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Forums > Windsurfing General

Catching a rail going into the gybe

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Created by sboardcrazy > 9 months ago, 26 Sep 2012
sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
27 Sep 2012 1:22AM
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My gybes in chop suck.. One problem I was having was grabbing a rail as I enter.. I try and choose a flatter section or a place where a wave has gone though but I then outrun it as I turn and end up in the chop mess anyway..

sick_em_rex
NSW, 1600 posts
27 Sep 2012 10:09AM
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and???? What are you asking????

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
27 Sep 2012 10:53AM
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Sorry- what causes the rail to dig in & is it avoidable? What could I be doing wrong?
5m sail -95ltre board 18 - 23kts Ne with c 2 1/2 ft chop..

FormulaNova
WA, 15090 posts
27 Sep 2012 8:55AM
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..it doesn't matter what the question was, but the answer should be to load up your weight on the rail more as you carve.

More commitment to the carve.

What was the question?

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
27 Sep 2012 11:09AM
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Bummer that's scary.It's been happening now I'm trying to commit more and let the sail pull me forward etc.. I'm obviously not getting it..Thats was how I smashed my front tooth last season so that's probably in the back of my mind and having me hang back a bit.
I was starting to get it in the flat water but now I'm trying the same thing in chop it's not happening.
So it shouldn't matter about the radius of the turn -just commit & carve? I'm trying to do longer radius turns to keep the speed up..
Would it be safer to do small radius turns in chop & just lose speed?

knigit
WA, 319 posts
27 Sep 2012 9:26AM
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BEND ZE KNEEZ!

and then bend them some more for gybing in chop.

Doing too small a radius and then stalling kind of defeats the purpose, stick with trying to keep your speed up.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
27 Sep 2012 11:56AM
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I'm finding I get a lot less gybes in in a sail where I sail in the chop. In flatwater I was doing shorter runs & got heaps of practise. I find falling in at each end exhausting & end up doing longer runs.I'll just have to get fitter & do shorter runs so I get more practise.
It was shallow where I was sailing in the flat and you could stop & adjust settings or get started without wasting energy. Deep water is so much more tiring.
I'll stick my bum out more as I enter & try & stay under boom height like Cribby says.. & try & bend ze knees more..I know I stand up when I switch feet which isn't good. I now wish I had practised the step gybe more over winter..I thought Id save practise till summer. Bad move.

knigit
WA, 319 posts
27 Sep 2012 10:06AM
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I dunno about the sticking the bum out more!
Are you making the change to kiting?

You want your weight over your feet, not hanging out the back coz you're bent over double. How will you balance?

MikeyS
VIC, 1509 posts
27 Sep 2012 2:36PM
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If you aim to gybe across and down the face of a wave you then get to surf down the wave to keep the speed up, with less pressure on the sail. So start your turn when you are close to the crest and (hopefully) carve down the face.

JoLee
QLD, 294 posts
27 Sep 2012 4:11PM
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MikeyS said...

If you aim to gybe across and down the face of a wave you then get to surf down the wave to keep the speed up, with less pressure on the sail. So start your turn when you are close to the crest and (hopefully) carve down the face.


Unless you're on slalom gear I find trying to keep the gybe a bit tighter after the chop/wave face carve helps b4 next chop slows the board down.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
27 Sep 2012 4:39PM
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knigit said...
I dunno about the sticking the bum out more!
Are you making the change to kiting?

You want your weight over your feet, not hanging out the back coz you're bent over double. How will you balance?


I think that tip is mainly to help beginner gybers crouch more..

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
27 Sep 2012 4:40PM
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MikeyS said...
If you aim to gybe across and down the face of a wave you then get to surf down the wave to keep the speed up, with less pressure on the sail. So start your turn when you are close to the crest and (hopefully) carve down the face.


