let go of the boom, expecially if you are hooked, hold on to it as hard as you can, that will absorb the hit on your body when you land and also soften the blow to your board nose.

Stuthepirate
SA, 3591 posts
30 Sep 2012 9:01AM
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powersloshin said...

And also I learned that you should never let go of the boom, expecially if you are hooked, hold on to it as hard as you can, that will absorb the hit on your body when you land and also soften the blow to your board nose.


Apparently this is good practice for forward loops

174
NSW, 190 posts
30 Sep 2012 9:53AM
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leenis said...

I'm now at the point of experiencing frequent catapults when sailing in decent wind.

Yeah I would skip trying to master catapult technique. Sounds like you're charging though! Can I suggest:
a) look upwind rather than at your sail so you can see the gusts coming.
b) don't try and hook in heading downwind. Head upwind a little which will bring the lines closer, hook in, then bear away a bit to get planing.
c) try long harness lines if you're not already, it gives you a bit more room to move esp when you're getting comfortable. e.g. 30"

jh2703
NSW, 1225 posts
30 Sep 2012 10:48AM
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Just sink more weight into your harness, I mean all your weight. You are just being pulled up onto your toes and off balance which leads to the catapult. Commit to your harness and you'll learn to control the power.

Have fun

T 11
TAS, 811 posts
30 Sep 2012 11:26AM
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powersloshin said...

I learned that you should never let go of the boom, expecially if you are hooked, hold on to it as hard as you can, that will absorb the hit on your body when you land and also soften the blow to your board nose.


Not a good idea unless you want your shoulder destroyed, speaking from experience

powersloshin
NSW, 1844 posts
30 Sep 2012 12:46PM
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T 11 said...

powersloshin said...

I learned that you should never let go of the boom, expecially if you are hooked, hold on to it as hard as you can, that will absorb the hit on your body when you land and also soften the blow to your board nose.


Not a good idea unless you want your shoulder destroyed, speaking from experience


maybe I should not have said 'never', but in my case it is the shoulders or the back and neck. If you are hooked the whiplash is pretty scary

gregwed
QLD, 556 posts
30 Sep 2012 2:21PM
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When I used to do them, I found I didn't have total control of my feet, ie. not fully in the straps, especially the back one. With your back foot in you should be able to stop getting pulled forward.
Good luck, it'll all click one day.....
Cheers

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
30 Sep 2012 2:22PM
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powersloshin said...

T 11 said...

powersloshin said...

I learned that you should never let go of the boom, expecially if you are hooked, hold on to it as hard as you can, that will absorb the hit on your body when you land and also soften the blow to your board nose.


Not a good idea unless you want your shoulder destroyed, speaking from experience


maybe I should not have said 'never', but in my case it is the shoulders or the back and neck. If you are hooked the whiplash is pretty scary

I agree the whiplash can be lousy but if your not holding onto the boom can't you twist harness lines and end up on the equipment?

NotWal
QLD, 7435 posts
30 Sep 2012 2:41PM
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I think you're on the money Leenus, in getting a good catapult technique down. Most just concentrate on avoiding them and never learn to loop.

Nimrod
SA, 58 posts
30 Sep 2012 3:27PM
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The expert panel is pretty much on it leenis.

Your not afraid to take the hit and that will mean heaps later on once you get your set-up sorted.

I have a mate who had exactly your problem. bigger sail on a light day he's fine. When he changed down and got powered up, He's over the handlebars every 20 metres. I shifted his mastbase back 60mm problem dissapeared simple as that.

All a foreward is a controled catapault. Wait until ya laying them down on flat water landing on the plane. nothing else in watersport like it.

I sail with guys who think they are attempting forewards but not commit by leaning foreward a bit off the wind and sheeting in. They end up doing a doorky looking half a barrel roll thing and land on their gear. good way to hurt yourself.

I see your is SA. Pased through there last year on our way home. Found some awesome spots with 25-30 knots cross off and 2m swell and no one out but us.Whats the deal with that?

leenis
SA, 34 posts
30 Sep 2012 6:19PM
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Nimrod said...

The expert panel is pretty much on it leenis.

I have a mate who had exactly your problem. bigger sail on a light day he's fine. When he changed down and got powered up, He's over the handlebars every 20 metres. I shifted his mastbase back 60mm problem dissapeared simple as that.


