Hey all, I'm interested in the freestyle 87. I currently ride a Wizard 105. I live in a super windy place (SF bay) and am enjoying foiling in high winds. My most used sail is 3.4. I like the super compact shape of the 87 and the single rear footstraps. With small sails I don't really use the rear straps much on the Wizard, and often wish for a center strap.

I'm most curious about what it's like slogging the 87. If the wind dies, how's it compare to something like a wizard 105, or a traditional shortboard? Can you actually make progress? I can slog the Wizard pretty well.

How about up hauling? Obviously I'd be losing a good amount of volume. I don't have any issues uphauling the wizard 105 unless it's extremely choppy (even then, it's still not too bad). The biggest thing to get used to was the lack of nose volume.

Clearly weight is important for these questions, and I'm a super lightweight at about 63kg.

Maybe it's not as much of an issue as I think, as I've rarely had to slog back to the beach since I use a lifty infinity foil. But good to know in case.

Thanks for any input.

Weight+15L is about the minimum volume requirement to comfortably uphaul a board for the advanced rider, so with +24L you should be more than fine.

I think you will be very happy with the fs87, I feel a lot of lightweights make the "error" of picking a board not suited for their weightclass, and hence not getting the most out of their kit. You need a certain weight and power to manouvre a big board, I feel that for lightweights really having a foilboard in the weight +15 to weight +25L range should greatly enhance the riding experience, since its the same for everyone else who gets a pocket windfoilboard!

Hi Windserf

I think you would enjoy the 87L. :). Especially with the wind strength you are having there.
Where you thinking of having this board as your only one? (or keeping the Wizard 105L)

We are quite a few guys here having the Freestyle 87L as our 2'nd board, for the higher wind.
Matched with Wizard 125, 105 and Freestyle 115.

The 87L is lots of fun, and as you pointed out with the single strap option on the rear, you can really take advantage of cranking the turns.
Paired with the Infinity 65cm, it's a fast and super responsive set up
If jumping is your thing, then this is also the best board for it.

Saying this we are all around 80-85kg, so we do need the bigger boards for the lighter winds.

I had one guy demoing my 87L, and he was around 63kg as well. He did mention that he could up haul on it.
Now he consider to have this size as his only board.

I will ask him next time, if slogging in slow speed was ok on this board,,

Awesome, thanks for the feedback!


initially I was thinking I'd keep my 105. But if I only really go out in 15-25 knots, maybe the 87 may end up being my only board. I think it'll just depend on how it would handle if the wind unexpectedly dropped, would I still be able to uphaul and slog a bit or would i be hosed.

It is nice having the security of the 105, know that if the wind drops to even 0 I can still stand on it. Maybe the 105 would be the "questionable forecast" choice.

Hey Windserf

this post could be from me

I am also 63 kilos and I also own a 105.
The 105 is a big boat for me.... more than enough volume even in light winds.
For the last couple months I thought about the 87 and if it would be enough for me as a one board only option. In contrast to you I live in a light wind area (south Germany).... But .... I bought the board last week, it will arrive tomorrow. Once we get a windy day I will report about how I managed to sail on it.

PS
CENTRAL REAR STRAP POSITION!!!??
The salesman of the board told me: you cant fix the footstrap right in the center, as the screw holes are 4cm apart (and all windsurf footstraps with 4 screws are 3 cm apart)
does anybody know, how to screw the back strap in the center?

Awesome! Looking forward to the report.

and yeah about the center rear strap, I noticed that looking at photos online. It's directly over the foil mast mount, so it looks like you can basically put it on either side of the foil mast. Never truly in the center. At least that's what I gathered from images. I would probably need to design some kind of adapter place because the slight asymmetry would drive me nuts. Maybe something with a quick release so you can pivot it out of the way to install the foil.

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BastiPinata said..
Hey Windserf

this post could be from me

I am also 63 kilos and I also own a 105.
The 105 is a big boat for me.... more than enough volume even in light winds.
For the last couple months I thought about the 87 and if it would be enough for me as a one board only option. In contrast to you I live in a light wind area (south Germany).... But .... I bought the board last week, it will arrive tomorrow. Once we get a windy day I will report about how I managed to sail on it.

PS
CENTRAL REAR STRAP POSITION!!!??
The salesman of the board told me: you cant fix the footstrap right in the center, as the screw holes are 4cm apart (and all windsurf footstraps with 4 screws are 3 cm apart)
does anybody know, how to screw the back strap in the center?

use the slingshot surf strap (not the newer windsurf straps)... it now comes w/ wider spaced holes hand a metal plate to span the rear hole spacing on the freestyle board.

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sunsetsailboards said..

BastiPinata said..
Hey Windserf

this post could be from me

I am also 63 kilos and I also own a 105.
The 105 is a big boat for me.... more than enough volume even in light winds.
For the last couple months I thought about the 87 and if it would be enough for me as a one board only option. In contrast to you I live in a light wind area (south Germany).... But .... I bought the board last week, it will arrive tomorrow. Once we get a windy day I will report about how I managed to sail on it.

