So it looks like my first day on the water by myself not be a good idea. Tomorrow in Melbourne is forecast to be getting upward of 25kn and I only have one board and one sail (145L, 5.3m). At my 65Kg weight, trying to use a 5.3m sail in 25kn conditions is going to be futile, right? I've only been out in <10kn conditions so far. I used some online sail size calculator and it suggested I should be using a tiny 3.2m sail... that does seem a bit off though.
As much as I'm dying to get out and play, do you think it would be silly to go out in these conditions with the equipment I have, or just do it anyway in a safe location and see what happens? Plenty of downhaul tension on the sail. I've never used the footstraps, nor a harness, though I do have these and fitted them last night in case I want to try them, which in 25kn winds I might have to.
I'd be going to Altona Beach where there should be sideshore winds, so easy to just go back and forth without being pushed out to sea.
Reckon when I buy my second sail it will have to be something more like a 4m for strong wind conditions.
I'm 64kgs and use a 3.8m in over 25kts ( wavesail) and 3.2m in over 30 kts and thats generally survival sailing. I'm an intermediate.I don't imagine you'd enjoy it and you might hurt yourself but as you aren't in a harness at least you'll fall away from the board ( or I imagine you would)..You can try but if it's consistent 25kts + it will be very demanding and survival stuff.
This link might help you calculate what board/fin/sail size to use.
jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-windsurf-calculator-online.html
Yeah ok, so I'd be way overpowered and just end up either hurting myself, or finishing up extremely frustrated. Maybe I'll just go out and buy a smaller sail anyway, then I've got it.
First thing to remember is that forecasts are not often spot on, it may be lighter (or stronger) than that.
I'd find somewhere that is slightly cross-on so you get blown back to land and go down and take a look.
What you should also remember is back when windsurfing started there was basically one board and one sail. They went out in everything from zero to 30 knots plus on the same gear. Of course it got very ugly when the wind was strong. However what I'm trying to get at is if you can find a place that is safe, ie the wind won't blow you out to Tasmania or into some big rocks and the tide won't wash you out to sea, then give it a go.
The worst that can happen is probably a long walk back to your car, the walk of shame. The benefit will be more time on the water and experiencing some powered up or overpowered sailing.
Modern sails can be rigged to sail in a huge wind range. Ideally you would want a 4m in 25kts, but as you only have a 5.3, you can crank on the downhaul, which loosens the leach and effectively depowers the sail allowing you to sail in stronger winds. Also flattening out the sail by cranking on the outhaul will help reduce the amount of power the sail is generating. The sail will still feel a bit uncontrollable at times and you won't feel super comfortable, but you will be able to sail and it's good practise to sail in windy conditions and it's also good as you will learn a bit more about how a sail works, how it can be rigged for certain conditions etc etc I was sailing yesterday on 28kts with a 5m. I could have sailed my 4.1m, but couldn't be bothered changing down. So although I was initially overpowered by adjusting downhaul & outhaul it became much more controllable.
Select to expand quoted11wtq said..
Yeah ok, so I'd be way overpowered and just end up either hurting myself, or finishing up extremely frustrated. Maybe I'll just go out and buy a smaller sail anyway, then I've got it.
You need a smaller board too. Big boards are dreadful in big bumps. I'd just give it a miss. Get matching gear down the track.
^^^^ +1 crank the out haul to make the sail as flat as you can, obviously need more down haul to remove the extra creases that will appear
Yeah, so this is just my first set of gear hence why I only have one of everything. I'm planning to buy a Tabou Rocket and a smaller sail at the end of the summer (if I manage to stick with it by then... I do get a buzz from sailing even in light winds, so hopefully I'll stick with it).
The sail I have is a NP Firefly. I can put a lot of downhaul tension on it to depower the sail a fair bit, and the battens are easily adjustable.
Could going out be dangerous at all, or just a waste of time? At the very least I guess I'd get some practice with the rigging for the different conditions (and carrying the equipment in those conditions).
Generally speaking, you don't adjust battens once they have been set. Just downhaul (lots) more than you imagine, and add some outhaul.
In your situation, I would find somewhere a bit more protected (there's usually a more inshore location where the wind is not so exposed). BUT make sure it is a popular windsurfing spot (don't go out alone, don't be afraid of crowd as more experienced windsurfers will know how to get out of your way).
