Almost speechless, it is that bad.
Repairing a big soft spot on a 2011 model freewave board that the manufacturer described as a real world wave conditions sort of board, and all the brochure pics show big jumps and slashing waves.
Cut off the deck laminate to find wood and glass. ONLY.
I call that about SUP standing area construction, but it is in between the foot straps on a wave board and it appears the whole board is same.




Yeah that is a bad pic but it is 1.76mm !!!!!!! 1.76mm of total outer layer and most boards have around 5mm. The styro is not more dense, and there is nothing technological and flash going on to account for the thinner sandwich, its just plain deficient.
No wonder this had massive failure just from standing there, gybing.




Lesson is "wood sandwich construction" means nothing. Don't buy it unless you can see a brochure pic with all the layers in a cutaway view huh?
How about some honesty from the companies?

I have a raceboard currently at the repair shop having major work done to the deck, same issue, same factory I think. At least your lasted 6 years mine is a 2015 model.

^^^ nah not mine.

Glad I got it old and damaged for cheap, I'd be pissed if I bought it new and all the other manufacturers' boards were"normal"construction. You just don't know ....

I'd like to see you confront the brand with this to put it out there for all to see. I think the windsurfing consumer deserves to know if a brand is cutting corners and the board buyer is not getting what they're paying for. That brand is on my radar for possible future purchases but it won't be if this practice is common place with their boards.

In the "Technology" section on the Fanatic web site, the 3D image of the "Custom wood sandwich" (CWS) construction shows a "High density PVC sandwich core", but adds "(in nose area)". That actually makes the diagram a bit confusing, since the section shown is between the straps and the mast base.
Interestingly, the diagram for the HRS construction shows no PVC layer at all. The BXF description has the words "FULL PVC SANDWICH".

All that could indicate that there is no PVC layer in the CWS boards, except in the nose. But looking at the Board Lady's web site, that may not be that bad. She has a picture of a Surftech wood veneer board with EPS, inner glass, and structural wood veneer that she labels "Strong and gorgeous".

Technically, a wood veneer with fiberglass on both sides is also a sandwich construction. It would be interesting to see how the physical properties differ from a PVC sandwich. I would not be surprised if it has similar (or even superior) characteristics with respect to breakage after big jumps. Delamination could be a different issue... which reminds me that I really should get started on the repair of my 2011 FS PVC sandwich board that's gone all soft around the front straps .

Not surprised. For a period of 5 years I managed to get a board replacement from a big brand every season because the area between the foot straps went soft. Replacement was done without questions.That said at one point they split the range into carbon and wood construction just like every other brand. Strangely the carbon construction boards from that year didn't have the problem.
Would be interesting to see what 2017 board cut open look like.

boardsurfr I know what you mean, that is quite confusing. Maybe a translation issue from a euro manufacturer ?

But on the Surftech thing, she refers to a surfboard- I thinks she's saying its strong for a surfboard....

I rate this as slalom board construction at best. The industry standard for wave boards has been PVC sandwich for the back 3/4 (at least) of the board, with few layers of glass and maybe the addition (not substitution!!) of wood.
When you see "wood sandwich" from every other manufacturer you see PVC, glass and wood.
This appears to be (thin) 2oz, 2 layers of the standard 0.6mm pine, and another 2oz.

The whole board is soft, nose hits have been a total mess not just dings, and the standing area felt like jelly.
Gobsmacked

You must like a challenge to buy as a fixer upper.
Whats going to be your repair plan ?

Select to expand quote

actiomax said..
You must like a challenge to buy as a fixer upper. Whats going to be your repair plan ?

Got no wood at the moment so to kinda reasonably duplicate that I will use 200gsm unidirectional carbon, and then glass as usual.
Was tempted to insert PVC but have to rebate it down 3mm extra, it might just later break along the perimeter where it meets the existing sh!tty laminate , too hard :) Gotta be reasonable about what effort is worth it...its not a new board.....
If still a bit flexy after that, an extra layer of 4oz over everything from the track back will only add another 200g and should tie it all in nicely. Might be worth it
Still won't be a hard jumper with my 100kegs lol - but you never know

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said..
Would be interesting to see what 2017 board cut open look like.

Would be nice if the companies showed us.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..

actiomax said..
You must like a challenge to buy as a fixer upper. Whats going to be your repair plan ?

