Hi.

Has anyone here tried joining with the wing yet and...
has anyone tried it using their standard Windfoilng board?

Interested in giving to a go but new wing AND a board will be too much.

Cheers

A few guys here can foil tack and jibe on both, like KevinK.
I think he mostly windfoils on I-76 while winging on I-84.
For wing, a farther forward foil position is desired, so a board with track can do both.

I do, F-One Swing 4 and 5m, have used a number of boards and foils!

I've started on an F-One Papenoo 124 (convertible sup/supfoil/windfoil/windsup), which had tracks in the windfoil position and a kfbox for supfoiling. I've used this board with surfwings (F-One Gravity 1400cm2-1800cm2-2200cm2) in the most forward track position for windfoiling, while standing about 2" further back than I would while windfoiling. For windfoiling I'd ride the foil 1-2" further back in the track, but have the frontwing extended 4-5" further forward from the mast.

I've then switched to a 110L foilsup (F-One RocketSup), and lately a 90L Wingfoil (F-One RocketWing 90L) board. Both boards are great, the wingfoil is much more compact and has the track in a better place, in the sense that the center of the track is about the center of adjustment. In terms of stance I've always had my backfoot just behind the foilmast when wingfoiling with surfwings.

I've recently also tried my windfoiling pocketboard (F-One RocketWind 105L) with my freeride windfoil (F-One Levo Carbon 900cm2). My pocketboard only has a deeptuttlebox, so I estimated the surfwings would not work. I used the windfoil wing with quite some success although I needed a lot more wind, not necessarily because of the lesser surface, but because of the way faster / thinner profile with a way higher stallspeed. The F-One 1400 or 1200 surf wings are relatively a lot closer to the 2200 in terms of early flight and stallspeed than the 900 was to the 1200. With the windfoil wing I was about 10cm further forward then I am while windfoiling, but since strapless is very OK for wingfoiling that was totally fine.

I think if you can comfortably windfoil your board with a sup/surf wing you can also comfortably wing it! Difference is that a wingfoil board generally has the nice EVA pads (also for the knees), more compactness, and tailkick to minimise drag in takeoff / have a little earlier flight! I do also miss the kickpad slightly on the windfoilboard, and I have a feeling that while slogging it is easier to go upwind for wingsurfing with the mast further forward. The former is personal preference I think, the latter is a technique thing, because if you're capable (its very easy so 2 hours maximum to learn to go upwind, I took 15 minutes) you wouldnt be slogging around anyway.

Thats good info. Thank you

I have a Naish Hover 142 so it has the track which can get the foil mast further forward and I have the SS I99 which with Switch fuse should get the foil forward too. Ive thought about putting a strap into the mast track if its around the right pace but who knows until tried.

Im looking to try and if I do actually manage to get up and flying then maybe the future will involve a new board but I would like to know.

Cheers so far

Be aware the wing doesn't fly itself in breeze under 5, so your site should have some breeze at the launch. Most guys just knee until the wind gets to 7 or so.
Probably would be difficult for me to get up to my feet, but I have bad balance and bad ankles.

I'm windfoiling with a Starboard Supercruiser and an old formula board with the nose chopped off. I have about 6mths experience on the foil, but windsurfing is still my priority. I've recently picked up a 6m Wasp wing and gave it a test run yesterday. Winds were very light (4-7kts), so I just trialled it in shallow water with a fin in the board, with the intent of just learning how this crazy contraption works. As per LeedD's comment, it was difficult to fly the wing in the lightest wind, but in the "stronger" wafts it felt good, stable and quite powerful - more like a 7m sail. Being on a fin with low wind, I had to be careful to stay upwind. With a foil it will be easy, even if plodding. You do have to be careful not to drag the wing tip, I found this only occurred due to lapses in concentration. With time, wing control will become instinctive. I did a few slo-mo gybes and I think transitions is where the wing will shine. Not to mention no mast to crack the nose of your board, or mast foot pressure to complicate flight control. I'm looking forward to using my wing on the foil now. I realise my board is way too big, but the extra stability will help for the first few sessions. My biggest problem now, is explaining to she who must be obeyed that I need another board

Wing dinging is awesome, it's so different from wind foiling like "airborne surfing" for locations that have zero surf.

I have a relatively small wing the slingwing 4.2 and waiting for some bigger wings to try, so I need a good 15+ knot puff to get the foil up. I use the infinity 99 foil wing and 48 rear as this gives me some the ability to foil pump through the no wind holes.
I have only used a SUP foil board as pumping the wing and foil takes a lot of work and any advantage you can get will make life much easier.