This sounds like me
I will try to change the mast base position and see how that goes. I generally set the mast base in the centre of the track. So the boom is just clearing the back of the board.
The sail was rigged with as much down haul as I could grunt out of it, 1cm more than the sail specs. There were no vertical lines or wrinkles in the sail near the mast. All the battens were clear of the mast. The bottom batten was only just off the mast. The guy I was sailing with said it was rigged fine and the top was twisting off fine. I ended up increasing the out haul to reduce the power in the sail and the catapults became less frequent.
I was catapulting both with and without being hooked in. Foot straps are not on the agenda yet because I am barely getting in to the harness lines. I think I was leaning the mast forward sometimes while dealing with the swell and trying to hook in. That must be what was giving me the uncontrolled power.
I am a bit of a light weight. 66 Kg so that does not help much either.
How do you work out the best position for harness lines and how high should the boom be? I have guessed the lines should be on the 5th dot on my NP boom. The boom height is just over shoulder height. I have been reading the PDf's on Guy Cribbs website in regards to rigging.

Thanks for all your advice. I am keen to stop all this flying and spend more time sailing.

leenis
SA, 34 posts
30 Sep 2012 6:23PM
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powersloshin said...

Amost all of the catapults I had happened when I did not have both feet in the straps, so I would try and get in the straps as early as possible. The other cause of a catapult is leaning the mast too far forward, is it possible that when you are dealing with the harness lines you are doing that ? And also I learned that you should never let go of the boom, expecially if you are hooked, hold on to it as hard as you can, that will absorb the hit on your body when you land and also soften the blow to your board nose.


Is it best to get in the straps first then hook in? Most people have said get hooked in first then find the straps.

decrepit
WA, 12802 posts
30 Sep 2012 5:03PM
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Regards hanging on and letting go. If you're hooked in, never let go!!!! You can get slammed into the mast head first, (hope you're wearing a helmet!). Hanging on helps to keep you away from the rig.
If you can unhook, then letting go can fling you well away from the rig without such a forceful landing.

If you're not in the straps, running up the board with the catapult can lessen the severity as well.

As others have said powered up, hooked in out of the straps is a recipe for catapults. I think you should concentrate on getting into the straps as soon as you have enough power to do so.

Once you're good at it, most people would hook in first, but if when learning the art, and well powered up, searching for the straps with your feet, or looking down to see what's going on can easily send you over the front.
The trouble with getting in the straps first, is a lack of power in the rig, so there may be a tendency to sink the tail. You need to go as fast as you can while unhooked, then try not to loose power when you go for the straps.
It's all a juggling act, try both ways see what works the best for you.

petermac33
WA, 6415 posts
30 Sep 2012 5:25PM
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Learn to sink every last ounce of your weight into your harness.

In a gust,i push my weight in harness FORWARD + LOW and head upwind if i feel i can't handle it.

Look ahead for big gusts.

The near 45 degree downwind 4th leg of the Lancelin Marathon is forward catapult paradise,especially if the wind is up.

fanatic02
NSW, 304 posts
30 Sep 2012 8:53PM
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T 11 said...

powersloshin said...

I learned that you should never let go of the boom, expecially if you are hooked, hold on to it as hard as you can, that will absorb the hit on your body when you land and also soften the blow to your board nose.


Not a good idea unless you want your shoulder destroyed, speaking from experience


I did that and my shoulder ended up in my armpit . Was out of
Action for 12 months , I would not advise that !!!!!!!

tjsports
38 posts
30 Sep 2012 9:37PM
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I am an intermediate sailor. I found using a seat harness rather than a waist harness and using adjustable harness lines made a big difference to th enumber of catapults. I would go sailing for an hour and catapult 30 times. I think yesterday was my first time sailing without one.

Nimrod
SA, 58 posts
1 Oct 2012 2:02AM
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When I was learning in Mauii they taught me front foot strap first, pump it up on to the plane, hook in then back foot.

Probably best to practice in that order then you can progress onto hooking in before the straps when the skills have developed a bit.

Sounds to me like your getting everything lined up pretty good Leenis.
Just get out there and build that skill and hone that technique.

IF you ever get the chance to go to Hawaii, a couple of lessons in Mauii is killer to purge out any bad habits.