PS
CENTRAL REAR STRAP POSITION!!!??
The salesman of the board told me: you cant fix the footstrap right in the center, as the screw holes are 4cm apart (and all windsurf footstraps with 4 screws are 3 cm apart)
does anybody know, how to screw the back strap in the center?

use the slingshot surf strap (not the newer windsurf straps)... it now comes w/ wider spaced holes hand a metal plate to span the rear hole spacing on the freestyle board.

Agree on the surfstrap but I had to remove the metal plate to match up the holes. I love that strap

www.instagram.com/p/CA04bFAjOLi/

30% more volume than bodyweight should be loads. My board is a similar ratio (90kg sailor and 120L board) but much less volume in the tail and it works great. I could even go down another 10L if I didn't want really light wind performance.

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BastiPinata said..CENTRAL REAR STRAP POSITION!!!??
The salesman of the board told me: you cant fix the footstrap right in the center, as the screw holes are 4cm apart (and all windsurf footstraps with 4 screws are 3 cm apart)
does anybody know, how to screw the back strap in the center?

Perhaps first try downwinding (pix below is near dead downwind) and wave riding with your back foot in the existing strap position - I reckon it works ok

An added benefit is you can power upwind more easily with your foot on the rail (in the strap).

Weight + 15L requires weight in kg, not pounds like we yanks use.

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Sail Repair WA said..
Hi Windserf

I think you would enjoy the 87L. :). Especially with the wind strength you are having there.
Where you thinking of having this board as your only one? (or keeping the Wizard 105L)

We are quite a few guys here having the Freestyle 87L as our 2'nd board, for the higher wind.
Matched with Wizard 125, 105 and Freestyle 115.

The 87L is lots of fun, and as you pointed out with the single strap option on the rear, you can really take advantage of cranking the turns.
Paired with the Infinity 65cm, it's a fast and super responsive set up
If jumping is your thing, then this is also the best board for it.

Saying this we are all around 80-85kg, so we do need the bigger boards for the lighter winds.

I had one guy demoing my 87L, and he was around 63kg as well. He did mention that he could up haul on it.
Now he consider to have this size as his only board.

I will ask him next time, if slogging in slow speed was ok on this board,,

Yep that was me. I'm actually more like 67kg, but still the volume was more than enough for both uphauling and slogging.
Since the volume is mostly aft, there's plenty where you need it for slogging.Uphauling was fine as well, due to the short nose, you just need to load up your back foot for balance.
But my biggest wave board is 77L so I'm used to it I guess.

With the SS i84 wing & 5.6 I could get it going as fast, if not earlier, than others on bigger boards and sails.
But it is much more fun with smaller sails and wings obviously.

Once you would have this board, I can't see you using your 105 again.

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segler said..
Weight + 15L requires weight in kg, not pounds like we yanks use.

Not trying to be condescending but given this is an Australian web site and the majority of users are Australian and the fact the entire planet apart from the US uses the metric system you can assume all measurements people post are in kgs, meters, kilometres, liters and wind strengths are in knots not miles/hr.

I think these rules of thumb may not scale up well for larger sailors. They also are very dependent on the skill of the sailor and the conditions as well as the volume distribution of the board. For instance I am 100 kg and a 115 - 130L board would not be fun for me if I needed to uphaul. I have intermediate skills and I can water start, gybe and uphaul. I learned to foil on a 125L purpose built foil board that is similar to a Horue Tiny. I made it work but it was an unnecessary struggle. I have since switched to 180L and I wonder how I ever learned on 125l. I think 155-160L will be the sweet spot for me for sails under 6 meters but sails above that 180l is just right. I point this out for all the bigger beginner windsurfers that may be reading this thread. Sadly there are not many freeride options for boards in this size range.

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utcminusfour said..
I think these rules of thumb may not scale up well for larger sailors. They also are very dependent on the skill of the sailor and the conditions as well as the volume distribution of the board. For instance I am 100 kg and a 115 - 130L board would not be fun for me if I needed to uphaul. I have intermediate skills and I can water start, gybe and uphaul. I learned to foil on a 125L purpose built foil board that is similar to a Horue Tiny. I made it work but it was an unnecessary struggle. I have since switched to 180L and I wonder how I ever learned on 125l. I think 155-160L will be the sweet spot for me for sails under 6 meters but sails above that 180l is just right. I point this out for all the bigger beginner windsurfers that may be reading this thread. Sadly there are not many freeride options for boards in this size range.

Once I learned how to water start I never up hauled again except for the rare occasions when the wind died. I just got bad at it. I weigh 205 lbs dry, and the last time I up hauled on a 140 liter board i was up to my knees in the water. I now have the 160 Levitator and wish it was a 200 Levitator.

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utcminusfour said..
I think these rules of thumb may not scale up well for larger sailors. They also are very dependent on the skill of the sailor and the conditions as well as the volume distribution of the board. For instance I am 100 kg and a 115 - 130L board would not be fun for me if I needed to uphaul. I have intermediate skills and I can water start, gybe and uphaul. I learned to foil on a 125L purpose built foil board that is similar to a Horue Tiny. I made it work but it was an unnecessary struggle. I have since switched to 180L and I wonder how I ever learned on 125l. I think 155-160L will be the sweet spot for me for sails under 6 meters but sails above that 180l is just right. I point this out for all the bigger beginner windsurfers that may be reading this thread. Sadly there are not many freeride options for boards in this size range.

