I was getting some consistant flights of about 1 minute today, on my best run I was getting comfortable angling upwind and everything felt balanced and fast for a minute or so. My dad was on jetski and was going to get a video but he didn't because he said I was going by to fast .

When I was getting over powered a bit in some of the gusts I was sheeting out a bit and trying to get my weight forward. When I would do this the foil would 'ventilate' and I would either loose speed and crash, loose speed by carving a 's' until I'm off the foil or breach and crash or just jumped off a few times even. How should I change my technique? I think the mast base could have been further forward. It was about 2-3 cm from the vent screw(mast track was just showing at the back when the base was on) . Which was fine for foiling an hour earlier in the day. It's crazy how much the wind can change and how little adjustments can through you off. With more tow and playing with things I should get it sorted eventually. This was my 3rd time using the jp and slingshot combo. First time using a relatively small sail too(5.2) and that seemed to make things even nicer. Maybe will try the 4.2 next time if it's gusting to 15 kts.

Today's setup:
Jp 135(fws)
SS foil/76 wing/90 mast
5.2 sail(2001 np raf jet, matches the board and foil naturally)

As a side note a hobie cat getaway was ripping pretty good I was catching up to it until I crashed. Even though I was not going in a straight line because of challenging conditions and lack of skill. I figured a more experienced foiler could have past him. He was not going on a crazy up angle either.

Weight has a huge bearing, as does sail tuning.
If 76 is for heavier riders but maybe not for 230lbs, when the 84 works best for riders 180 and up in light winds.

Good foiler on Naish 65 1235 sq. out today in 14-21 mph and 4.0. 130 lbs.

Me 160lbs., overpowered on 5.2 and 65 foil at 1265 sq...smallwer than In 76 in gusts of 20.
Powered up windsurfing with 5.2 and 95 liter board in those gusts.

Cats are slow in 15+ conditions.
Foils also, unless you happen to have a race slalom foil.

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CAN17 said..
I was getting some consistant flights of about 1 minute today, on my best run I was getting comfortable angling upwind and everything felt balanced and fast for a minute or so. My dad was on jetski and was going to get a video but he didn't because he said I was going by to fast .

When I was getting over powered a bit in some of the gusts I was sheeting out a bit and trying to get my weight forward. When I would do this the foil would 'ventilate' and I would either loose speed and crash, loose speed by carving a 's' until I'm off the foil or breach and crash or just jumped off a few times even. How should I change my technique? I think the mast base could have been further forward. It was about 2-3 cm from the vent screw(mast track was just showing at the back when the base was on) . Which was fine for foiling an hour earlier in the day. It's crazy how much the wind can change and how little adjustments can through you off. With more tow and playing with things I should get it sorted eventually. This was my 3rd time using the jp and slingshot combo. First time using a relatively small sail too(5.2) and that seemed to make things even nicer. Maybe will try the 4.2 next time if it's gusting to 15 kts.

Today's setup:
Jp 135(fws)
SS foil/76 wing/90 mast
5.2 sail(2001 np raf jet, matches the board and foil naturally)

As a side note a hobie cat getaway was ripping pretty good I was catching up to it until I crashed. Even though I was not going in a straight line because of challenging conditions and lack of skill. I figured a more experienced foiler could have past him. He was not going on a crazy up angle either.

Hi Can17

when i I first started foiling I would do exactly what youve described plus bearing off a little as well.

after a while though you start to sail it like a normal windsurfer in gusts ie sheet in and push/ point it harder upwind in the gusts which is a much more controllable situation. The slight difference is some more front foot pressure will be required and you fly the foil a bit lower than usual to ride through the gusts and have mast height to play with

Mark sure harness lines are forward.

If at medium speed you are breaching a lot, move the mast track forward.

Bend the front knee and sink into to the harness lines a bit for typical riding

If you are only breeching during the gusts I would this:
1) avoid sheeting out too much as I believe it decreases mast foot pressure allowing the foil to rise
2) turn up wind more
3) step forward with your back foot

I think thedoor has it right. Additionally, I lock out my rear leg, and lean a bit more forward, using the front leg to balance the pitch. But yesterday I had a bunch of gusts and just went up wind more... be sure to bear off once you're through the gust.

Also, try putting your front straps one notch forward if you can.

Amendment to my post about good foiler...wind meter was out of service yesterday..good foiler on 4.0 Naish setup, smaller wing than If76, was out in 12-17 mph breezes. Around 140lbs, with 4/3 wetsuit added on top.

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thedoor said..
Mark sure harness lines are forward.

If at medium speed you are breaching a lot, move the mast track forward.