Got no wood at the moment so to kinda reasonably duplicate that I will use 200gsm unidirectional carbon, and then glass as usual.
Was tempted to insert PVC but have to rebate it down 3mm extra, it might just later break along the perimeter where it meets the existing sh!tty laminate , too hard :) Gotta be reasonable about what effort is worth it...its not a new board.....
If still a bit flexy after that, an extra layer of 4oz over everything from the track back will only add another 200g and should tie it all in nicely. Might be worth it
Still won't be a hard jumper with my 100kegs lol - but you never know

But Mark , is not carbon straight on glass a no no ?....... OK I'll move on.
4 oz over everything sounds good.
Cant beat over engineering and at 200g at 100kg + 20kg board ang wet rig ..... that's like .00000003 % less power to weight ratio. Even a fancy brochure can't claim that !
I still think a extra 100gm of resin squeegeed through the first layer over the blank , delam won't happen.
Even spraying 50gm of resin on blank first.
Most people won't worry about 100gm and $ 0.12 extra cost.
I love new stuff but it's sooooo fragile , just look at sails .

Select to expand quote

Imax1 said.. But Mark , is not carbon straight on glass a no no ?....... OK I'll move on.4 oz over everything sounds good.

Cant beat over engineering and at 200g at 100kg + 20kg board ang wet rig ..... that's like .00000003 % less power to weight ratio. Even a fancy brochure can't claim that !
I still think a extra 100gm of resin squeegeed through the first layer over the blank , delam won't happen.
Even spraying 50gm of resin on blank first.
Most people won't worry about 100gm and $ 0.12 extra cost.
I love new stuff but it's sooooo fragile , just look at sails .

The idea is to make a similar strength structure, and same thickness
Over engineering does not help in board repairs, could slap on 10 layers of glass and it will break at the interface. nice and blended in same construction is best.

I have found that one layer of uni carbon is very similar to the 0.6mm pine laminate they use on boards. Similar enough anyway.
The stiffness, strength, how it breaks (along the grain) is all reasonably similar to the wood. Enough for a small repair anyway... of course over the whole board I imagine it would be quite different.

Thus, for this one I reckon 4oz, then 200gsm uni carbon, then 4 x 4oz would be getting close (seems they used 2 layers of wood)
Hard to say when one is used to 'normal' boards

There are some strange laminates, I have a formula board that on the bottom has outside wood then 2 mm foam then carbon on the inside. ( I know this because of a thruster fin mod so I don't have to use the kilometre long fin ). What surprised me was the outside wood layer was like varnished , no glass no nothing. How the tensile or impact strength of that wood has me confused. It's a Starboard formula.
The top of the board layer seemed like one layer of uni directional carbon , that's it. No wonder it's so light and no wonder my 115kg heel cracked the deck while walking around the front tacking.
Anyway crap board,
So covered the whole deck in 6oz glass and totally covered in foam , now kids and dog friendly. Goes upwind awesome and turns like it's got a centreboard. Slow.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
Almost speechless, it is that bad.
Repairing a big soft spot on a 2011 model freewave board that the manufacturer described as a real world wave conditions sort of board, and all the brochure pics show big jumps and slashing waves.
Cut off the deck laminate to find wood and glass. ONLY.
I call that about SUP standing area construction, but it is in between the foot straps on a wave board and it appears the whole board is same.




Yeah that is a bad pic but it is 1.76mm !!!!!!! 1.76mm of total outer layer and most boards have around 5mm. The styro is not more dense, and there is nothing technological and flash going on to account for the thinner sandwich, its just plain deficient.
No wonder this had massive failure just from standing there, gybing.




Lesson is "wood sandwich construction" means nothing. Don't buy it unless you can see a brochure pic with all the layers in a cutaway view huh?
How about some honesty from the companies?

Maybe it was just a prototype where they want to make it cheap to test it's shspe, painted/stickered up as a production.
Edit The company may not be aware of how the factory has been making their boards for them, I doubt the company randomly selects a board and then dissects it for quality control

Not disagreeing that this appears to an inadequate construction.

But the PVC and wood has a different purpose? The PVC is to separate the fibre layers, and 5mm if probably better than 1.5mm. Where as the wood is both a natural composite in it own right and has considerable strength? i.e. make the wood thick enough and you could get rid of the glass.

Are the any engineering formulas that can be used? e.g. X glass bonded to Y (wood/pvc) for Z distance = ?

Or to put it another way, which would add more strength to the existing structure by weight, additional glass, or a pvc layer?