Once I learned how to water start I never up hauled again except for the rare occasions when the wind died. I just got bad at it. I weigh 205 lbs dry, and the last time I up hauled on a 140 liter board i was up to my knees in the water. I now have the 160 Levitator and wish it was a 200 Levitator.

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Eazy said..


Yep that was me. I'm actually more like 67kg, but still the volume was more than enough for both uphauling and slogging.
Since the volume is mostly aft, there's plenty where you need it for slogging.Uphauling was fine as well, due to the short nose, you just need to load up your back foot for balance.
But my biggest wave board is 77L so I'm used to it I guess.

With the SS i84 wing & 5.6 I could get it going as fast, if not earlier, than others on bigger boards and sails.
But it is much more fun with smaller sails and wings obviously.

Once you would have this board, I can't see you using your 105 again.

Do you only have the i84, or also an i76? I debating on these two sizes of front wings for a foil.

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shmish said..


Do you only have the i84, or also an i76? I debating on these two sizes of front wings for a foil.

I have the i84 and i65, didn't bother with the i76.
Mainly got the i84 as I also want to use it for SUP foiling and (very) light wind windsurfing.
If only for windsurfing that the i76 should be a good one foil setup.

I uphauled a lot when I first started foiling. I'd usually rig conservatively - if I had enough power to water start, I felt like I was overpowered.

A year later, my last session I only water started because I can deal with a bit more power now. But, always nice to know that uphauling and slogging are an option if the wind drops a bit.
Another thought on the +15L rule. I think it's generally easier to uphaul a foil board than a traditional board. Normally they're a bit wider, and the mast sort of acts like a keel to keep things stable.
Ok I think I've convinced myself I need to get an freestyle 87L.

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JonnyWindsurf said..

utcminusfour said..
I think these rules of thumb may not scale up well for larger sailors. They also are very dependent on the skill of the sailor and the conditions as well as the volume distribution of the board. For instance I am 100 kg and a 115 - 130L board would not be fun for me if I needed to uphaul. I have intermediate skills and I can water start, gybe and uphaul. I learned to foil on a 125L purpose built foil board that is similar to a Horue Tiny. I made it work but it was an unnecessary struggle. I have since switched to 180L and I wonder how I ever learned on 125l. I think 155-160L will be the sweet spot for me for sails under 6 meters but sails above that 180l is just right. I point this out for all the bigger beginner windsurfers that may be reading this thread. Sadly there are not many freeride options for boards in this size range.

Once I learned how to water start I never up hauled again except for the rare occasions when the wind died. I just got bad at it. I weigh 205 lbs dry, and the last time I up hauled on a 140 liter board i was up to my knees in the water. I now have the 160 Levitator and wish it was a 200 Levitator.

Im also 200-205lbs, and I'm on a 105L board, 4.9 and 900cm2 foil from about 11 knots up (side,on & offshore, used to be 10 knots, but I was only 190lbs back then), often grab my 92L in 14+ (side or onshore). You really dont need much more, but ofcourse its comfortable. The trick is to be quick and dirty about pulling up the sail, as soon as there's pressure you can keep standing. The foilboards with the short nose really help me with this, I have a lot more trouble uphauling my 107L slalomboard for example, as the volume is way more evenly distributed. Also, I practically dont drop the sail or stop flying once I'm up, so its not much of an issue. If you're slogging about a lot I'd definately get a larger board just for comfort.

WhiteofHeart, I appreciate your input here so much because you are a highly skilled sailor that races and freerides. You are a priceless resource for us all. Of course you can uphaul a 105L board at 205lbs, you rock!

My ponit is beginer to intermediate riders or heavy riders sailing in crappy conditions should add some liters to these rules of thumb.

My hat is off to all those that have the wind and the skills to ride the tiny gear, Respect!

My numbers are based on being clumsy with poor balance on a board with regular volume distribution.
Basically take the opposite skillset to WhiteofHeart and you have me.
A 105L foil specific board isn't a big problem for me at 90kg.

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segler said..
Weight + 15L requires weight in kg, not pounds like we yanks use.

Americans: Weight/2.2 + 15L, plus a bit for "utcminusfour" allowance

I bought the SS FS 115 -- good thing! A FS 87 would seldom get used where I am -- too little wind and not many good wind days for something this small. I can slog on the FS 115 while waiting for a gust, which makes have a board of this volume for my weight viable. I can uphaul the 115 without too much trouble -- waterstarting often isn't possible since the wind I sail in just isn't strong enough or you would have to wait several minutes for a good enough gust. If waterstarting was a given then maybe something like the 87 would be in the cards.

I also have the Levitator 150, which seems like an ocean liner in comparison.

The FS 115 is a lot of fun since it is very responsive, especially to shifting weight through the hips. It carries a 6.0 metre sail with easy.

For the really light stuff I'll be on the Levitator and for everything else the 115. With the 115 if the wind dies I can get home.