Goodmorning to everyboby. I need, please, some advice in the volume of a new wave board. I am w/surfing from my 18's and now I am in the age of 50 and now my weight is 94kg @ 1,95tall. The previous small wave board I had was a "poison" 83lt. I can say that its volume was little for my weight. Planning conditions took place at about 26-28 knots. I have already decide for the Brand and the model to buy, but not for the volume. My choice is a Witchcraft Shaman in HDD version. My difficulty is whether to choose the 92lt or the 96lt model.

all things being equal I doubt you could tell the difference on the water as there is only 15mm extra width and 20cm extra length.
so unless there is something different in rocker id say it's going to be very difficult to tell.

from my own experience of testing boards where the only difference was width I really couldn't tell much difference until the width increased beyond an inch.

that said. get the bigger one as it has more volume.

as a side note. how do they test so many sizes of boards. I find that a bit suss.

^^^ Agreed
That is no real volume difference.

Are you still going to use it in 26-28kn range ....... or were u saying the old board was no good as it didn't plane until 26-28kn?

Most modern boards enable you to carry a bit more volume without becoming too bouncy etc .... so it would be nice to know about the Poison - I'm not familiar with it and google isn't helping?

I'd say go for the bigger of the two boards here.

If there's one thing that has changed in the past few years it's that we can use floatier boards now. That is down to better shapes and shorter hulls, but mostly because the single fin has been replaced by tri-fin or quad fin set-ups and they don't lift the tail so much when the board is overpowered.

In the old days we often used to sail 'sinker' boards to keep control in strong winds but there is no need to go to negative volume nowadays.
Indeed, for lighter wind days, many wave sailors will go to 10litres extra volume over their body weight in kilos.
My light wind wave board is 95 litres - which is +20 litres over my 75kilos body weight.
My all-round waveboard is 85 litres, so that's still +10.
For sure, I also have 80 litre boards for windy weather, but the bigger ones still work too if used with short fins.

The other thing that affects 'float' with modern gear is the volume distribution, as traditional narrow-tail waveboards can feel sinkier than, say, wide-tailed stubbies.
You local sailing conditions also have a say in how much volume you need, as extra float is useful in gusty winds or for getting through white water and currents. I use big boards a lot for onshore wind and trashy white water conditions.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
^^^ Agreed
That is no real volume difference.

Are you still going to use it in 26-28kn range ....... or were u saying the old board was no good as it didn't plane until 26-28kn?

Most modern boards enable you to carry a bit more volume without becoming too bouncy etc .... so it would be nice to know about the Poison - I'm not familiar with it and google isn't helping?

poison 2007 model new @ 250*55,5 wide.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
^^^ Agreed
That is no real volume difference.

Are you still going to use it in 26-28kn range ....... or were u saying the old board was no good as it didn't plane until 26-28kn?

Most modern boards enable you to carry a bit more volume without becoming too bouncy etc .... so it would be nice to know about the Poison - I'm not familiar with it and google isn't helping?

The old board will be replaced with a new one.

Are you still going to use it in 26-28kn range ....... or were u saying the old board was no good as it didn't plane until 26-28kn?

Select to expand quote

Gestalt said..
all things being equal I doubt you could tell the difference on the water as there is only 15mm extra width and 20cm extra length.
so unless there is something different in rocker id say it's going to be very difficult to tell.

from my own experience of testing boards where the only difference was width I really couldn't tell much difference until the width increased beyond an inch.

that said. get the bigger one as it has more volume.

as a side note. how do they test so many sizes of boards. I find that a bit suss.

I guess you are right.

In wave boards, a 15mm width difference can be quite a lot, and is a normal width step from say an 80 litre board to an 85 or 87 litre board in the same range.
If the smaller size is marginal volume for the sailor body weight then that 15mm step up can make all the difference, even where the boards are a similar shape.

Given the facts available, sail size would help some, your weight is significantly above mine.
the 96 liter. brilliant choice on the board. You might be able to sweet talk Bouke into a 94 liter, by trimming gently a 96.