The slingshot board that I use is very light but more importantly the foil track is much further forward than a wind foiling board, this again helps you get forward and pump the foil. Looking forward to trying bigger wings and pushing the light wind threshold.

Thanks for the info. Looks like this could be a go/

Thanks

In terms of physical force and endurance needed, is it correct to assume that "winging it" is much more physically demanding versus windfoiling? As its like non stop demanded that you keep Holding on to it with both arms and hands?

To quote an old favourite, Danny Glover, Lethal Weapons:
"I am getting too old for this s... !"

Select to expand quote

Cyber said..
In terms of physical force and endurance needed, is it correct to assume that "winging it" is much more physically demanding versus windfoiling? As its like non stop demanded that you keep Holding on to it with both arms and hands?

To quote an old favourite, Danny Glover, Lethal Weapons:
"I am getting too old for this s... !"

Nah, in the beginning its quite exhausting, but my 3rd session was 3 hours, and my 5th a full day (6 hours with an hour break). I did windsurf and do windfoil those full days quite often though and regularly do 100+km on a day to give a stamina reference ;). At a certain point you learn to relax, and especially to straighten your arms, and then it gets way less demanding. If you keep your arms bent you get tired within the half hour.

So with large foils your using sling wings In what min breeze ?

what determines if you slingwing or windfoil ?

I've got two wind wings being delivered in a day or two (a 4 and 6 metre Wasp). I'm very anxious to give this a try -- in fact when I first saw this I wanted to give it a go but didn't know how to foil. I've got a lot of years of windsurfing behind me so I bought a foil for my board and then a foil board. I took some punishment learning and got hooked. Now it's time to give the wind wing a try.

Here's my inspiration -- Alan Cadiz.

After windsurfing all my life I love the simplicity of it all.

No masts or booms.. Just a small board about 6' long and a small bag the size of a sleeping bag.. The foil only takes a few minutes to set up.

You are ready to go in no time at all.. I love it.

Select to expand quote

DavidJohn said..
After windsurfing all my life I love the simplicity of it all.

No masts or booms.. Just a small board about 6' long and a small bag the size of a sleeping bag.. The foil only takes a few minutes to set up.

You are ready to go in no time at all.. I love it.

Awesome glides, very smooth

just received the S25 4.6 to test (still waiting on a 6.0). They are very light wings.

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
A few guys here can foil tack and jibe on both, like KevinK.
I think he mostly windfoils on I-76 while winging on I-84.
For wing, a farther forward foil position is desired, so a board with track can do both.

actually for winging i put the foil toward the back of the box on the Fanatic 6'11" Sky SUP (learning board) and the Slingshot Outwit 5'10". I've only really used the i99 w/ short fuse and i84 w/ long fuse for winging (mostly on the 99). was going to try the i76 today but the wind looked like crap.

As far as being tiring, I find my legs get more tired than my arms. Also, if I can resist the urge to try to squeeze as much power/speed out of my wing and back off the back hand a tad, the arm load is lessened by quite a lot.

One of the things i love about winging is that there's very little mental inertia to overcome to make a turn b/c you're not hooked in and you can easily glide through turns (at least w/ a big front wing for me)... just ride along and if you see something just start turning. It's sometimes a stream of consciousness type of deal when there's swell, and I also enjoy the pumping and connecting the bumps aspect of it. I've actually lost about 10lbs from winging. It's a workout!

One aspect I don't like about winging is all the leashes. Using a hip belt coil leash for the board and wrist leash for the ding.

When I go windsurfing, it's refreshing to be able to carry my rig easily as one unit, have no leashes, and hook in, feel the power, and start searching out ramps. We get pretty strong winds here in San Francisco Bay, so I'm usually on 4.4 or smaller. I wing or windfoil in lighter winds, but if there's good swell I sometimes take the wing out in up to 4.4/4.0 windsurf weather.

I find the foil stuff more tedious to rig. Attaching a mast and fuselage for some reason seems way more hassle to me than rigging a sail... maybe it's all the tools you need. My 4m wing takes 28 pumps, so that's maybe a minute total with unrolling, leashing, and pumping. I can rig a windsurf sail pretty quickly, so I don't see a big time setup advantage to either.