Bend the front knee and sink into to the harness lines a bit for typical riding

If you are only breeching during the gusts I would this:
1) avoid sheeting out too much as I believe it decreases mast foot pressure allowing the foil to rise
2) turn up wind more
3) step forward with your back foot

Thanks for the great tips from everyone. I tried putting the mast base forward a bit(centre) in winds of 5 kts gusting to 9 kts. I was getting up and foiling in the gusts with hard pumping on a 7.5 twin cam sail. I wonder if having the mast base in a rear most position makes things twitchy or harder to control in gusts. I would fly until the wind dropped down to probably the 5 or 6 kt threshold. Then it was shlog city until the next gust.

Yesterday when the wind was lighter and nicely powered on my 5.2 I was perfectly balanced and slightly angling the board and going up wind kinda like a kiteboader. I was hiked out like a windsurfer but I see what indecentexposur means by bearing off once through the gust so you don't fall windward and can foil on. It was a awesome feeling. Way better then formula sailing.

Select to expand quote

IndecentExposur said..
I think thedoor has it right. Additionally, I lock out my rear leg, and lean a bit more forward, using the front leg to balance the pitch. But yesterday I had a bunch of gusts and just went up wind more... be sure to bear off once you're through the gust.

Also, try putting your front straps one notch forward if you can.

I just started to do that...lock at the rear leg and lean forward. My old foil was so back foot heavy I never really learned the proper stance but it feels way better now. I will try the front strap forward more but it will be slightly inboard more aswell. I think this should help for stronger winds as it sometimes felt I was going to fall forward from having the top of my body weight so far over my front foot.

I noticed in light winds on my 7.5 I would use the back strap normally but in a bit stronger winds on my 5.2 I would put my back foot just in front of the rear strap.; so evenly powered on the two different sized sails (different winds) but my stance is more forward on the 5.2 , could be the wind strength or the power delivery on two totally different sails. Or maybe a combination of both?

Will play with things and try to make it three days in a row foiling

Select to expand quote

CAN17 said..

thedoor said..
Mark sure harness lines are forward.

If at medium speed you are breaching a lot, move the mast track forward.

Bend the front knee and sink into to the harness lines a bit for typical riding

If you are only breeching during the gusts I would this:
1) avoid sheeting out too much as I believe it decreases mast foot pressure allowing the foil to rise
2) turn up wind more
3) step forward with your back foot

Thanks for the great tips from everyone. I tried putting the mast base forward a bit(centre) in winds of 5 kts gusting to 9 kts. I was getting up and foiling in the gusts with hard pumping on a 7.5 twin cam sail. I wonder if having the mast base in a rear most position makes things twitchy or harder to control in gusts. I would fly until the wind dropped down to probably the 5 or 6 kt threshold. Then it was shlog city until the next gust.

Yesterday when the wind was lighter and nicely powered on my 5.2 I was perfectly balanced and slightly angling the board and going up wind kinda like a kiteboader. I was hiked out like a windsurfer but I see what indecentexposur means by bearing off once through the gust so you don't fall windward and can foil on. It was a awesome feeling. Way better then formula sailing.

IndecentExposur said..
I think thedoor has it right. Additionally, I lock out my rear leg, and lean a bit more forward, using the front leg to balance the pitch. But yesterday I had a bunch of gusts and just went up wind more... be sure to bear off once you're through the gust.

Also, try putting your front straps one notch forward if you can.

I just started to do that...lock at the rear leg and lean forward. My old foil was so back foot heavy I never really learned the proper stance but it feels way better now. I will try the front strap forward more but it will be slightly inboard more aswell. I think this should help for stronger winds as it sometimes felt I was going to fall forward from having the top of my body weight so far over my front foot.

I noticed in light winds on my 7.5 I would use the back strap normally but in a bit stronger winds on my 5.2 I would put my back foot just in front of the rear strap.; so evenly powered on the two different sized sails (different winds) but my stance is more forward on the 5.2 , could be the wind strength or the power delivery on two totally different sails. Or maybe a combination of both?

Will play with things and try to make it three days in a row foiling

It might very well be because 5.2 sail is lighter than 7.5 and needs to be positioned further forward to preserve the balance of the setup. I always put bigger sails further back.

My current set up has me barely using the back strap, which is different than three months ago, I think this is mostly due to moving mast base forward. Overall the riding is good, and gybes are much easier, this might be skill acquisition too

Select to expand quote

CAN17 said..

thedoor said..
Mark sure harness lines are forward.

If at medium speed you are breaching a lot, move the mast track forward.