FWIW my Chakra 88, I can used from 4.2 to 5.9. I'm 70kg, without cookies or pie.
also the standard version is pretty tough, but the HDD, May present a better values, esp resale.

Lots of chat about volume ... But what is the outline of these boards which is the most important factor of displacement.

Stubby vs pinny vs regular?
Flat deck and wide outline ...or ... Domed deck and thin outline?

There's about 10-15L difference in feel between these different designs for boards of the same volume.

Select to expand quote

JakeNN said..
Lots of chat about volume ... But what is the outline of these boards which is the most important factor of displacement.

Stubby vs pinny vs regular?
Flat deck and wide outline ...or ... Domed deck and thin outline?

There's about 10-15L difference in feel between these different designs for boards of the same volume.

If you read the opening post, then it's not about board design or board sizing - which would be interesting - because the discussion is actually about a choice between two Witchcraft boards of the same shape but different volume.
I'll just leave that there, whilst agreeing with you.

Select to expand quote

Basher said..
In wave boards, a 15mm width difference can be quite a lot, and is a normal width step from say an 80 litre board to an 85 or 87 litre board in the same range.
If the smaller size is marginal volume for the sailor body weight then that 15mm step up can make all the difference, even where the boards are a similar shape.

so you are suggesting that adding 7mm of width to each rail is noticible.

do you have a ruler in front of you?

Select to expand quote

Basher said..
because the discussion is actually about a choice between two Witchcraft boards of the same shape but different volume.
I'll just leave that there, whilst agreeing with you.

Just a bit hard to assess the right board for his weight even if the same model, without still considering the board displacement and outline.

Select to expand quote

Gestalt said..
so you are suggesting that adding 7mm of width to each rail is noticible.

Yes .. hugely noticeable. That's 15mm board width difference which is significant.

Select to expand quote

JakeNN said..

Gestalt said..
so you are suggesting that adding 7mm of width to each rail is noticible.

Yes .. hugely noticeable. That's 15mm board width difference which is significant.

have you ever sailed a board where the only difference was 15mm in width.

which coincidentally is nowhere near your sailing position.

When choosing a waveboard size, we often look at volume increments, but the dimensions are also revealing, and width steps of 10mm to 15mm are very common.
Here are the specs for the Severne Nano, for example.
It was a big decision for me to go for the Nano 82, rather than the Nano 87, even though the difference in width was just 15mm.

Select to expand quote

Basher said..
When choosing a waveboard size, we often look at volume increments, but the dimensions are also revealing, and width steps of 10mm to 15mm are very common.
Here are the specs for the Severne Nano, for example.
It was a big decision for me to go for the Nano 82, rather than the Nano 87, even though the difference in width was just 15mm.

I haven't ridden the nano but the designer uses the forum maybe he can comment.

but again, have you used boards where everything was the same accept 15mm of width and done real comparisons. if you have and think it does than fair enough.

I see what Gestalt is getting at.

But I think much of this is irrelevant to the choice. OK he wants to pick between 2 identical boards with 4L difference. That's getting really fussy but I don't envy the guy, its a hard pick.

Whether that 4L is mostly width or mostly thickness is not so important unless you're getting to really big waveboards where width can kill planing ability.
In a 95L ish I doubt whether Bourke used 2mm thicker and wider, or 3mm thicker but not so much width increase, will be actually be felt.

The wind range on both will be essentially the same, with a minor difference noted if on your biggest sail and the smaller board. Likewise another minor difference at the other end of things - if you were on your smallest sail and had the bigger board.

So whilst we do use a lot more volume nowadays, and also its gotta be better than whatever that Poison thing is (looks very old school) - I'd say pick it based on conditions.

(1) lets say you use 4.5, 5 and 5.3 for 70% of sailing. Then your 5.7 for 20% and your 4m for only 10% - get bigger board.
If you reverse those numbers for the 4 and 5.7 (so whilst most of the time is on middle sizes it does get farken windy) maybe the smaller board.

(2) waves. If is mostly onshore, bigger. If your spot is DTL and often just perfection for riding, smaller.
Is there a channel, or hard to get out through closeouts for the whole beach? Smaller and bigger respectively.