My gybes are too wide to stay on one chop..they might be 30 - 50m diameter

MikeyS
VIC, 1509 posts
27 Sep 2012 6:35PM
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Hmm, that sounds like a very big arc. Sounds like you might not be committing to the carve hard enough. Get aggressive girl, and aim to come out of the gybe heading downwind a bit. So rather than trying to gybe through 180degrees, bear off downwind before the gybe, then drive though the gybe bending the knees and absorbing the bumps with your knees, then come out having turned through an arc of say 135. That way you execute tthe gybe quicker are out of the "unstable zone' quicker.

Now, can you teach me how to paint.

Te Hau
495 posts
27 Sep 2012 5:24PM
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It helps to have your front hand overhand grip on the boom as you go into the gybe, tends to make you pull down more on the boom and keeps the rail engaged.
Particularly good in rough water.

albers
NSW, 1739 posts
27 Sep 2012 7:33PM
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sboardcrazy said...

My gybes in chop suck..


Maybe use chop to your advantage by treating it as a ramp for your carve.

You can perform more "snappy-type" gybes with chop, so the gybe is a more faster/quicker move compared to a flat water gybe.

Key is being aggressive, good rail pressure and quick rig handling (assuming good entry speed).

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
27 Sep 2012 6:37PM
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sboardcrazy said...

Sorry- what causes the rail to dig in & is it avoidable? What could I be doing wrong?
5m sail -95ltre board 18 - 23kts Ne with c 2 1/2 ft chop..

Actually I think its a problem with your Tabou Rocket 95 being to big for you. I would be happy to take it off you hands as that's the perfect board for me! (have 'wanted' ad in Seabreeze buy & sell for a Rocket 95).

I really do want one but jokes aside, maybe not enough speed going into the turn to keep the board carving around on its new course along with insufficient commitment to the turn. Also think that it could be a confidence thing in guiding the board through and over the bumpy bits, gotta tell yourself u can do it! (just look at what
else you've achieved lately!). Also lower your centre of gravity by bending z knees, very important when carving in choppy water.

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
27 Sep 2012 6:44PM
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sboardcrazy said...

Sorry- what causes the rail to dig in & is it avoidable? What could I be doing wrong?
5m sail -95ltre board 18 - 23kts Ne with c 2 1/2 ft chop..

Actually I think its a problem with your Tabou Rocket 95 being too big for you. I would be happy to take it off you hands as that's the perfect board for me! (have 'wanted' ad in Seabreeze buy & sell for a good one).

I really do want one but jokes aside, maybe not enough speed going into the turn to keep the board carving around on its new course along with insufficient commitment to the turn. Also think that it could be a confidence thing in guiding the board through and over the bumpy bits, gotta tell yourself u can do it! (just look at what else you've achieved lately!). Also lower your centre of gravity by bending z knees, very important when turning in choppy water.

NotWal
QLD, 7435 posts
27 Sep 2012 11:41PM
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sboardcrazy said...

Bummer that's scary.It's been happening now I'm trying to commit more and let the sail pull me forward etc.. I'm obviously not getting it..Thats was how I smashed my front tooth last season so that's probably in the back of my mind and having me hang back a bit.
I was starting to get it in the flat water but now I'm trying the same thing in chop it's not happening.
So it shouldn't matter about the radius of the turn -just commit & carve? I'm trying to do longer radius turns to keep the speed up..
Would it be safer to do small radius turns in chop & just lose speed?

Chop makes it hard. Engaging/setting the rail is key to a smoothish run over the back of chop, with lots of knee bend. As you let the sail pull you forward you should be progressively over sheeting to depower (front arm straight tipping the rig forward, back arm sheeted in - the "bow and arrow" position) then when completely depowered you just surf through the next bit of the turn negotiating the bumps on the rail. Its still pretty bumpy but its manageable. You have to be going fast. If you feel the need to stay powered up to pull you through the turn you're not going fast enough to start with.

Going fast comfortably in bumps is key.

You can do small radius turns. If you lose speed you pretty much have to. Stalled gybes are mainstream practice. They are a necessary journeyman turn but they're not fun. Look up "Snap gybes" or "Pivot gybes" for fun tight turns.

