I recently had a chance to try out the modified tail of my 2016 iso, and have to say that (at my level) cut outs and cut aways don't do a damn thing to improve the handling at all. Very happy with the performance and the gybe arc is absolutely superb. Just my opinion, but these gimicks just don't interest me any more!

Careful Pepe, you will end up with a board that looks like one of my dinosaurs from when you were young and good looking

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pepe47 said..
I recently had a chance to try out the modified tail of my 2016 iso, and have to say that (at my level) cut outs and cut aways don't do a damn thing to improve the handling at all. Very happy with the performance and the gybe arc is absolutely superb. Just my opinion, but these gimicks just don't interest me any more!

"Modified tail", is this an alteration you had done?

By handling do you mean control? I don't think the purpose of the cut out's have ever been for better control. I thought it was for a board riding with higher nose? Freer board, so maybe less control.

The topic of cutouts came up the other day and thinking about it I realised I couldn't say, without looking, whether the board I've been sailing for the last two years did or didn't have them! Had to check the back of the van, yes the 2016 Tabou Speedster has vestigial cutouts.

You should have started with the fin first

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NotWal said..

pepe47 said..
I recently had a chance to try out the modified tail of my 2016 iso, and have to say that (at my level) cut outs and cut aways don't do a damn thing to improve the handling at all. Very happy with the performance and the gybe arc is absolutely superb. Just my opinion, but these gimicks just don't interest me any more!

"Modified tail", is this an alteration you had done?

I did the modification based on information from Dk peterman, just used balsa instead of foam and painted in colour matched from a paint supplier in W.A. Then had second thoughts and removed the cut outs completely. I didn't like the tail shape at all, so the sides were built up, adding another litre, roughly, in volume. I'd say that it's now around 104 litres, owing to the fact that starboard guesses the volume instead of measuring it and my adding around a litre or so. There's a couple of shots of the process on my profile. A good eye will pick out the mistake with the white paint, which I had to redo a couple of times till it matched up.

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fangman said..
Careful Pepe, you will end up with a board that looks like one of my dinosaurs from when you were young and good looking

I recall being young once.

On some boards the cutouts are tiny , I seen on one a triangle the size of half a matchbox on either side , there is no way you could feel them . They would be for looks only .

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choco said..
You should have started with the fin first

I had to do a bit of panel work to hide the join of the carbide (2mm) join on the leading edge to the carbon foil. It's a carbon copy of Fangy's foil, and I do mean that literally It's ugly as a hat full of arseholes but works a treat, especially in weed borne particles of sand and shell grit.

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Ian K said..
The topic of cutouts came up the other day and thinking about it I realised I couldn't say, without looking, whether the board I've been sailing for the last two years did or didn't have them! Had to check the back of the van, yes the 2016 Tabou Speedster has vestigial cutouts.

"Vestigial" is one of my favourite words.

I thought cutouts were to reduce the wetted area and therefore the drag of the rear of the board in a straight line. I don't believe they are there to help turning. That's my understanding of it anyway.

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pepe47 said..
I recently had a chance to try out the modified tail of my 2016 iso, and have to say that (at my level) cut outs and cut aways don't do a damn thing to improve the handling at all. Very happy with the performance and the gybe arc is absolutely superb. Just my opinion, but these gimicks just don't interest me any more!

I am really interested in your experience in future Pepe, and whether you can pick a difference in handling and/or if it shows up in the GPS Data when using the board.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Whats-the-idea-of-cutouts-in-slalom-boards?page=1

I think they were and are gimmicks, cut outs .

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pepe47 said..
I recently had a chance to try out the modified tail of my 2016 iso, and have to say that (at my level) cut outs and cut aways don't do a damn thing to improve the handling at all.

I cant say yay/nay for cutouts on smaller boards... but cutouts on formula boards are definitely noticeable and (generally speaking) are an enhancement.

Other types of cutouts are rail-wingers and the non-curved-tail-outline (such as on the AtomicSurf Masterblaster or Starboard Isonic / etc)

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Maddlad said..
I thought cutouts were to reduce the wetted area and therefore the drag of the rear of the board in a straight line. I don't believe they are there to help turning. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Agree.I have a few board some with cut out some without.the ones with the cutout feel lighter in the tail,and isn't as nice in chop .but it goes like hell.but I think you are correct in saying it doesn't make the board handle better compared to my rocket which has no cutouts.
I really like the cutouts in flatter waters,has a nice take off.I don't feel the smaller board require cut out as the narrow tail is thin enough.

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mathew said..

pepe47 said..
I recently had a chance to try out the modified tail of my 2016 iso, and have to say that (at my level) cut outs and cut aways don't do a damn thing to improve the handling at all.

I cant say yay/nay for cutouts on smaller boards... but cutouts on formula boards are definitely noticeable and (generally speaking) are an enhancement.

