Starboard racing fuselage is apparently 115 cm that is significantly longer than the other foils and this was suggested to add stability in foiling. I am using Infinity 84 cm with fuselage of 78 cm (that is still shorter with added foil front piece). As a beginner, I am now able consistently foil but hovering low and high with occasional surface touching. I would like to keep steady height rather than going up and down. I am curious if anyone tried or made a longer fuselage with Hoverglide Infinity set-up (or other brands) to see if extended fuselage is adding more stability.

Are you running the longest mast (95cm)? I find the 84cm wing with long fuselage in the c position is super stable pitch-wise, probably because I started out with the much more skittish H2 wing. I also find with the long mast there's lots of time to lean my weight towards the nose of the board if I feel a breach coming. That said I sail in pretty flat conditions and lighter winds for the most part.

On Naish setup, similar to SS.
Tried the RRD 120 fuse, and it was a bit more stable.
This was at around day 25.
Now at 55 days, I'm stable with Naish and 70 cm mast.
The RRD might have felt stable due to it's 15 cm longer mast, which might have as much or more affect than fuze length.
A long nose on the board should be stable compared to snubbies.

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Windbot said..
Are you running the longest mast (95cm)?

Yes! I am using the longer (90 cm) mast.

Are you finding steady winds?
When it's 12-15 mph, everyone is steady.
When it's 3-21, everyone is up and down.

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SALKAN said..
Starboard racing fuselage is apparently 115 cm that is significantly longer than the other foils and this was suggested to add stability in foiling. I am using Infinity 84 cm with fuselage of 78 cm (that is still shorter with added foil front piece). As a beginner, I am now able consistently foil but hovering low and high with occasional surface touching. I would like to keep steady height rather than going up and down. I am curious if anyone tried or made a longer fuselage with Hoverglide Infinity set-up (or other brands) to see if extended fuselage is adding more stability.

There are three ways to handle pitch stability. The first you mentioned which is a longer fuse. The second is a longer foil mast as a longer foil mast as LeeD mentioned. And the third is a larger stabilizer. I started with a slingshot 42 cm stab and moved to the 48cm stab. It gives a noticeable increase in pitch stability

Yeah I have a starboard GT and it has a very short fuselage but has a large rear stabiliser it is very stable at high speeds when I bought it I was hesitant about it stability but was told it was all good and it didn't let me down my previous foil the rsx convertible has a longer fuselage but it's not quite as nice at top speed this pic shows the GT and the RSX

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lakeeffect said..

SALKAN said..
Starboard racing fuselage is apparently 115 cm that is significantly longer than the other foils and this was suggested to add stability in foiling. I am using Infinity 84 cm with fuselage of 78 cm (that is still shorter with added foil front piece). As a beginner, I am now able consistently foil but hovering low and high with occasional surface touching. I would like to keep steady height rather than going up and down. I am curious if anyone tried or made a longer fuselage with Hoverglide Infinity set-up (or other brands) to see if extended fuselage is adding more stability.

There are three ways to handle pitch stability. The first you mentioned which is a longer fuse. The second is a longer foil mast as a longer foil mast as LeeD mentioned. And the third is a larger stabilizer. I started with a slingshot 42 cm stab and moved to the 48cm stab. It gives a noticeable increase in pitch stability

The 3 points outlined by Lakeeffect are good ones. A few more pros and cons.

Longer Fuse: Modifies the moment arm (due to the length of where the stab is) and reduces fast pitch changes.
Pros: Big help with pitch stability with faster water speeds. Works better with high aspect foils. Allows similar input on pitch control in a wide range of water speeds.
Cons: Maneuverability. Not as easy to pitch when trying to take off.

Stab size: Defines the resistance (foot pressure) needed to make pitch adjustments.
Pros: Helps with stability when you don't have a longer fuse
Cons: Adds drag. Water speed dependent. The faster you go, the more difficult it is to provide input.

Foil Mast: Adds resistance to pitch issues due to the added length & weight when changing pitch
Pros: Adds stability, but not as much as fuse or stab will. Reduces breaching issues.
Cons: Adds drag. Breaching can be harder to control due to height. Harder impacts with crashing.

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SALKAN said..
Starboard racing fuselage is apparently 115 cm that is significantly longer than the other foils and this was suggested to add stability in foiling. I am using Infinity 84 cm with fuselage of 78 cm (that is still shorter with added foil front piece). As a beginner, I am now able consistently foil but hovering low and high with occasional surface touching. I would like to keep steady height rather than going up and down. I am curious if anyone tried or made a longer fuselage with Hoverglide Infinity set-up (or other brands) to see if extended fuselage is adding more stability.

