Just curious- I am fairly new to foiling but I have found that I never use my harness while foiling. I can be out there for hours and my arms never get tired - the sail pressure is just so light.

During regular windsurfing I am always in the harness or my arms would explode.

What are the benefits to using a harness while foiling?

Thanks

you can lean back - i think if you are performing a more "Race-technique" oriented style/material/sailsize it's more conveniant or even a must.

One possible benefit to the harness (other than arm fatigue which you are not experiencing) is that it probably increases the amount of mast foot pressure your have, allowing you to have the foil more forward, but if you are not having lots breaches and can gybe sometimes, then your set up is balanced without it.

As mentioned before, mast base pressure is a big plus. More importantly, I find I can be more consistent with the mast base pressure on windy, gusty days where the pressure on the sail varies. Without the harness, I get jerked around more and it's more difficult to keep steady flight.

Going hard upwind is more difficult without a harness as well. It requires a bit more muscle and you being out to really grind it upwind. I have a friend much like you who gets by mostly without a harness. We tried a race together and he found going upwind in a race a whole different game than what he thought going upwind was. He was already disadvantaged not having racier gear but he struggled to stay sheeted in all the way to drive upwind even remotely like everyone else was. (I'm not saying freeride gear won't go upwind but if everyone else is making 5-10 degrees higher than you, it becomes obvious pretty quickly.)

You don't have to have a harness which is what makes foiling such a great gateway from non-planing to planing/foiling conditions. But it will give you more flexibility to handle varying wind and explore more upwind and downwind. Try it a bit and see how it goes. No requirement to stay hooked in all the time.

Edit: Having a harness means it's easier to wave at people as you glide by and for photos.

I am much more stable and make way better VMG upwind in the harness.

For freeride foiling on mostly beam-ish reaches with small sails and inboard stance, I also rarely use my harness. Not needed.

That said, when I do hook in, the mast base pressure is much more consistent. This greatly quiets the up and down pitching of the board over the foil.

For race foiling on a wide board with feet out on the rails and a big sail, you pretty much must use a harness since you are more hiked out and you are feeling much higher sail pressure.

Robby Naish touts freeride windfoiling with no harness or footstraps at all. Just go out and foil. Enjoy life. Keep it simple.

Im preetty much with Paducah and segler both on this one. For racing or long straights its nice, but when freeriding I'm often not in the harness, especially when linking jibes and such. I do notice i dont have it though if i forget when freeriding (which happens). I very often and very quickly hook in and out even for small periods of time just because I can.

Another important reason you want your harness, linked with the mastfoot preassure bit, is that you need it to extend yourself away from your sail and use the power at maximal efficincy, for example in light winds (or if you're a racer to push maximum angle).

I wore my harness one time. Probably my first or second time out. Climbing on the board after a fall was causing dimples and depressions in the deck of my board. So I haven't used a harness since then.

Yesterday in 6-17 mph breezes, found I was hooking in at the end of pumping, before I was thinking of straps.
While I was moving feetback.

I had quite a few beginners out on my Demo gear here and always advice not to use the harness the first times around.

With the right set up with a lifty foil and smaller sail + a easy board that you can still uphaul on, there should be no problem holding the sail without the harness and just focus on the foil trim and how things works.

I did sessions myself with no harness in the start, but after some time it is nice to use the harness, for a little break or going back upwind. Also after a while it is no problem to foil pretty powered up, and then you defiantly need the harness.

For our down wind session, riding rolling swell etc, we would be 90% out of the harness carving downwind, but yes using it to get back upwind.

No straps can work for the beginner stage. It just depending on what boards is used as well.
If you got the board with footstrap position further on the inside of the board, then it should be no problem to teach beginners with using the front strap (but not the back strap). The front strap position ensure they have it the right place and the back foot they can place where they fell comfortable.

Straps on the outside near the rail on the board , is defiantly harder and no straps would be better for beginners

How easy is it to go upwinds with a windfoil versus classic funboard windsurfing where you dont have a dagger board? I heard that it should be 'easier', but how to define that? Aka, if we on a funboard can go like 15-18 degrees up against the wind, how much can you then go up against the wind on a windfoil when in fly mode please? And is that then not the position where using the trapez/harness is most valuable?