My first wing foil today with 6m Wasp. Wind I estimate at 8-12kts, with a few 14-15kt gusts. Semi offshore, Koombana Bay, Bunbury. Starboard formula board plus Supercruiser foil.
i did a couple of things wrong today:
1/ semi-offshore winds - not a problem with windfoiling because I can get upwind confidently. As a beginner winger, a bad idea. I lost a lot of ground first run and only just made the angle back to the beach so I could walk back upwind. I was more careful after that and was able to maintain my ground, but it probably also stopped me bearing away enough to pop on the foil at times.
2/ wrong board - I knew this board wasn't really right, but not why. Conventional windsurfing boards don't really work because without mast foot pressure you sink the tail if you stand where you need to be to pump the foil. I had to stand forward, build up board speed, then step back and pop the foil up. Trouble is, today the gusts were too short lived and my pumping technique too poor to really make the most of it. I did get foiling a few times, a very different feeling to windfoiling. I didn't realise what a security blanket it is having a connection between sail and board (UJ) to help hold everything together. With the wing there is only you, so it takes a little getting used to. I'm sure kiters would be quite at home.
I agree with Sunset's comments above about leashes , they are a bit of a pain, but not a deal breaker. Also, agree about rigging, there's really not much difference time wise rigging/ unrigging sail vs wing.

Select to expand quote

sunsetsailboards said..

actually for winging i put the foil toward the back of the box on the Fanatic 6'11" Sky SUP (learning board) and the Slingshot Outwit 5'10". I've only really used the i99 w/ short fuse and i84 w/ long fuse for winging (mostly on the 99). was going to try the i76 today but the wind looked like crap.

As far as being tiring, I find my legs get more tired than my arms. Also, if I can resist the urge to try to squeeze as much power/speed out of my wing and back off the back hand a tad, the arm load is lessened by quite a lot.

One of the things i love about winging is that there's very little mental inertia to overcome to make a turn b/c you're not hooked in and you can easily glide through turns (at least w/ a big front wing for me)... just ride along and if you see something just start turning. It's sometimes a stream of consciousness type of deal when there's swell, and I also enjoy the pumping and connecting the bumps aspect of it. I've actually lost about 10lbs from winging. It's a workout!

One aspect I don't like about winging is all the leashes. Using a hip belt coil leash for the board and wrist leash for the ding.

When I go windsurfing, it's refreshing to be able to carry my rig easily as one unit, have no leashes, and hook in, feel the power, and start searching out ramps. We get pretty strong winds here in San Francisco Bay, so I'm usually on 4.4 or smaller. I wing or windfoil in lighter winds, but if there's good swell I sometimes take the wing out in up to 4.4/4.0 windsurf weather.

I find the foil stuff more tedious to rig. Attaching a mast and fuselage for some reason seems way more hassle to me than rigging a sail... maybe it's all the tools you need. My 4m wing takes 28 pumps, so that's maybe a minute total with unrolling, leashing, and pumping. I can rig a windsurf sail pretty quickly, so I don't see a big time setup advantage to either.

How do you find the Outwit 5' 10" for winging? I'm thinking of getting one.

Select to expand quote

dejavu said..

sunsetsailboards said..

actually for winging i put the foil toward the back of the box on the Fanatic 6'11" Sky SUP (learning board) and the Slingshot Outwit 5'10". I've only really used the i99 w/ short fuse and i84 w/ long fuse for winging (mostly on the 99). was going to try the i76 today but the wind looked like crap.

As far as being tiring, I find my legs get more tired than my arms. Also, if I can resist the urge to try to squeeze as much power/speed out of my wing and back off the back hand a tad, the arm load is lessened by quite a lot.

One of the things i love about winging is that there's very little mental inertia to overcome to make a turn b/c you're not hooked in and you can easily glide through turns (at least w/ a big front wing for me)... just ride along and if you see something just start turning. It's sometimes a stream of consciousness type of deal when there's swell, and I also enjoy the pumping and connecting the bumps aspect of it. I've actually lost about 10lbs from winging. It's a workout!

One aspect I don't like about winging is all the leashes. Using a hip belt coil leash for the board and wrist leash for the ding.

When I go windsurfing, it's refreshing to be able to carry my rig easily as one unit, have no leashes, and hook in, feel the power, and start searching out ramps. We get pretty strong winds here in San Francisco Bay, so I'm usually on 4.4 or smaller. I wing or windfoil in lighter winds, but if there's good swell I sometimes take the wing out in up to 4.4/4.0 windsurf weather.

I find the foil stuff more tedious to rig. Attaching a mast and fuselage for some reason seems way more hassle to me than rigging a sail... maybe it's all the tools you need. My 4m wing takes 28 pumps, so that's maybe a minute total with unrolling, leashing, and pumping. I can rig a windsurf sail pretty quickly, so I don't see a big time setup advantage to either.