Other types of cutouts are rail-wingers and the non-curved-tail-outline (such as on the AtomicSurf Masterblaster or Starboard Isonic / etc)

Wingers to me are a tail shape, they have been used with cut outs, 3S. Wingers allow the tail to narrow, while keeping the forward section wide. The concept makes sense to me. Their is probably a double winger board out there, surf boards I have seen.

My thoughts are you can make shapes too complicated , for any one feature to come into its own.My Formula board and a 105 Hypersonic have cut outs, but I cant say how they perform without them, so do they achieve anything ?
Tabou in smaller boards like to have aides , the duck tail on earlier models was a sort of cutout, but all the way across the tail, it lasted a few years. To me it detracted from early planing, it may have made the board feel smaller.

Pepe47 going way back and off track.......any updates on the
LDV G10 conversion?
I am about to purchase the 9 seater and your advise is invaluable best on www by far

I too was sceptical re cut outs so I took my old 2015 Isonic 107 which had the v tail and double step cutout and filled in one of the cut out steps and filled in the in the tail section like the 2017 iso.
The board rode flatter, felt more comforatble in the chop and gybed better but it felt sticky and slower.
The SB blurb said they increased cut out size area for 2017 which I didnt do.
So in my opionion cut outs work but i am sure the same effect could be obtained with different designs but I guess designers want to make incremental changes rather than a clean sheet approach.

That's right Col, they'd have f##* all to do next year on the new models. Tabou rockets were a good example as they only did graphics until the wide model was brought out. Still love the rockets!

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forceten said..
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Whats-the-idea-of-cutouts-in-slalom-boards?page=1

I think they were and are gimmicks, cut outs .

I reckon cut outs probably originated from shaping mistakes.
Some company made a board which was sticky and sailed nose down so they reduced tail area with cut outs and it flew properly.
They could have corrected the rocker line/outline but that's far too much work.
Plus, the marketing man came along and could see 'sales gimmick' written all over it, so they carried on with the idea.
Chances are that with big wide tails they are a must to get rid of all that excess area but I see many boards which have 'gimmick' written all over them.

What board was it 20years that had cutouts about half way back, I was thinking it was tiga
helped the board plane earlier. (So they said)

waterplanes also use steps in the in the floats to unstick them from the water. I think the problems was they suck in air which traveled back to fin causing it to loose grip.

Mike Davis had the "Ski Tail" on his earlier slalom boards which was a 15cm or so wide section that stayed flat all the way to the tail but either side of that the foam was sanded gradually back to the tail that left a raised section about 2-3cm. Tom Leudecke used it to win the Guam Cup back in the 80's. Ive got a picture of one of my old MD boards around somewhere.

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Te Hau said..

I reckon cut outs probably originated from shaping mistakes.
Some company made a board which was sticky and sailed nose down so they reduced tail area with cut outs and it flew properly.

Well the average sailor doesn't have the touchy-feely board assessment skills of a race winner, but we have our suspicions. But what are the chances of the optimum hull outline/area at the tailend for given conditions corresponding to the ideal rail position to put your back foot? Not high. Maybe the same result could be achieved with fair lines top and bottom. They could be called flared gunwales. Certainly be more aesthetically pleasing.

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Te Hau said..

forceten said..
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Whats-the-idea-of-cutouts-in-slalom-boards?page=1

I think they were and are gimmicks, cut outs .

I reckon cut outs probably originated from shaping mistakes.
Some company made a board which was sticky and sailed nose down so they reduced tail area with cut outs and it flew properly.
They could have corrected the rocker line/outline but that's far too much work.
Plus, the marketing man came along and could see 'sales gimmick' written all over it, so they carried on with the idea.
Chances are that with big wide tails they are a must to get rid of all that excess area but I see many boards which have 'gimmick' written all over them.

I think it was formula that drove cutout development, moving to big powerful tails, sails & fins all driving the nose down.

They definitely work, boards with adjustable cutouts have noticeable changes in trim. But I dont think they're quicker than a properly designed board without cutouts having sailed some really quick 80w boards over the years without cutouts. If I was making my own boards they would be made without, it does seem that they evolved to a marketing thing. Have measured quite a few boards & on every one the cutouts always change or end at too convenient points ie 10cm from tail cutout changes, 20cm cutout ends sort of thing makes me think it's relatively yeah there looks good thing otherwise testing would have it at wierd points like 22.8cm.

I think it's also interesting that they went from 20mm deep cut outs one year to 10mm the very next year. Or am I being overly suspicious?!

Cutouts look flash and sell . It's not something that jumps to mind when building a board .
I have a older Formula board that not only has multiple cutouts and various angles and dangles And is about as spectacular as a rear end can get , ( and I still hate it ) , and there is no way I could feel what's going on compared to a smooth average of that shape .
Ive happily used many boards with and without cutouts .
I now have four favourite boards that cover everything from wild to float and none have cutouts .
Well one does , a slalom F2 but that's in its plan shape , not a 10 mm deep cutout .
Im no expert , average at best .

maybe it's time to put back the "air pipes" ??