Drive there with all your gear, walk around and talk to a couple people, try rigging up, get wet and cool down (wasn't it 40 degrees?) and see how you go. There's no need to be planing or anything. The least is you learn how to control your rig standing on the beach in high wind - this is a critical skill! There's also a chance someone may loan you a 4.2 sail.
Had the same dilemma myself last year.
Used the high winds to get beach starting practice and handling the sail while getting on the board.
I really didn't sail anywhere but I spent 2 hours in shallow water getting a feel for the equipment in high winds.
Absolutely knackered after 2 hours.
cheers Jeff
ps Rig the sail flat as above.
Select to expand quoted11wtq said..
Yeah, so this is just my first set of gear hence why I only have one of everything. I'm planning to buy a Tabou Rocket and a smaller sail at the end of the summer (if I manage to stick with it by then... I do get a buzz from sailing even in light winds, so hopefully I'll stick with it).
The sail I have is a NP Firefly. I can put a lot of downhaul tension on it to depower the sail a fair bit, and the battens are easily adjustable.
Could going out be dangerous at all, or just a waste of time? At the very least I guess I'd get some practice with the rigging for the different conditions (and carrying the equipment in those conditions).
No not really dangerous, as long as you are capable of self rescuing if things go pear shaped. And no it's not a waste of time. It will help your sailing, going out in windy conditions even if the gear is not quite suitable for those conditions.
Given you're not in harness or footstraps I'd give it a miss. I'm 68kg and would be on 4.3 in a true 25 knots - bear in mind a marine forecast of 25knots is wind out to sea so could be 5.3 weather at the beach, but if windguru and the like are forecasting 25 then it probably will be and you will get a hammering I think.
If you do go be very careful rigging - make sure your sail is secure at all times else it will end up across the road on some ones car - watch your board too.
I've been sailing a long time and probably broke my nose last time I was out in those conditions on a 4.3. Save it till the next day - wind might be perfect.
Select to expand quoteMike105 said..
Given you're not in harness or footstraps
Oh I missed that bit! You might struggle a bit in 25kts, with a 5.3 and no harness.
Don't stay home.
Go to a shop and buy a smaller sail. It's not like you're never going to use it! :D
Borrow some one gear tomorrow if you can then get out there & experience what it is like to be sailng in those conditions hey we all started tha way .(if your going to be a bear be a Grizzly)
I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but using a 145l board for sails under 5.3m is never going to work. The board simply has too much volume for strong wind sailing.
By all means go and give it a try, but I doubt you will find it enjoyable.
I appreciate you are learning, but at 65kg, you would be sailing a board of 1/2 that volume in sub 5m weather.
Just to clarify, I do have a harness and footstraps (all fitted last night). I've just never used them, so it'd be yet-another-thing-to-deal-with. It turns out one of my coworkers is a very experienced windsurfer. He's Czech and has no equipment here, but is planning on coming out with me tomorrow and maybe help me with water starts or something. He said he'd also use my 5.3m sail in those conditions.
Actually, now I'm looking at WindGuru, it's showing very different (and more beginner-friendly) numbers. I used the SeaBreeze forecasts. Why are they so different?
That said I learned on a horrible Tiga Swift with a 6m sail, and that was sailed in all conditions, 5 knot breezes up to 30 knot storms. I suppose it's all part of the learning curve.
If you were an expert it probably wouldn't be good, since you are a beginner even if your gear was sized correctly you would get flattened in wind that strong. Maybe it won't be that strong and like jervin said you could just screw around trying to waterstart and practice handling the sail, let us know how it goes.
Jumping from 10 to 25 knots will be difficult, need to work your way up
Yeah I went out to Altona with a friend who is experienced. There was a bit of wind earlier between 10am and 12pm, but it dropped off to practically nothing. The wind earlier was great for some lessons in waterstarting though. I didn't actually successfully water start, but I spent a long time just getting a feel for the wind on the sail and where the board moves as you tilt the mast, as well as practicing instinctively flipping the sail over and repeating on the other side. Really useful, I think I learnt something to get practice on anyway!