How do you find the Outwit 5' 10" for winging? I'm thinking of getting one.

just FYI, I'm a Slingshot and Fanatic dealer in the USA, so... but back to your question

I've really enjoyed it but I also don't have a lot of boards to compare it to. I've ridden the 2019 Sky SUP Foil 6'6" x 120l, 2020 Sky SUP Foil 6'11" x 142l, 2020 Naish Hover SUP Foil Carbon Ultra 5'7" x 95l. I'm getting the Fanatic Sky Wing 5'4" as soon as they arrive in the US.

At first I thought the Outwit 5'10" was really unstable for knee starting (I'm ~90kg) due to weird bevels and narrow bottom surface ~19" but after comparing to the Naish I actually found it a tad more stable. Also, as I've gotten used to the board, the stability for knee starting is no longer an issue.

Pluses:
-fairly lightweight ~14lbs
-construction seems very good. I've banged it around on the rocks quite a bit and it only has surface scratches
-weird pointy nose actually seems to give clearance in the turns
-seems to unstick easily
-fits in my windsurfing board rack in my van

Minuses:
-not sure i like the concave deck (but many boards seem to have this)
-kick pad and footstrap positions seem to far aft. center track, my feet are forward of the footstrap positions and the kicktail is like 45cm from the mast
-wish it had the option for double free ride front straps also, but i'm currently riding strapless... did two days w/ strap(s)
-offset topside carry handle is great one direction and not so great the other... made worse by concave deck
-no bottom side carry handle (like the Fanatic which has one on top and one on the bottom)
-shape looks odd on the beach, actually looks really cool on the water.

Currently using it w/ the i99 w/ short fuse and big rear, 71cm mast (also 90)... set at 3.5. Duotone 4 & 5m wings.

I did about 5-7 days on a big board (6'11") to learn and then transitioned down to this board and never looked back. It's so much easier to carry around and the low swing weight while pumping and turning is so much nicer. Also, because the track is relatively forward, the effective length in from of the mast is short... wondering if the out front length will actually be shorter than the Fanatic 5'4"

I probably have about 25 days on it now. At the time it was the only board available that was in this size, so I just bought it on a whim. Glad I did!

good video DJ

do you windfoil at all with normal rig ?

Select to expand quote

normster said..
good video DJ

do you windfoil at all with normal rig ?

Thanks.. and yes.. a little.

I had the original Naish 120 Hover windfoil board.. and now use the 150 Hover crossover board.

I'd rather use the WingSurfer on the dedicated SUP foil board.. (the 125 Hover shown in this vid).

Great info. thanks again.

My thoughts for trying the wing are based on the location I sail in. its a tidal estuary with about 5 hours useful foiling depth water per tide cycle.. There is a channel that exposes for the other 7 hours but that is 2/3 mile away from beach. We do carry our windfoil kit out in relays (about 30 minutes to complete) as the water conditions are amazing to make it worth it. A south wind gives glass water with a 2 mile run near to protected banks and shallow water if preferred. Ive learned to windsurf, Kitesurf and SUP out there and had some epic wind foiling there too.
The walk back is a killer and even if the tide comes in, dragging a full windfoil set up is a nightmare in soft mud and oyster shells to nick your sails and foil.
The wing just looks easy and simple to carry and the board can be flipped over to allow dragging back in shallow water.

Im looking at a 6m wing as Im 110 Kg.
I would like to try on my Naish Hover 142 board with a SS i99.
I am going to attach a leash to the rear foot strap or maybe screw a leash attachment into one of the rear plugs and remove the straps completely.


QUESTION. If the wind increases does the wing become unusable? Can you still use it sheeted out and feathered?


Cheers for the input so far.

Regards

Yes, wings seem to be the easiest to sheet out when overpowered.
Your hands just slide forward, with more control than a kite sheeted out.

Select to expand quote

sunsetsailboards said..

dejavu said..

sunsetsailboards said..

actually for winging i put the foil toward the back of the box on the Fanatic 6'11" Sky SUP (learning board) and the Slingshot Outwit 5'10". I've only really used the i99 w/ short fuse and i84 w/ long fuse for winging (mostly on the 99). was going to try the i76 today but the wind looked like crap.

As far as being tiring, I find my legs get more tired than my arms. Also, if I can resist the urge to try to squeeze as much power/speed out of my wing and back off the back hand a tad, the arm load is lessened by quite a lot.

One of the things i love about winging is that there's very little mental inertia to overcome to make a turn b/c you're not hooked in and you can easily glide through turns (at least w/ a big front wing for me)... just ride along and if you see something just start turning. It's sometimes a stream of consciousness type of deal when there's swell, and I also enjoy the pumping and connecting the bumps aspect of it. I've actually lost about 10lbs from winging. It's a workout!