The fuselage of my new Moses Freeride is significantly longer at 90 cm. It can be used with the Moses 873, 790, (light wind/waves/freestyle) and 720 (the fast freestyle/freerace one). The Moses race fuselage is 115. I used the Freeride twice (wind is going away over here) with the 105 mast and 790 wing, it feels ultra stable even for the beginner me.

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duzzi said..

SALKAN said..
Starboard racing fuselage is apparently 115 cm that is significantly longer than the other foils and this was suggested to add stability in foiling. I am using Infinity 84 cm with fuselage of 78 cm (that is still shorter with added foil front piece). As a beginner, I am now able consistently foil but hovering low and high with occasional surface touching. I would like to keep steady height rather than going up and down. I am curious if anyone tried or made a longer fuselage with Hoverglide Infinity set-up (or other brands) to see if extended fuselage is adding more stability.

The fuselage of my new Moses Freeride is significantly longer at 90 cm. It can be used with the Moses 873, 790, (light wind/waves/freestyle) and 720 (the fast freestyle/freerace one). The Moses race fuselage is 115. I used the Freeride twice (wind is going away over here) with the 105 mast and 790 wing, it feels ultra stable even for the beginner me.

So what is the total length with the wing on (from the tip of the wing to the rear edge of the stabilizer)?

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sl55 said..

duzzi said..

SALKAN said..
Starboard racing fuselage is apparently 115 cm that is significantly longer than the other foils and this was suggested to add stability in foiling. I am using Infinity 84 cm with fuselage of 78 cm (that is still shorter with added foil front piece). As a beginner, I am now able consistently foil but hovering low and high with occasional surface touching. I would like to keep steady height rather than going up and down. I am curious if anyone tried or made a longer fuselage with Hoverglide Infinity set-up (or other brands) to see if extended fuselage is adding more stability.

The fuselage of my new Moses Freeride is significantly longer at 90 cm. It can be used with the Moses 873, 790, (light wind/waves/freestyle) and 720 (the fast freestyle/freerace one). The Moses race fuselage is 115. I used the Freeride twice (wind is going away over here) with the 105 mast and 790 wing, it feels ultra stable even for the beginner me.

So what is the total length with the wing on (from the tip of the wing to the rear edge of the stabilizer)?

Bit more than 90 cm, call it 91. Rear wings reach just at the ends of the fuselage, the front goes just a little bit forward. Bit hard to compare with the Slingshot 78cm switch fuselage. Besides the switch thing, with the Slingshot the front wing gets inserted on the fuselage, and the back wing is recessed about 5cm from the end of it.

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Bit more than 90 cm, call it 91. Rear wings reach just at the ends of the fuselage, the front goes just a little bit forward. Bit hard to compare with the Slingshot 78cm switch fuselage. Besides the switch thing, with the Slingshot the front wing gets inserted on the fuselage, and the back wing is recessed about 5cm from the end of it.

duzzi said..

So what is the total length with the wing on (from the tip of the wing to the rear edge of the stabilizer)?

If I recall correctly, in another foiling discussion, someone else said that i84 total length from foil front tip to the end is 99 cm with 78 cm fuselage. Both Moses and i84 are shorter than Starboard race of 115 cm fuselage.

I have no idea why the photo is upside down. Total length is 90cm.

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sl55 said..



I have no idea why the photo is upside down. Total length is 90cm.

Infinity 84 is definitely not 99 cm based on this picture but may be 1 inch could be added for the tail portion. For sure Moses and Slingshot foils are shorter. I wish I had workshop to make my own fuselage to test a longer fuselage. Slingshot W Miller said that longer fuselage is not good for turning that makes sense.

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sl55 said..
I have no idea why the photo is upside down. Total length is 90cm.

wrong hemisphere

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SALKAN said..

Bit more than 90 cm, call it 91. Rear wings reach just at the ends of the fuselage, the front goes just a little bit forward. Bit hard to compare with the Slingshot 78cm switch fuselage. Besides the switch thing, with the Slingshot the front wing gets inserted on the fuselage, and the back wing is recessed about 5cm from the end of it.

duzzi said..

So what is the total length with the wing on (from the tip of the wing to the rear edge of the stabilizer)?

If I recall correctly, in another foiling discussion, someone else said that i84 total length from foil front tip to the end is 99 cm with 78 cm fuselage. Both Moses and i84 are shorter than Starboard race of 115 cm fuselage.

Depends on what fuselage you use, Moses has a 115 fuselage in the lineup

On their website Sailworks shows that the Moses 105 Race has a fuselage of 110 cm. Bruce P uses this foil most of the time. The PWA list also shows 110 cm.

The Starboard Race fuselage is 115 cm.

The Moses website does not give a fuselage length in their specs for the 105 Race.