T 11
TAS, 811 posts
1 Oct 2012 6:44PM
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Sorry Decrep I have to disagree and I think fanatic02 does as well, I had a catapult at around 35 kts and held on as hard as I could because I read on this forum that it is the best way, but when the rig stops dead and you keep going something has to give and by hanging on I ended up tearing my shoulder apart and having 7 months off to get over shoulder op.
Why can't the inventors out there come up with something like a ski binding release to dump the load off the harness hook. Some of the Pit Crew guys have tried a weak link in the harness line

powersloshin
NSW, 1844 posts
1 Oct 2012 8:36PM
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probably there is not a best rule for every situation, but in my opinion if you let go and were still hooked in you could have damaged your spine , which could potentially be more disastrous. Yes would be great if a bit of research time were invested in finding a safer type of harness lines

T 11
TAS, 811 posts
1 Oct 2012 8:47PM
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powersloshin said...
but in my opinion if you let go and were still hooked in you could have damaged your spine , which could potentially be more disastrous. Yes would be great if a bit of research time were invested in finding a safer type of harness lines


Not sure how you would damage your spine although I wear a seat harness, impact vest and helmet and normally would just break a harness line, straighten out the hook or break the boom. It makes you a bit cautious, just dont do it in shallow water.

decrepit
WA, 12802 posts
1 Oct 2012 8:14PM
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T 11 said...
>>>>>
Not sure how you would damage your spine >>>>


A catapult I had, hooked in but not hanging on, slammed me into the water hook first, this really bends you backwards at the waist, it tore the harness apart and seriously bent the boom.
Don't think it damaged my spine, but if I was going faster it felt like it could have.

Seems a bit like the argument for and against helmets, head damage without them, neck damage with them.

A weak link looks like the best answer.

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
2 Oct 2012 10:52AM
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decrepit said...
Select to expand quote

Seems a bit like the argument for and against helmets, head damage without them, neck damage with them.


You have a greater chance of KOing yourself by a head knock than doing spinal, so I'll go with the helmet every time - but it's also based on my type of sailing...out of control & chop-hopping.

Re; Catapults, it's part of the learning stage & if you can get them on film, it makes for a good laugh after a sesh!

I remember when 5 catapults per sesh was the norm for me (beginning), now I only catapult when I'm not concentrating or I hit something...so down to about 1 every 5-6 seshs.

joe windsurf
1482 posts
2 Oct 2012 9:08AM
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just today a fellow windsurfer catapaulted with some collateral damage
he had a brand new Fanatic RAY LTD 115 - good deal since end of season here
when he catapaulted he cracked the board with the mast and the boom hit his hand somehow. we helped him pack his stuff and strongly suggested he go straight to the hospital ...
and this fellow has been windsurfing for a while ...
hell of a way to baptize a board on first outing
personally i try to avoid catapaults at all costs
i have a footstrap phobia so my feet push against the sides of the board
if there are gusts or overpowered i hunker down with as much as MFP/mast foot pressure as possible, try to ride the gust and IF all else fails i pull the sail ON me - i think it helps if you are a heavyweight like me for this ie 100 kilos/220 lbs
i prefer the phobia of the sail on me OVER the catapault

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
2 Oct 2012 12:25PM
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Nimrod said...
I see your is SA. Pased through there last year on our way home. Found some awesome spots with 25-30 knots cross off and 2m swell and no one out but us.Whats the deal with that?


Sharks ate everyone.

joe windsurf
1482 posts
3 Oct 2012 7:26AM
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a baby's arm holding an apple ?

pedro e
VIC, 257 posts
6 Oct 2012 9:57PM
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I don't catapult so much now but since I speed sail when I do they tend to be hard enough to break my harness lines at the webbing. I used Pryde adjustables and although I am not a heavyweight at 70kg, the lines will let go at the webbing with a catapult at around 35knots or over. It is all over so quickly I never feel the lines go. I tend to do this once or twice per year which I reckon is cheaper than new booms.

Occasionally I get enough warning that things are going pear shaped to unhook and leap clear. I did this once at 40knots when the fin let go and the board started going sideways and it was quite fun actually.

Although when things get ugly it isn't fun - like last winter when I smashed my nose badly and spent a week in hospital having two little metal clamps put on a small cut artery in the bridge of my nose which wouldn't stop bleeding. I now wear a full face ice hockey helmet but now I worry a bit about neck injuries...



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"Dealing with catapults" started by leenis