So managed to get in the water yesterday - i have to admit i find it hard to maintain a comfortable elevation - felt way too high and then over foiled many times.

Im 87kg - my 15 yr old son is 75kg (and was way way more comfortable than me - seemed to dial in super quick)
We were using 5.7m Blade...and mast in the SS "Position" B on the 90cm mast.
We put the pedestal within 1 inch of the rear
Wind was too light light and gusty....then got up in the end to the extent i was super powered on Futura 124 + 7.5NCX (Force 5) and then i couldnt keep the foil in the water

Some newby questions / observations - please feedback if you have insights (or used this board/ foil combo):
1. I tried it in Position B - at almost at the rear of the foil track...but i felt it still had too much lift a lot of the time - so i will move it to the very rear (about another 1 inch back) next time. Does anyone use position A as an alternative? What would this achieve?
2. Front Footstraps were all the way fwd - and still at times i felt i couldnt get enough toe pressure to maintain control. Back straps were in the middle (i think). Is this a technique rather than set up thing? Should i ignore rear straps for now?
3. Mast foot - i had it in rear which i think is a mistake...i think it needs to be further fwd to help keep lift down / more controlled?

ThanksNorthy

Where are the tracks located on a Hover? On a Slingshot Wizard board, the foil mast is located 7" from the tail. That measurement is to center of the foil mast, to tail. You would use position B with the mast at 7" from the tail.

I think the Hover has the tracks much farther than 7". So get it in the back of the tracks. Use the extra hole in the plate to get it really far back.

Yes, ride without the rear strap the first few sessions while you learn the balance of the foil.

Can't comment on the Hover 122 as I haven't Foiled on one.
The Infinity 76 is an awesome foil and I see no reason it shouldn't be able to pair with the Hover Board.
Foiling is all about balance. The Infinity 76 in B position sits as shown in the photo relative to the foot straps on the SS Wizard 125. In this position the setup is balanced beautifully.
Possibly try to locate your foil in a similar position relative to your foot straps on your Hover Board.
Also remember you are foiling now, not windsurfing. When you windsurf it's possible to sail quite Blackfoot heavy, Not foiling! Your stance, as a beginner, should be more upright and if anything slightly front foot heavy. Think of it as the foil providing lift and your body weight, through your front foot and rig, are pushing against the lift to create balanced flight.
Possibly take the back straps off to encourage the upright stance required
Keen to hear progress reports
Simon

The Naish foil boards have the tracks located much more forward than the Slingshot boards. You'll definitely need to use the A position for the mast. Then still move the pedestal all the way back to the rear of the tracks. If you find that you don't get enough lift, move it forward again.

Moving the mast foot forward can also increase control a bit, but less than moving the foil to the back.

Here's a comparison of the Naish Hover to the Slingshot Wizard 125:


It's not the position of the mount as I thought (I had a different Naish board in mind there) - it's the position of the foot straps and the mast track. The front foot strap is a few cm further back on the Naish, and the mast track is a lot further back. Since the B position works for the Wizard, you'll need to use the A position for the Hover 122, and move the mast base forward. Someone used to a lot of front foot pressure (e.g. freestylers) may be able to get away with just moving the mast foot all the way to the front; but if you're usually freeriding or slalom sailing with lots of back foot pressure, the A position will work better.
The Hover 122 is a bit longer (229 cm) than the 2019 Wizard (198 cm), but the images above should be reasonably close to scale.

Thanks for all the responses - really appreciate them!

Obv one of the key issues will be lack of technique - but i wanted to understand a good starting point.

Seems like i have 2 simple options

Option 1 - keep Position B and mast all the way back - this puts the wing right in between the straps (checked tonight) with the mast under the rear strap
Option 2 - move to position A (its 6 inches back), and then i can move the mast in the board forward - ie i can move it 6 inches so essentially the wing is in same place as above - or less than 6 inches and it will effectively move the wing back even further.

i will try option 2 next time and report back!