TristanF
VIC, 230 posts
28 Sep 2012 12:52AM
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What helped me most in chop was focusing on my windward foot - its almost like standing up on your toes, which pushes the top of your foot into the strap and helps keep the inside rail really engaged through the turn while keeping weight forward. For me it's one of those small movements you can focus on that "unlocks" the move.

GazMan
WA, 847 posts
28 Sep 2012 1:05AM
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sboardcrazy said...

Sorry- what causes the rail to dig in & is it avoidable? What could I be doing wrong?
5m sail -95ltre board 18 - 23kts Ne with c 2 1/2 ft chop..

Actually, what about the 'mismatch' of 5 metre wavesail with a boom length of approx 163cm? (for 2012 Sailworks Revo 5.0 though unsure what year yours is) paired with a fast, flat rockered freeride board like the Rocket 95?

For the past 3 windsurf seasons I've pretty much sailed only a Fanatic Hawk 93 in all conditions (which is near identical in dimensions, speed and purpose to the Rocket 95) with mostly 5.3 & 5.9 freeride sails and occasionally with a 4.5 wave sail. These fast freeride boards handle and gybe very differently with wave sails than with a more powerful freeride sail. I would suspect that a 5.0 wave sail like the Revo would lack the power to really drive a board like the Hawk or Rocket into and through a turn in choppy water (gotta have the power on to keep the rail engaged, particularly when initiating the turn).

I think a 'pure' freeride sail like the Sailworks Retro or similar (read your other post) around that size would be better suited to the Rocket with the Revo better matched to an 85-93L FSW or wave board.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
28 Sep 2012 11:05AM
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sboardcrazy said...

MikeyS said...
If you aim to gybe across and down the face of a wave you then get to surf down the wave to keep the speed up, with less pressure on the sail. So start your turn when you are close to the crest and (hopefully) carve down the face.


My gybes are too wide to stay on one chop..they might be 30 - 50m diameter


Sorry probably 30 - 50 ft although some can be wider..

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
28 Sep 2012 11:07AM
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MikeyS said...

Hmm, that sounds like a very big arc. Sounds like you might not be committing to the carve hard enough. Get aggressive girl, and aim to come out of the gybe heading downwind a bit. So rather than trying to gybe through 180degrees, bear off downwind before the gybe, then drive though the gybe bending the knees and absorbing the bumps with your knees, then come out having turned through an arc of say 135. That way you execute tthe gybe quicker are out of the "unstable zone' quicker.

Now, can you teach me how to paint.


I wish I found gybing as easy as painting..,.2nd thoughts I'm not finding my current portrait of a great dane in a grass setting very easy either..

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
28 Sep 2012 11:08AM
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Te Hau said...

It helps to have your front hand overhand grip on the boom as you go into the gybe, tends to make you pull down more on the boom and keeps the rail engaged.
Particularly good in rough water.


Love the profile pic..Ill see what grip I have next time I enter..I think its overhamnd. i do need to pull down into the boom more..I got slack in flat water.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
28 Sep 2012 11:13AM
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GazMan said...

sboardcrazy said...

Sorry- what causes the rail to dig in & is it avoidable? What could I be doing wrong?
5m sail -95ltre board 18 - 23kts Ne with c 2 1/2 ft chop..

Actually I think its a problem with your Tabou Rocket 95 being to big for you. I would be happy to take it off you hands as that's the perfect board for me! (have 'wanted' ad in Seabreeze buy & sell for a Rocket 95).

I really do want one but jokes aside, maybe not enough speed going into the turn to keep the board carving around on its new course along with insufficient commitment to the turn. Also think that it could be a confidence thing in guiding the board through and over the bumpy bits, gotta tell yourself u can do it! (just look at what
else you've achieved lately!). Also lower your centre of gravity by bending z knees, very important when carving in choppy water.



I definitely need to do more dry land foot change practise..especially with the board on some sponge or something so I can tilt it..I find sometimes that I straighten out at the end or don't do an even carve.My foot pressure is dabby/uneven .Thats why I'm not game to try duck gybes again yet...
in a perfect world I'd love a 105 ltre rocket as well for my 12-18kt summer board..