One aspect I don't like about winging is all the leashes. Using a hip belt coil leash for the board and wrist leash for the ding.

When I go windsurfing, it's refreshing to be able to carry my rig easily as one unit, have no leashes, and hook in, feel the power, and start searching out ramps. We get pretty strong winds here in San Francisco Bay, so I'm usually on 4.4 or smaller. I wing or windfoil in lighter winds, but if there's good swell I sometimes take the wing out in up to 4.4/4.0 windsurf weather.

I find the foil stuff more tedious to rig. Attaching a mast and fuselage for some reason seems way more hassle to me than rigging a sail... maybe it's all the tools you need. My 4m wing takes 28 pumps, so that's maybe a minute total with unrolling, leashing, and pumping. I can rig a windsurf sail pretty quickly, so I don't see a big time setup advantage to either.

How do you find the Outwit 5' 10" for winging? I'm thinking of getting one.

just FYI, I'm a Slingshot and Fanatic dealer in the USA, so... but back to your question

I've really enjoyed it but I also don't have a lot of boards to compare it to. I've ridden the 2019 Sky SUP Foil 6'6" x 120l, 2020 Sky SUP Foil 6'11" x 142l, 2020 Naish Hover SUP Foil Carbon Ultra 5'7" x 95l. I'm getting the Fanatic Sky Wing 5'4" as soon as they arrive in the US.

At first I thought the Outwit 5'10" was really unstable for knee starting (I'm ~90kg) due to weird bevels and narrow bottom surface ~19" but after comparing to the Naish I actually found it a tad more stable. Also, as I've gotten used to the board, the stability for knee starting is no longer an issue.

Pluses:
-fairly lightweight ~14lbs
-construction seems very good. I've banged it around on the rocks quite a bit and it only has surface scratches
-weird pointy nose actually seems to give clearance in the turns
-seems to unstick easily
-fits in my windsurfing board rack in my van

Minuses:
-not sure i like the concave deck (but many boards seem to have this)
-kick pad and footstrap positions seem to far aft. center track, my feet are forward of the footstrap positions and the kicktail is like 45cm from the mast
-wish it had the option for double free ride front straps also, but i'm currently riding strapless... did two days w/ strap(s)
-offset topside carry handle is great one direction and not so great the other... made worse by concave deck
-no bottom side carry handle (like the Fanatic which has one on top and one on the bottom)
-shape looks odd on the beach, actually looks really cool on the water.

Currently using it w/ the i99 w/ short fuse and big rear, 71cm mast (also 90)... set at 3.5. Duotone 4 & 5m wings.

I did about 5-7 days on a big board (6'11") to learn and then transitioned down to this board and never looked back. It's so much easier to carry around and the low swing weight while pumping and turning is so much nicer. Also, because the track is relatively forward, the effective length in from of the mast is short... wondering if the out front length will actually be shorter than the Fanatic 5'4"

I probably have about 25 days on it now. At the time it was the only board available that was in this size, so I just bought it on a whim. Glad I did!

Thanks for the reply.

Select to expand quote

Heliboy999 said..
Great info. thanks again.

My thoughts for trying the wing are based on the location I sail in. its a tidal estuary with about 5 hours useful foiling depth water per tide cycle.. There is a channel that exposes for the other 7 hours but that is 2/3 mile away from beach. We do carry our windfoil kit out in relays (about 30 minutes to complete) as the water conditions are amazing to make it worth it. A south wind gives glass water with a 2 mile run near to protected banks and shallow water if preferred. Ive learned to windsurf, Kitesurf and SUP out there and had some epic wind foiling there too.
The walk back is a killer and even if the tide comes in, dragging a full windfoil set up is a nightmare in soft mud and oyster shells to nick your sails and foil.
The wing just looks easy and simple to carry and the board can be flipped over to allow dragging back in shallow water.

Im looking at a 6m wing as Im 110 Kg.
I would like to try on my Naish Hover 142 board with a SS i99.
I am going to attach a leash to the rear foot strap or maybe screw a leash attachment into one of the rear plugs and remove the straps completely.


QUESTION. If the wind increases does the wing become unusable? Can you still use it sheeted out and feathered?


Cheers for the input so far.

Regards

In my experience the wings are really easy to control overpowered. I dont have a boom on my wing (thats silly in all honesty because it limits the depower / feathering characteristics if you just want to surf swell because of the added weight), but its similar to a kite with a similar windrange, you can just hold it nearer to 12 oclock to depower, and push it further forward and down in the windwindow to power up.