CheersNorthy

Mixing n matching always takes tuning.
COE of front wing centered between footstraps.
Mast base just forward of center.
Front straps forward.
Optional rears one hole forward.
Gusts up to 15, 5.5 sail.
Gusts to 18, 5.0 sail.
Gusts to 20, 4.5 sail.
That's a STARTING point.

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LeeD said..
Gusts up to 15, 5.5 sail.
Gusts to 18, 5.0 sail.
Gusts to 20, 4.5 sail.
That's a STARTING point.

Probably for you at less than 150 lb. Northy1 weighs in at > 190 lb, so he'll need more sail. I'm around 195 lb, and have used a 5.0 in 18 mph averages gusting to 25. I'd use a 6.5 for 14 mph averages, which typically means gusts of 18. I can probably go 0.5 m smaller now, after > 20 sessions.

But wind strength in Oz seems a bit different - maybe because it's typically measured with a hand-held meter on shore, instead of fixed meters that are on top of buildings or tall poles. I've always been amazed in how little wind speedsurfers reported to be planing and going fast. Once there, I saw that I usually got going with the same sail size as other guys my weight. Sometimes, I was even as fast as they were .. if we ignore guys like Stretch and Stroppo . What I'm calling 18 mph would probably be roughly equivalent to 13-14 knots in WA.

Rough guide for BEGINNER foiling.
I weigh 160, add a 4/3 full suit that sometimes get wet so add another 6-8 lbs.
One of the better rec foilers here, ducks..360's..90% foiling jibes, weighs 195, add a 4/3 xl wetsuit, and uses a 4.4 when winds gust to 18mph or 16 knots. In gusts to 22, he's on 3.7 with Inf 76 or 84.

I concur with the starting points. What is CRITICAL is to get the front wing center of lift at the midpoint between front and rear footstraps. However you do this (footstraps, fuselage connection points, power plate, slots, whatever) it is critically important. Too far aft, it will not lift. Too far forward, you can't control it.

Then and only then can you play with the sail's mast track position to fine-tune the balance. A starting point of 44 inches in front of the front fin screw is good. Adjust from there.

By the way, measuring the front wing position can be tricky if you have a foil with a raked strut (not 90 deg plumb). My AFS-2 is raked forward, so I had to use some geometry to measure it. I made a youtube a couple years ago about how to do this for a raked strut.

I'm using SS infinity 76 on SS Levitator 150 with typically 4.6 sail, weigh 70 kg.

I'd recommend a few sessions in A position, right back on the tracks just to get used to flying. Gradually shift it forward, then change to B right at the back.

I've found foil almost at the back of the tracks in B, mast back, front straps FWD and no back straps with my set up is perfect. But you've got to play around. 1" of foil movement is huge. If you're uncomfortable it's not right. Set up properly the infinity is super stable and really easy to fly.

So - trying to get the foil in the correct position between the straps as per all advice to feel balanced as a starting point

1. In SS position A....you need the pedestal at the very front of the track:...its still looks like the wing is a little bit back from the middle of strapsAnd the foil mast is in front of the rear straps (does the mast position have any material impact? - its the wing position thats the key)

last week my son & I tried this (our 3rd session) in this position A, and it was good and got some ok rides (getting better!) but still felt like it wasnt balanced... FYI i noticed when my son was flying, the nose of the board was pretty elevated ie board not level...it was super light eg 10kts gusts. What does this mean? i think we need to bring the Sails mast base fwd - the measurement below would bear this out also

2. The other option is in SS position B - now the pedestal has to be right at the very rear

...the mast is now direct under the rear straps*, and the wing is further fwd
Does this look better "on paper" - to me it looks more central:

Someone suggested 44 inches approx. from foil mast to mast foot...and in position B as above thats about 1 inch from the front of the track...in position A its several inches beyond the track:


When we tried this setup in our 2nd flight, it felt like we were over foiled...maybe that was down to our experience - but also we defo didnt have the mast foot so far fwd
PS
*front straps are all way fwd, rear straps are all the way back

Cheers all - all insights appreciated!
Northy

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northy1 said..
FYI i noticed when my son was flying, the nose of the board was pretty elevated ie board not level...it was super light eg 10kts gusts. What does this mean? i think we need to bring the Sails mast base fwd - the measurement below would bear this out also

That's a common sight in very light conditions for beginners. The foil is at a higher angle of attack, which gives it more lift at lower speed. It's a bit light someone learning to plane on a windsurfer, and going slow because he does not flatten out the board. Moving the mast forward may help, but may then require pumping while on the foil to pick up more speed to support a more level flight.

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northy1 said..
2. The other option is in SS position B - now the pedestal has to be right at the very rear

When we tried this setup in our 2nd flight, it felt like we were over foiled...maybe that was down to our experience - but also we defo didnt have the mast foot so far fwd

That option looks more balanced. Moving the mast foot even a couple of centimeters makes a big difference. Try it at the 44 inch position.

Theoretically, you could also move the rear footstrap forward, but the effect would be smaller, and a wider stance can make foiling easier, so I'd try the mast foot positions first.

It's normal to feel over foiled as you start out. You are learning a new position which is staying top of the board rather than leaning back against the sail. Also, as you get more comfortable, you'll be putting more weight on the harness which tames that overfoil feeling.

I've moved back my mast base about 6-8 cm over the last 8 months as I've gotten more comfortable with my relatively powerful wing. When I first got it (I'd already been foiling for 18 months), I thought it was going to shoot me to the moon. One huge advantage of the mast coming back is the board leaps out of the water and on the foil so easily in light winds. I don't have to press hard on the back foot to get it to lift off (the board being nose up is a symptom of that).

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

You don't need to eyeball the wing position for balance when you can accurately measure it.

Since the Slingshot mast is 90 degree straight up and down, this is easy.

The goal is to get the center of lift of the front wing at the midpoint between front and rear footstraps. Too far aft, it won't lift. Too far forward, you can't control it.

Mount the foil to the board. First, you have to locate the position of the leading edge of the mast to the top of the board. For the dual track system measure from the mast leading edge back to the stern of the board, then translate this distance on the top of the board to locate the leading edge on top. Make a mark on a piece of tape.

While upside down measure the distance along the fuselage from the front leading edge of the mast to the center of lift of the wing.

Flip the board upright and measure forward from the front leading edge location. This is the center of lift. It should be at the midpoint between front and rear footstraps.

If the center of lift of the wing is not at the midpoint, adjust with the A, B, and C positions on the switch fuse to get it there. Or adjust the mounting plate to get there. Or adjust the footstraps to get it there. This is really important. You gotta balance the lifting wing to your body.

Then, for a 6.4 sail, set the mast track at about 43" in front of the front leading edge. You will later fine-tune this setting until things work easily.

You can leave off the rear footstraps, but definitely USE the front straps. They will locate your body position relative to the balance point. Your rear feet can hunt for the best position for balance, then you can later install the rear straps at this position.

A couple years ago I made a youtube about this for deep Tuttle. Since your mast is 90 degrees straight up and down, you don't need to use a 90 degree tool like I showed in the youtube.

Segler - yes but what im pointing out is that in A position - thats as far fwd as it will go - and its not that fwd. And in position B thats as far back as it will go and its about in the middle. Those are the 2 choices.

The current Slingshot fuselage has, according to SS, 5 positions. A, B, C, D, and E, in the order of placing the front wing more forward.

Nobody talks about D and E. C is considered the most-forward for the customary windsurf foiling regime.

If you fin you cannot get the front wing to the footstrap midpoint on a board with a deep tuttle finbox, you probably have to use a Power Plate. I use a Power Plate for my ancient formula board that has the stock finbox too far aft for most foils.