I have seen a few threads talking about the buy local and support Australian business versus buying from overseas retailers and the conundrum customers have in whether to save money or support local business. I think the generally poor state of the websites is also contributing to money going overseas.
When I am "shopping" I'm more interested in finding and comparing items easily. I have spent "A LOT" of time looking at windsurfing websites over the last 6 months and I can confidently say that the Australian sites are universally poor. Some are better than others, but by and large, it takes a concerted concentrated effort to get the information I require to make informed purchasing decisions.
I might be somewhat more critical than average as I work in the I.T industry but I have come across so many examples of just downright poor and / or lazy website design to the extent that if your website stands out as especially annoying, regardless of your pricing, I will refuse to buy from you because you have wasted my time.
The sites are generally good if you know exactly what you want and / or the brand you want; meaning they seem to be catering to the expert sailor who shops by brand and has inherent knowledge. An example of a fairly good ( not aussie) website would be www.the-house.com/ - this site allows you to search from a single brand or all brands if you want. It's best feature is the sorting options - so If I am looking for a particular sized sail I can sort within a size range and ALL brands are listed.
What would be good would be a compare option that would let you select three or 4 sails and then compare their vital statistics - by this I mean, luff and boom size, mast requirements etc.
What would be better would be a tick box system that lets you select criteria and then have the site display items that match.
I understand Australia doesn't have the market size of Europe or US to justify spending gazzillions on your website, but there is really no excuse for poor design or just downright lazy sites that haven't updated items for over six months and where half the site leads to dead end links that don't work anymore.
I follow the steps below
1 walk into shop
2 get given coffee
3 talk to person in shop about forecast. Tell them you need kit.
4 unroll sail/take board off rack
5 say "hmm, not sure about price/condition "
6 offer to buy lots more stuff
7 get discount
No nerds were employed in the making of this process...
Disclaimer: I also work in IT
PS that site is terrible. The same 4.7 m sail has two different prices based on the colour...
Select to expand quoteginger pom said..
PS that site is terrible. The same 4.7 m sail has two different prices based on the colour...
....not sure how that relates to the website design per se in relation to how it compares to aussie sites in general. Maybe they have lots of one colour they want to get rid of?
In any case I was just using it as an example of good design decisions that help the consumers that don't have the opportunity of being served cappucinos while they browse 
slight problem... the site you mention has a very limited range and most of the products seem to be from several seasons ago. I'd even go as far as guessing that they are in the business of buying up old stock and flogging it at ultra discounted prices. I am guessing they are selling everything from a warehouse without an actual physical store.
There are a number of European companies that sell windsurf gear direct via the Internet. It works there because the market is big enough. Here in Australia you have a handful of shops in the major cities serving a very small customer base. Generally the shops will order in what they think they can shift throughout the season. They do this so they don't end up sitting on thousands of dollars worth of gear that no one wants.
BTW orders are usually placed around July / August. If you look in the shops now you should be able to pick up 2013 gear for around 30 off RRP.
Select to expand quotegregob said..ginger pom said..
PS that site is terrible. The same 4.7 m sail has two different prices based on the colour...
....not sure how that relates to the website design per se in relation to how it compares to aussie sites in general. Maybe they have lots of one colour they want to get rid of?
In any case I was just using it as an example of good design decisions that help the consumers that don't have the opportunity of being served cappucinos while they browse
yes that's right because people will pay an extra $131 for a different colour.... it also has the 2012 product picture and the 2013 description including text "2013 updates" on the page... which is misadvertising and technically illegal.
so yes, the site is terrible... the content is poor and misleading. I suggest that you phone a retailer and get some advice before having the kit (from the right year) shipped to you.
And cappucinos are for girls...
Select to expand quoteginger pom said..
I follow the steps below
1 walk into shop
2 get given coffee
3 talk to person in shop about forecast. Tell them you need kit.
4 unroll sail/take board off rack
5 say "hmm, not sure about price/condition "
6 offer to buy lots more stuff
7 get discount
No nerds were employed in the making of this process...