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segler said..
On their website Sailworks shows that the Moses 105 Race has a fuselage of 110 cm. Bruce P uses this foil most of the time. The PWA list also shows 110 cm.

The Starboard Race fuselage is 115 cm.

The Moses website does not give a fuselage length in their specs for the 105 Race.

Yes, sorry I remembered wrong by 5cm. moseshydrofoil.com/products/wind-fuselage-1100 (seems out of stock right now)

Seems with long fuz, the front wing is moved forward and you get more response and more of the same instability problem.
Possibly just more Time On Water is the best cure.

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LeeD said..
Seems with long fuz, the front wing is moved forward and you get more response and more of the same instability problem.
Possibly just more Time On Water is the best cure.

Front wing forward = more stability if you know how to use it. Very simply put, you stret h out all the forces over a wider distance.

For a low aspect wing like the SS you don't want such a long fuse, the wing is already stable enough, you can also "overblock" the foil so to speak, making it hard to adapt to different water states and just generally getting a foil which does no longer do what you want it to (because it is so slow to react).

Besides, how easy do you want it to be? Last week I had a foil clinic, and within 35 minutes the guy was up and flying entire legs stably with the 2018 pryde AL foil, which is one of the least stable foils on the market. Only thing I did was setup his board correctly, gave him the right size sail (he had to pump his ass off) and told him to not force the foil into the air, but wait till it lifted out of its own with enough speed, and there he went.. I think TOW as a regular windsurfer is still one of the major factors in getting to steadily windfoil. Way more major than fuselage length.

Especially if you already can steadily fly, dont look for the answers in your equipment, just make sure you're out on the water 3+ times a week if possible and you'll be an expert in no time!

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WhiteofHeart said..

LeeD said..
Seems with long fuz, the front wing is moved forward and you get more response and more of the same instability problem.
Possibly just more Time On Water is the best cure.

Front wing forward = more stability if you know how to use it. Very simply put, you stret h out all the forces over a wider distance.

For a low aspect wing like the SS you don't want such a long fuse, the wing is already stable enough, you can also "overblock" the foil so to speak, making it hard to adapt to different water states and just generally getting a foil which does no longer do what you want it to (because it is so slow to react).

Besides, how easy do you want it to be? Last week I had a foil clinic, and within 35 minutes the guy was up and flying entire legs stably with the 2018 pryde AL foil, which is one of the least stable foils on the market. Only thing I did was setup his board correctly, gave him the right size sail (he had to pump his ass off) and told him to not force the foil into the air, but wait till it lifted out of its own with enough speed, and there he went.. I think TOW as a regular windsurfer is still one of the major factors in getting to steadily windfoil. Way more major than fuselage length.

Especially if you already can steadily fly, dont look for the answers in your equipment, just make sure you're out on the water 3+ times a week if possible and you'll be an expert in no time!

Good to know that TOW is the major factor! What do you mean by it?

TOW.... time on water...crucial.

We must now rename it: TOF time on foil.

Also, Bruce Peterson told me that on the Moses Race 105 with the 110 cm fuselage, the front wing is the same distance from the strut as that of free-ride foils. This is unlike the Starboard Race, where the front wing is noticeably further forward of the strut.

All this geometry is very interesting. I will find out next week. I had a Moses 105 Race delivered to my snowbird place in Florida, where I have a formula board and big sails to try this on. Looking forward.

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segler said..
We must now rename it: TOF time on foil.

Wow! that was useful advise here's another one: practice makes perfect.

The SB fuselage lenght is to allow huge sails and it gets pretty miserable under 7.0 apparently, I don't think Moses is chasing the same market.

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Grantmac said..
The SB fuselage lenght is to allow huge sails and it gets pretty miserable under 7.0 apparently, I don't think Moses is chasing the same market.

That is an interesting perspective. If the longer fuselage performs poorly, I rather stick with a shorter fuselage and go to large foil wings to keep a small sail as a recreational foiler.

Question becomes....do you want to foil at rec freeride speeds or is being the slowest in the water acceptable?
A hi aspect 6-800 sq cm foil goes pretty fast.

The sensation of speed is in the beholder. theres a whole world of carving sensation out there that can feel fast or slow and make even flat water fun for carving bottom and top type turns that are pure fun and gives a satisfaction in the achievement.
translate that to a swell at nice angle to wind, and it's heaven.
now if only I can get out back with some reserve energy left.

Here, it's comparable. We have a sailing club just upwind, mostly beginners with a few decent.
Rec foils are the slowest except for dinghys.
Course slalom foils sail almost right angles to everyone else.
It's easy to see who's slow and who's not.

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LeeD said..
TOW.... time on water...crucial.

Rum all around. You won the internet today.