Bend the front knee and sink into to the harness lines a bit for typical riding

If you are only breeching during the gusts I would this:
1) avoid sheeting out too much as I believe it decreases mast foot pressure allowing the foil to rise
2) turn up wind more
3) step forward with your back foot

Thanks for the great tips from everyone. I tried putting the mast base forward a bit(centre) in winds of 5 kts gusting to 9 kts. I was getting up and foiling in the gusts with hard pumping on a 7.5 twin cam sail. I wonder if having the mast base in a rear most position makes things twitchy or harder to control in gusts. I would fly until the wind dropped down to probably the 5 or 6 kt threshold. Then it was shlog city until the next gust.

Yesterday when the wind was lighter and nicely powered on my 5.2 I was perfectly balanced and slightly angling the board and going up wind kinda like a kiteboader. I was hiked out like a windsurfer but I see what indecentexposur means by bearing off once through the gust so you don't fall windward and can foil on. It was a awesome feeling. Way better then formula sailing.

IndecentExposur said..
I think thedoor has it right. Additionally, I lock out my rear leg, and lean a bit more forward, using the front leg to balance the pitch. But yesterday I had a bunch of gusts and just went up wind more... be sure to bear off once you're through the gust.

Also, try putting your front straps one notch forward if you can.

I just started to do that...lock at the rear leg and lean forward. My old foil was so back foot heavy I never really learned the proper stance but it feels way better now. I will try the front strap forward more but it will be slightly inboard more aswell. I think this should help for stronger winds as it sometimes felt I was going to fall forward from having the top of my body weight so far over my front foot.

I noticed in light winds on my 7.5 I would use the back strap normally but in a bit stronger winds on my 5.2 I would put my back foot just in front of the rear strap.; so evenly powered on the two different sized sails (different winds) but my stance is more forward on the 5.2 , could be the wind strength or the power delivery on two totally different sails. Or maybe a combination of both?

Will play with things and try to make it three days in a row foiling

Glad to hear the changes are helping out. I've learned (and have been told), that small changes (a few cm at a time) can change the feel noticeably. I also learned (last week from a shop manager in California) that the waist harnesses are better because you can shift your hips forward and aft to trim board pitch without adjusting the sail. I recently moved to a waist harness from a seat harness just to try things out. I've noticed a significant and positive experience using the waist harness. I can stay in the harness lines longer and adjust for lighter/stronger winds as needed. I don't have the 'hook', but rather that little roller in the spreader to move fore and aft on the lines.

If you thought mast base pressure was important for fin windsurfing, multiply that by ten for foiling.

Sheeting out will decrease mbp, coming off the harness will decrease mbp. Be ready to compensate with down pressure on the boom.

Select to expand quote

IndecentExposur said..

CAN17 said..

thedoor said..
Mark sure harness lines are forward.

If at medium speed you are breaching a lot, move the mast track forward.

Bend the front knee and sink into to the harness lines a bit for typical riding

If you are only breeching during the gusts I would this:
1) avoid sheeting out too much as I believe it decreases mast foot pressure allowing the foil to rise
2) turn up wind more
3) step forward with your back foot

Thanks for the great tips from everyone. I tried putting the mast base forward a bit(centre) in winds of 5 kts gusting to 9 kts. I was getting up and foiling in the gusts with hard pumping on a 7.5 twin cam sail. I wonder if having the mast base in a rear most position makes things twitchy or harder to control in gusts. I would fly until the wind dropped down to probably the 5 or 6 kt threshold. Then it was shlog city until the next gust.

Yesterday when the wind was lighter and nicely powered on my 5.2 I was perfectly balanced and slightly angling the board and going up wind kinda like a kiteboader. I was hiked out like a windsurfer but I see what indecentexposur means by bearing off once through the gust so you don't fall windward and can foil on. It was a awesome feeling. Way better then formula sailing.

IndecentExposur said..
I think thedoor has it right. Additionally, I lock out my rear leg, and lean a bit more forward, using the front leg to balance the pitch. But yesterday I had a bunch of gusts and just went up wind more... be sure to bear off once you're through the gust.

Also, try putting your front straps one notch forward if you can.

I just started to do that...lock at the rear leg and lean forward. My old foil was so back foot heavy I never really learned the proper stance but it feels way better now. I will try the front strap forward more but it will be slightly inboard more aswell. I think this should help for stronger winds as it sometimes felt I was going to fall forward from having the top of my body weight so far over my front foot.

I noticed in light winds on my 7.5 I would use the back strap normally but in a bit stronger winds on my 5.2 I would put my back foot just in front of the rear strap.; so evenly powered on the two different sized sails (different winds) but my stance is more forward on the 5.2 , could be the wind strength or the power delivery on two totally different sails. Or maybe a combination of both?