Disclaimer: I also work in IT
Gregbob lives around 500kms from the nearest shop so that is long walk.
Australia is a big country and most windsurfing shops are in the cities. This is both a curse and an opportunity.
i would tend to agree with greg.
i am not going to name them but there are sites that are a lot more comprehensive and list all prices and others that really have nothing.
i have bought stuff repetitively from one site because of this and for no other reason. a lot of other sites i've found a bit useless.
its smart business these days to have a decent site. especially in a big country with limited outlets.
There's nothing like walking into a shop and playing with all the toys, Done it since I was 5 and its not likely to change. I agree that the sites in OZ are a little weak but they serve the purpose, Most stuff of it is clearence stock anyway...Good for a bargin. How I do it is pick up the phone dial Scotty and say "Have you got one of these instock" then go from there. He'll either have it or order it for me, it'll be delivered in person or by post or via the next mate heading for the coast. With great service like that why would I want to shop on-line....Saying that it still has it's place and the on-line stores could be better, Then again if IT support wasn't so expensive they'd probably keep up with things....
I'm with Gregob. I live a gazillion miles from the nearest shop. I rarely have time during business hours to call up for a chat so I rely heavily on online and email shopping and advice. I have mail ordered gear from most shops in Oz over the years. The web sites are generally very ordinary and email support is not much better. There is one shop I have pumped a heap of cash through, the guys are so lovely and helpful - if you call or can make it to the shop. I love these guys, but trying to extract after market advice by email has been like pulling teeth. Unfortunately I have received much better support from overseas 
Greg I dunno if comparisons are useful for a niche sport.
The retailers I frequent stock say 3 board brands and 2 sail brands. It is not like a bike shop where they have maybe 10 brands of mountain bikes, or Hrvey Norman with 35 brands of DVD players.
Plus being something that people are "into" we windsurfers tend to know what we want. If I am after a 4.7m wavesail there is no way I want to look at the luff and boom for 10 different sails - I know I want a 2013 Combat Wave. If I have a middle bend curve mast and want a cheap sail I know that Ezzy, Severne, Simmer, etc etc will all rig on my middle of the road mast so will just look at the secondhand sails list on a few websites.
I don't want to "compare" length and width on waveboards - will read reviews and pick ONE based on looseness, early planing whatever my preferred criteria is. And you acnnot trust a shop to reort fairly on that! They will ALL be the earliest planing loosest boards (same as the manudfacturers claim amazing improvements in both every year)
But I do agree with you that for the most part the websites are crap. Many just list all the brands they sell and a contact number. Quite often I am looking for a specific size 1 or 2 y/o board and get no results for the whole of Australia.
Or, in new stuff they don't list prices. Out of 20 odd retailers there are about 3 or 4 good websites. Try and buy a tendon or a footstrap online - you have a choice of Surf Sail Australia or eBay stores. What are the rest of them doing????
Select to expand quoteginger pom said..gregob said..ginger pom said..
PS that site is terrible. The same 4.7 m sail has two different prices based on the colour...
....not sure how that relates to the website design per se in relation to how it compares to aussie sites in general. Maybe they have lots of one colour they want to get rid of?
In any case I was just using it as an example of good design decisions that help the consumers that don't have the opportunity of being served cappucinos while they browse
yes that's right because people will pay an extra $131 for a different colour.... it also has the 2012 product picture and the 2013 description including text "2013 updates" on the page... which is misadvertising and technically illegal.
so yes, the site is terrible... the content is poor and misleading. I suggest that you phone a retailer and get some advice before having the kit (from the right year) shipped to you.
And cappucinos are for girls...
Umm, the idea with the pricing might be to encourage people to pay less for a different colour Ginger. If they have 50 pink ones and 2 blue ones what is one way to sell more pink ones do you think.......?