Splitting hairs but he did ask

If u still cant decide, just go bigger ............. and if you really need to tame it down use smaller fins on the strong days (I suggest that's better than trying to use the smaller one with bigger fins and pumping on the marginal days)

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
I see what Gestalt is getting at.

But I think much of this is irrelevant to the choice. OK he wants to pick between 2 identical boards with 4L difference. That's getting really fussy but I don't envy the guy, its a hard pick.

Whether that 4L is mostly width or mostly thickness is not so important unless you're getting to really big waveboards where width can kill planing ability.
In a 95L ish I doubt whether Bourke used 2mm thicker and wider, or 3mm thicker but not so much width increase, will be actually be felt.

The wind range on both will be essentially the same, with a minor difference noted if on your biggest sail and the smaller board. Likewise another minor difference at the other end of things - if you were on your smallest sail and had the bigger board.

So whilst we do use a lot more volume nowadays, and also its gotta be better than whatever that Poison thing is (looks very old school) - I'd say pick it based on conditions.

(1) lets say you use 4.5, 5 and 5.3 for 70% of sailing. Then your 5.7 for 20% and your 4m for only 10% - get bigger board.
If you reverse those numbers for the 4 and 5.7 (so whilst most of the time is on middle sizes it does get farken windy) maybe the smaller board.

(2) waves. If is mostly onshore, bigger. If your spot is DTL and often just perfection for riding, smaller.
Is there a channel, or hard to get out through closeouts for the whole beach? Smaller and bigger respectively.

Splitting hairs but he did ask

If u still cant decide, just go bigger ............. and if you really need to tame it down use smaller fins on the strong days (I suggest that's better than trying to use the smaller one with bigger fins and pumping on the marginal days)

My wave sail range consists of 4,2, 4,7, and 5,2 ezzy zeta. Most of the times, I sail with 4,7 and 5,2 at almost 50% of each sail The conditions are choppy small waves and wind between 25-30 knots. I do understand that "poison" is an old school board and nowadays design is significantly different.

we should also consider thats 4lt and 15mm on paper.

what construction tollerances are at play.

there is every chance those 2 boards could end up close in spec once built.

My answer is still the same as it was in my original post at the top of this page - namely that we don't generally need to sail 'sinker' boards nowadays, and that you can have much more fun on a wave board that has positive volume in litres for your weight in kilos.

So for a 94kgs sailor with a choice between 92 litres and 96 litres the obvious answer is to go for the 96 litres board - or something even bigger.



On the discussion about width and volume increments: it's often worth going into a windsurf shop and seeing two sizes of the same model in the flesh. When you put them side by side, the 4litres volume difference and 15mm width difference become very obvious. It's a scaling up thing, like when we buy clothes. If you lay a medium T shirt on top of a large size then the difference doesn't seem a lot. But when wearing them, one's too tight whereas the other is a good fit.

Choosing a new wave board is about getting a good fit. You might want a board that is simply the right step down from your slalom gear, to give control in 5m sail conditions. However if you're a typical wave sailor then you might be looking for the one size board that covers you from 5.2 sails down to 4m rigs. The modern answer is to get something that is +5 litres over your weight in kilos.

Thanks, to all of you for your comments. They were very helpful to me so as to understand some basic concepts. Since my experience in boards modern design is minor, I will choose the 96lt board considering that 70% of w/surfing time spent is on 4,7 and 5,2 ezzy zetas.

Select to expand quote

Nikolaos said..
Thanks, to all of you for your comments. They were very helpful to me so as to understand some basic concepts. Since my experience in boards modern design is minor, I will choose the 96lt board considering that 70% of w/surfing time spent is on 4,7 and 5,2 ezzy zetas.

good choice.

Select to expand quote

Nikolaos said..
Thanks, to all of you for your comments. They were very helpful to me so as to understand some basic concepts. Since my experience in boards modern design is minor, I will go for the 96lt board considering that 70% of w/surfing time spent is on 4,7 and 5,2 ezzy zetas.