Will play with things and try to make it three days in a row foiling

Glad to hear the changes are helping out. I've learned (and have been told), that small changes (a few cm at a time) can change the feel noticeably. I also learned (last week from a shop manager in California) that the waist harnesses are better because you can shift your hips forward and aft to trim board pitch without adjusting the sail. I recently moved to a waist harness from a seat harness just to try things out. I've noticed a significant and positive experience using the waist harness. I can stay in the harness lines longer and adjust for lighter/stronger winds as needed. I don't have the 'hook', but rather that little roller in the spreader to move fore and aft on the lines.

Yes I also have that roller instead of the hook on my waist harness.

I found cranking upwind worked really well in the gusty overpowering conditions along with getting my body weight forward and locking the back leg. When I was getting good speed upwind it felt kinda like the board was riding nose down. My assumption for why this was happening was the downfoce created by the wingtips when traveling at a good speed as Tony L explains is a feature on the SS infinity wings.

I moved the straps forward; the back and front strap is pretty well as outboard and forward as you can get them on my jp 135. I see why PWA guys use wider boards and big sail etc to get that upwind angle , I find my board (86 cm) gives me a very decent angle upwind for rec foiling. I never used the harness when foiling until today and I got them in a position that I like. Made things a little less tiring.

Overall today showed great progress. But downwind when it got windier was a different story. I was having my front foot in the strap and my back foot center of the board ahead of the fin screws. I was sheeting out and trying not to have much wind in the sail. It was way less pitch stable going downwind then upwind. Actually going downwind is my least favorite thing to do on a foil.

Hi CAN,

Recently we had foil world champ Gonzalo Costa-Hoevel here doing some testing of gear and he gave us some tips which may help. One of the things he shared was that they mostly start their mast base at 130, and then move it forward as the wind picks up.
They don't really use sails smaller than 8m because the bigger sails help them generate speed and mast base pressure to go as fast as possible while keeping the foil from breaching. You run the same board as me so you will have the same marking on your board, so start your mast base at 130 and see how it feels. Even if your using smaller sails, just try your base further forward to help put mast base pressure on when you sheet in. You definitely don't want to sheet out when you get hit by a gust because as mentioned before it takes away the mast base pressure and causes breaching.
What you want to do is point high up into the wind and lean forward. Once you get through the gust, you can bear away a bit more to maintain the height you want on the foil.
The other thing you can do is lean the board a little to windward, which also help put pressure on the board because the wind will push down on it as it hits you.

Anyway, I hope some of that helps. Have fun. :)

Select to expand quote

CAN17
I was sheeting out and trying not to have much wind in the sail. It was way less pitch stable going downwind then upwind. Actually going downwind is my least favorite thing to do on a foil.

If you're finding it difficult to downwind with the Slingshot Infinity 76 wing, my guess is that your sail is too big and you're overpowering the wing.

It's a high-lift wing optimised for carving and turning, small sails and inboard straps are the go - let the wing do the work

Great tips from Wyatt (about 12 mins in) for beginners using the Slingshot Infinity wings;

gleiten.tv/index.php/video/action/story/v/3288/s/64/page/436/

My tips..

Try a wider footstrap spread for foiling, than you use for regular windsurfing. It helps tremendously. I also kite foil, where the standard strap spread is 4" wider than a regular windsurfer. That's where I got the idea to experiment with wider. I windsurf foil with a 24" spread. My wife with a 23" spread. Kiters ride with 26". Most windsurfers are 22" spread.

For your own enjoyment and safety, learn to foil near dead downwind. This will let you get home should the wind pickup too much. You'll find it such a joy to do, because you can sail farther off the wind than a regular windsurf. The foil makes it so. You become a wave foiling, surfer, and it's so fun! The rear foot is out of the strap, centered. All the power leaves the sail and you're just surfing, catching wind waves.

Select to expand quote

Maddlad said..
Hi CAN,

Recently we had foil world champ Gonzalo Costa-Hoevel here doing some testing of gear and he gave us some tips which may help. One of the things he shared was that they mostly start their mast base at 130, and then move it forward as the wind picks up.
They don't really use sails smaller than 8m because the bigger sails help them generate speed and mast base pressure to go as fast as possible while keeping the foil from breaching. You run the same board as me so you will have the same marking on your board, so start your mast base at 130 and see how it feels. Even if your using smaller sails, just try your base further forward to help put mast base pressure on when you sheet in. You definitely don't want to sheet out when you get hit by a gust because as mentioned before it takes away the mast base pressure and causes breaching.
What you want to do is point high up into the wind and lean forward. Once you get through the gust, you can bear away a bit more to maintain the height you want on the foil.
The other thing you can do is lean the board a little to windward, which also help put pressure on the board because the wind will push down on it as it hits you.

Anyway, I hope some of that helps. Have fun. :)

This is good.