For all i know they just have mistakes on their pricing. That's not the point; I was using it as an example of how some simple design choices can make the customer experience easier and better. I could just as easily picked any number of other sites I just happened to have it come up when was looking for sails and getting frustrated at using menu systems that channeled me into a page with one sail on it, from one maker, with no price! Another site gave me all the pictures on the current Neil pryde sails, and that was it - pretty pictures - bottom of page said - "last updated nov 2012". And that's just two sites.
If you prefer, or have option to, walk into a shop, and drink flat whites I take it, then that's great. I shop for a lot things online , as do millions of other people, and the majority of Aussie gear sites are far worse than the example I provided design wise. The aussie sites may very well have accurate pricing on everything but that doesn't really help them if people can't be bothered battling with their site.
I want to spend my money in Australia but i find it frustrating that it is such a struggle to find stuff and navigate local sites. Having a helpful, well designed website that caters to different types of customer will help any business.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Greg I dunno if comparisons are useful for a niche sport.
The retailers I frequent stock say 3 board brands and 2 sail brands. It is not like a bike shop where they have maybe 10 brands of mountain bikes, or Hrvey Norman with 35 brands of DVD players.
Plus being something that people are "into" we windsurfers tend to know what we want. If I am after a 4.7m wavesail there is no way I want to look at the luff and boom for 10 different sails - I know I want a 2013 Combat Wave. If I have a middle bend curve mast and want a cheap sail I know that Ezzy, Severne, Simmer, etc etc will all rig on my middle of the road mast so will just look at the secondhand sails list on a few websites.
I don't want to "compare" length and width on waveboards - will read reviews and pick ONE based on looseness, early planing whatever my preferred criteria is. And you acnnot trust a shop to reort fairly on that! They will ALL be the earliest planing loosest boards (same as the manudfacturers claim amazing improvements in both every year)
But I do agree with you that for the most part the websites are crap. Many just list all the brands they sell and a contact number. Quite often I am looking for a specific size 1 or 2 y/o board and get no results for the whole of Australia.
Or, in new stuff they don't list prices. Out of 20 odd retailers there are about 3 or 4 good websites. Try and buy a tendon or a footstrap online - you have a choice of Surf Sail Australia or eBay stores. What are the rest of them doing????
A lot of customers would know what they want / need and maybe that is where they get 90% of their business from and maybe the website is just an after thought for a lot of retailers as most of their business is coming from walk in buyers. But, there a lot of very successful online retailers and the ones that do it well have search criteria that help people find what they want.
Like the old close encounters line - "build it and they will come" .
^^^ I disagree Greg.
Nobody in a niche sport will believe one of the 10 major store in Oz telling them what they want.
They will seek and believe advice from Windsurf and Boards magazines, and ask here. Then go looking for it online to buy.
Yes the masses will read advice about what mountain bike, or what set of golf clubs suits a beginner, on the retailers websites, but I don't think Windsurfing Perth or Windsurf n Snow are going to make more $$$ by having a compare button or a lot of advice material (effort vs return)
But they will make a lot of $$ if I can do a two click buy-it-now for a mast base, tendon, 1m downhaul rope, a harness etc...... and that is what I think it missing from 90% of them in Oz
I can find online prices from 20+ sources for a West suits 3x2 wetty ....... but very unlikely to find more than one or two for a Dakine waist harness, or a fin.
They need to think about that.
Hate to point out the obvious here but Nobody invests in Aussie websites because they are at a commercial disadvantage compared to the overseas guys. So who is going to make it easier for customers to find out they are more expensive, doesn't make sense.
it's the same even with big chains like DJ's, they just invest in the big overseas based websites as they have the competitive advantage.
I tend to agree with mark that WS websites should be just a shopping list of options that can be ordered easily on line.
However there are too many variables in windsurfing equipment / needs to make a website slection engine effective. eg. your level of sailing, style of sailing, equipment availability, matching to gear that you already have, planing the quiver etc. This is a consultative processed best gleened from a discussion with someone knowlegeable and research.
If your not near a store i would etsblish a relationship with a shop you can trust and spend some time on the phone with them, work out what you need, do some research and then haggle the best price.
You need to keep in mind that mainting a website is still a cost and its time consuming. Most windsurfing stores probably aren't flush with cash these days.