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
28 Sep 2012 11:18AM
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TristanF said...

What helped me most in chop was focusing on my windward foot - its almost like standing up on your toes, which pushes the top of your foot into the strap and helps keep the inside rail really engaged through the turn while keeping weight forward. For me it's one of those small movements you can focus on that "unlocks" the move.


Back in the 90's I used to initate the turns by lifting with the windward front foot rather than weighting the rear on the rail..I was wondering about trying that.I'm wondering if maybe I am just stomping too quickly on the rail rather than a gradual weighting.. I have been sailing the 125ltre board for a couple of times before this sail and it needs more rail pressure to gybe..I need to adjust for the 95 that gybes easier..Does that sound like it could be a factor?

iwindsurf
VIC, 44 posts
28 Sep 2012 12:00PM
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Commit, bend z knees, look where you are going. I bet when you do prefect gybes on flat water you dont look at the water below you or the sail or feet? Let your knees aborsb the chop, release the sail earlier than what you think and commint to looking at where you want to go.
When learning use a wave fin or something with a bit of a curve makes it all the more forgiving.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
28 Sep 2012 1:16PM
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iwindsurf said...

Commit, bend z knees, look where you are going. I bet when you do prefect gybes on flat water you dont look at the water below you or the sail or feet? Let your knees aborsb the chop, release the sail earlier than what you think and commint to looking at where you want to go.
When learning use a wave fin or something with a bit of a curve makes it all the more forgiving.


Yep..I noticed that when I was having a postmortem I'd realise I wasnt looking out but worrying about my boom/hands etc.. trying to get enthused about going out the 20-30kts that is blowing at the moment knowing I'm sleep deprived & going to crash heaps .. & it will be choppy..

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
28 Sep 2012 7:25PM
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Well I got out ..gusty 5 -20+kts with 125 + 6.6m. A bit more success but no brilliant ones..I wasn't as powered up going into the gybes as the wind waqs gusty.
Verdict - The main problems areI leave the foot change too late..weight goes onto the toes at times after the footchange + look at my hands as I gybe..
I've been sailing small boards in strong winds the last few months and with those I change my feet after I flip ( works well if really powered up). Now I have to change before a lot and ..Oh well later this weekend I'll practise the rig flip & footchange on land until I don't have to think..
The chop wasn't as bad today as I saled at Budgewoi - Coal Pt gets some nasty chop..
Had a few exhilarating scary runs with over 20kts & the 6.6m...

jsnfok
WA, 899 posts
29 Sep 2012 7:50AM
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you need to do one or the other

-gybe rig flip THEN foot change

-gybe foot change THEN rig flip

not at the same time

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8292 posts
29 Sep 2012 1:01PM
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jsnfok said...

you need to do one or the other

-gybe rig flip THEN foot change

-gybe foot change THEN rig flip

not at the same time


Yep thats what I do . Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Its just that I've been lazy & was getting away with gybe, rig flip, then foot change and planing out with the little boards.That only works when you are really powered up and on my smaller boards..Mind you I did do one on my big board yesterday & survived ( no planing out) but I was scarily powered up entering.
If the wind isn't strong enough to be doing warp speed entries or dies half way through the gybe I need to have done the step before the flip to be in a good position to survive.I also need that on the big board.
That's going to have to be the goal for this summer.. learn it properly so I can use it on all the boards..

RumChaser
TAS, 629 posts
29 Sep 2012 2:29PM
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I always go a little downwind at the start of the gybe just as if I am going for a speed run. The board settles, the sail doesn't pull as hard and I get a couple of seconds to get set. If you have had some bad crashes, you are not pulling back on the boom are you? You have to keep the weight forward on your toes. From a previous comment, don't just stomp on the rail, you have to feel the turn and ride the bumps. It is a zen thing.



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"Catching a rail going into the gybe" started by sboardcrazy