Couldn't uphaul very easily. Way too choppy. TBH, it feels like once you get waterstarting (or beach starting) sorted, you wouldn't waste the energy uphauling anyway, especially when the water is a bit choppy and the wind is onshore (the board just tips in the waves). Gonna keep practicing this for that reason.
Downside of Altona... the water is really shallow for a long way out so you have to carry the equipment a long way (and my board is heavy!).
I think you are being very adventurous which could be a good thing, or maybe not. A true 25 knots has a lot of punch and especially if you are not waterstarting it could be a challenge getting back in. Personally I would have misgivings going out in that wind if I couldn't use the harness or straps. Being able to use this gear enables you to handle those conditions, not the other way around.
Select to expand quoteBeaglebuddy said..
.... since you are a beginner even if your gear was sized correctly you would get flattened in wind that strong. .....
Jumping from 10 to 25 knots will be difficult, need to work your way up
Agreed. Maybe go out when it is 15 knots, see how it goes, and work your way up.
Worst situation is getting catapulted and putting a boom ding in the front of your brand new board. Not a nice way to start with a new board.Select to expand quoteflanagaj said..
The board simply has too much volume for strong wind sailing.
I sail my 230 litre raceboard in up to 30 knots with <6m sails and I'm 80kg. It's a question of experience and technique. It is probably more correct to say most people PREFER to sail boards around 80L in strong wind.
If, as a beginner, d11wtq (by the way, that is a mouthful) had bought a 75L board to learn on (1/2 the size of his current board as suggested), people would tell him he was an idiot. d11wtq posted the question on seabreeze before he purchased his kit, got a good and varied lot of feedback, and then made an informed decision- a far smarter approach than a lot of beginners I reckon.
Clarence
Thanks, Clarence!
The forecasted 25 knots never eventuated as it happened anyway, so it was fine. The bigger problem was the chop tipping me off the board when trying to uphaul in an onshore wind (board angled horizontal with the waves). Instead we practiced handling the sail in the water, in preparation for water starting. That's the most useful thing I got from today. That and a bit of missing skin from several fingers after letting the uphaul slide through them a few times.
I'm going down the peninsula (not sure where yet) tomorrow by myself. Will try and find a nice flat spot somewhere, do a bit of sailing and take a stab at succeeding at at least one beach start.
Select to expand quoted11wtq said..
Thanks, Clarence!
The forecasted 25 knots never eventuated as it happened anyway, so it was fine. The bigger problem was the chop tipping me off the board when trying to uphaul in an onshore wind (board angled horizontal with the waves). Instead we practiced handling the sail in the water, in preparation for water starting. That's the most useful thing I got from today. That and a bit of missing skin from several fingers after letting the uphaul slide through them a few times.
I'm going down the peninsula (not sure where yet) tomorrow by myself. Will try and find a nice flat spot somewhere, do a bit of sailing and take a stab at succeeding at at least one beach start.
Patience is a virtue in this sport d11wtq, hang in there, the rewards are huge! I will never forget the feeling when I got hooked in with both feet in the straps for the first time. You've got the right gear and the right attitude... so let the good times roll
Hey d11wtg (Bob), I like your persistence and attitude! I've been sailing for just about two years now, and I have to say that first year was pretty cruel. Everything seems waaaay to hard. But somehow it all starts to come together and then the real fun begins.
It's cruel that you need to endlessly fall off, suffer up-haul rope burn, blistered boom hands, shred skin from your toes, stub your toes looking for straps, stretched ya arms sockets and face plant like a Gumby to be tuned up perfectly to sail. But ironically, the more you suffer, the better you will sail, as you build fitness and ballance that's transforms you into a good sailer.
Once you can sail half decent you'll be stoked at all you have achieved, and know deep inside not everyone has the skills or patience to be a good windsurfer- this is why kites are so popular (sorry, couldn't help myself
)
Anyway, the bright side is everything gets easier with time on water. So keep at it Bob, look for shallows locations to practice waterstarts, beach starts etc. You will learn something new in any wind from 3 to 35 knots, but the fastest progression will be in that more comfortable 10-15 knot range.
Remember, the best windsurfer in the world is the one having the most fun!
Cheers
Hah, thanks guys! 'Bob' is off down the peninsula in what looks like a pretty windless day so far, but hopefully picking up a bit later.