Select to expand quotegregob said..
I have seen a few threads talking about the buy local and support Australian business versus buying from overseas retailers and the conundrum customers have in whether to save money or support local business. I think the generally poor state of the websites is also contributing to money going overseas.
When I am "shopping" I'm more interested in finding and comparing items easily.
Greg,
Question #1
are you basing your decision/research while 'shopping' on price only...
IE You find and compare different sites to determine/locate the lowest possible price/best possible deal and then buy from that provider ?
If this is the case, price point is always going to be determined by the bigger provider (who has the ability to discount further than others based on sheer volume buying power)
Price Point buying alone places no value on the service side of a retail operation
Question #2
How much will you charge me to build and then maintain a web site for my company that will keep customers coming back through the electronic turnstiles and parting with their coin ?
Select to expand quoteWindWarrior said...gregob said..
I have seen a few threads talking about the buy local and support Australian business versus buying from overseas retailers and the conundrum customers have in whether to save money or support local business. I think the generally poor state of the websites is also contributing to money going overseas.
When I am "shopping" I'm more interested in finding and comparing items easily.
Greg,
Question #1
are you basing your decision/research while 'shopping' on price only...
IE You find and compare different sites to determine/locate the lowest possible price/best possible deal and then buy from that provider ?
If this is the case, price point is always going to be determined by the bigger provider (who has the ability to discount further than others based on sheer volume buying power)
Price Point buying alone places no value on the service side of a retail operation
Question #2
How much will you charge me to build and then maintain a web site for my company that will keep customers coming back through the electronic turnstiles and parting with their coin ?
1) i am looking at price but the cause of most recent frustration is simply finding both the type of sail and its dimensions.
2) i dont build websites . But as a consumer i know what annoys me when i am trying find info on a product and i know i prefer being able to search via criteria that is important to my purchasing decision.
Is this site something like what you're looking for to compare equipment www.surfadviser.com I think it's Justyna's site.
Select to expand quotegregob said..
It doesn't cost anymore to design your site well
Yup, that's why I don't generally provide design services to small businesses. They don't tend to see the value let alone understand the cost that goes into good usability.Select to expand quote
Why do think sites like Amazon and Seabreeze are so successful? I would say largely due to good site design.
Amazon spends an insane amount of money on usability. To compare that with a specialist retailer that stocks a relatively small amount of products makes no sense.
Amazon works because they have a well thought out logistics system that enables them to sell items they only make a few dollars on. They make up for it by the sheer volume of products they sell.
In the case of a windsurf store to get all products and stock levels online you would have to firstly introduce a fully electronic stock system that captures the last bolt and fin plate. This costs money and takes a lot of time to create and maintain.
Once you have done that creating an online shop with products such as shopify.com is cheap and easy. But what would be your projected sales? $20k per year? $40k per year? How much would it cost to hire someone to process the orders. Maintain the shop. Field questions. Deal with returns? $50k+
You see having a slick web site is one thing. Having the processes in place to successfully run it is another. I am sorry to say but the numbers here in Australia just don't stack up for that. Not for windsurfing.
If you're going to have a website - either make it simply a point of contact if not able to regularly update it - or keep it updated, simple. As for Seabreeze - we members keep it updated with our posts & buy'n'sell ads, so not sure if it can be compared to a retail website where there is only 1 person able to alter it (I recognise that Laurie does a lot behind the scenes, but it's not him that puts the info here that keeps me visiting daily...many times over!).
If I'm looking at buying something online and the website's not current (ie; looked on one last week that hadn't been updated since 2006!), then you won't get my business - simple.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..gregob said..
It doesn't cost anymore to design your site well
Yup, that's why I don't generally provide design services to small businesses. They don't tend to see the value let alone understand the cost that goes into good usability.
Why do think sites like Amazon and Seabreeze are so successful? I would say largely due to good site design.
Amazon spends an insane amount of money on usability. To compare that with a specialist retailer that stocks a relatively small amount of products makes no sense.
Amazon works because they have a well thought out logistics system that enables them to sell items they only make a few dollars on. They make up for it by the sheer volume of products they sell.
In the case of a windsurf store to get all products and stock levels online you would have to firstly introduce a fully electronic stock system that captures the last bolt and fin plate. This costs money and takes a lot of time to create and maintain.
Once you have done that creating an online shop with products such as shopify.com is cheap and easy. But what would be your projected sales? $20k per year? $40k per year? How much would it cost to hire someone to process the orders. Maintain the shop. Field questions. Deal with returns? $50k+
You see having a slick web site is one thing. Having the processes in place to successfully run it is another. I am sorry to say but the numbers here in Australia just don't stack up for that. Not for windsurfing.
I fully appreciate the differences in scale and empathise with the shared struggle of dealing with clients that lack the insight to see what is best for them. OMG.
I have no idea what making websites cost. I don't think you don't need a fully integrated logistics / inventory management system to make your website more friendly though. I'm sure if a potential customer of yours said I want to make it easy for people to search for items then you could show them some options on how the page flow would work. Probably you just get asked to make a flash looking page and they don't care about functionality. They get what they ask for I suppose.
I don't expect Amazon-esq slickness - just common sense. An example that annoys me is how so many sites show horn the user into Product--> Sail ----> Brand---> menu system like a windows start button. This puts me on a page with one sail - If i want to compare sails, even within a brand I have to open multiple pages. Dumb. Must be the default interface style of the popular site building development tools.
I am sure the seabreeze site does not have an Amazon site budget but the site is designed with the purpose of helping people quickly find what they are after. Their business model is slightly different in that (i am assuming) they rely on click through ad traffic?
Maybe my expectations are unrealistic. It would be interesting to see, though I don't know how you could find out, which sites do the most online sales and compare their design. Were I a retailer I would certainly be interested in maximising the return on my web site investment. Sometimes even simple things can make a big difference.
Select to expand quoteHF said..
Is this site something like what you're looking for to compare equipment www.surfadviser.com I think it's Justyna's site.
O M G - that site is brilliant!!! 
I guess then fundamentally what you are after are two things:
1) you want online pre-sale advice
2) you want to find the cheapest price
In regards to #1 I don't know about Australia but I know in the German market the majority of people base their purchase decision on magazine tests. If your product tests poorly in a mag test the only way you will shift it is by serious price reductions.
I believe here in Australia a lot of people base their purchase decision on what products they have tested, what the local shop currently pushes and what they read on Seabreeze.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..
I guess then fundamentally what you are after are two things:
1) you want online pre-sale advice
2) you want to find the cheapest price
In regards to #1 I don't know about Australia but I know in the German market the majority of people base their purchase decision on magazine tests. If your product tests poorly in a mag test the only way you will shift it is by serious price reductions.
I believe here in Australia a lot of people base their purchase decision on what products they have tested, what the local shop currently pushes and what they read on Seabreeze.
its hard to base your board info off those magazines, they never say anything really, just all positive, i agree with mark and sailshack, plus once youve been windsurfing 5yrs or so, its not magazines or shops that influence my decision about gear, but more the local gunns or when i go to sandy etc and just seeing what gear the better guys are using, the best thing about shops is they usually give credit and allow you to pay stuff off, if they didnt to that, most my purchasing would be on seabreeze, some of the websites ive been too,, i click on the board to see how much and what sizes they have and up comes the starboard home pg etc, thats piss poor, but it would be good to buy the little things on line, rope, straps etc,
websites dont let you touch and feel the product, i like to touch and feel the product, alot, yes i do
Select to expand quotejsnfok said...
websites dont let you touch and feel the product, i like to touch and feel the product, alot, yes i do
Exactly, this is why no one uses the internet for porn.
Select to expand quoteBalsdeepI said..
jsnfok said...
websites dont let you touch and feel the product, i like to touch and feel the product, alot, yes i do
Exactly, this is why no one uses the internet for porn.
.......I take the 5th