How are you getting on your foil board with a harness on after a fall? Water start? I made several dimples in my Fanatic Falcon light wind with a harness on (I should have never worn it because I didn't and still don't use it). My Slingshot Levitator seems even more fragile than the Fanatic so I feel I will never be able to use one.

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Cyber said..
How easy is it to go upwinds with a windfoil versus classic funboard windsurfing where you dont have a dagger board? I heard that it should be 'easier', but how to define that? Aka, if we on a funboard can go like 15-18 degrees up against the wind, how much can you then go up against the wind on a windfoil when in fly mode please? And is that then not the position where using the trapez/harness is most valuable?

Even the least efficient foils will still easily point within 45 degrees of the true wind and make good speed. There is no comparison to a shortboard and the VMG is much higher than a raceboard unless you can't get flying.
I get much better upwind angles using the harness.

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excav8ter said..
How are you getting on your foil board with a harness on after a fall? Water start? I made several dimples in my Fanatic Falcon light wind with a harness on (I should have never worn it because I didn't and still don't use it). My Slingshot Levitator seems even more fragile than the Fanatic so I feel I will never be able to use one.

Ufgh, good point excav8tor!

Didnt think about that at all, as have only done waterstarts for the last 30 years. Didnt even own an uphaul line, so just invested in some from Dakine now for this windfoil venture! ;o)
From what I understand, then you will not even have enough wind to waterstart with when windfoiling, as you then in principle would be over-powered with your sail size when getting up onto flying. So expected to have to swim hard up and use the arms to push myself up again onto the board. But yeah, that bloody harness hook will be scraping the side and top of board near every single time. For the extreme windsurfing I always used a below-hip/set trapez, but was advised to get a chest trapez for the windfoiling, as posture is supposed to be more upright and that you do not hang as much in the sail as you do when windsurfing. Having the trapez hook those 30 cm higher up on the chest trapez should also help I guess to get up onto the foil board with less damage to it I guess?

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Grantmac said..

Cyber said..
How easy is it to go upwinds with a windfoil versus classic funboard windsurfing where you dont have a dagger board? I heard that it should be 'easier', but how to define that? Aka, if we on a funboard can go like 15-18 degrees up against the wind, how much can you then go up against the wind on a windfoil when in fly mode please? And is that then not the position where using the trapez/harness is most valuable?

Even the least efficient foils will still easily point within 45 degrees of the true wind and make good speed. There is no comparison to a shortboard and the VMG is much higher than a raceboard unless you can't get flying.
I get much better upwind angles using the harness.

Thank you Grantmac, that sounds fantastic!
So no permanent struggle then to keep height up towards the wind then when windfoiling, which otherwise could be a struggle, when out on the small sinkers/funboards in windsurfing if the wind was borderline for you to keep planning speed in.
45 degrees sound totally wild, so look forward to experiencing that !

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Cyber said..

excav8ter said..
How are you getting on your foil board with a harness on after a fall? Water start? I made several dimples in my Fanatic Falcon light wind with a harness on (I should have never worn it because I didn't and still don't use it). My Slingshot Levitator seems even more fragile than the Fanatic so I feel I will never be able to use one.

Ufgh, good point excav8tor!

Didnt think about that at all, as have only done waterstarts for the last 30 years. Didnt even own an uphaul line, so just invested in some from Dakine now for this windfoil venture! ;o)
From what I understand, then you will not even have enough wind to waterstart with when windfoiling, as you then in principle would be over-powered with your sail size when getting up onto flying. So expected to have to swim hard up and use the arms to push myself up again onto the board. But yeah, that bloody harness hook will be scraping the side and top of board near every single time. For the extreme windsurfing I always used a below-hip/set trapez, but was advised to get a chest trapez for the windfoiling, as posture is supposed to be more upright and that you do not hang as much in the sail as you do when windsurfing. Having the trapez hook those 30 cm higher up on the chest trapez should also help I guess to get up onto the foil board with less damage to it I guess?

It sounds like you'll be fine waterstarting once you're past the very first learning stage. It's true that you can foil on sails too small to waterstart but it's not true that if you use a bigger sail you'll automatically be overpowered once on foil. Today I was on a 6.4 when the guys on fins were on 6.0-7.5 and I was well-powered but not getting blown off the water once I was up. Only in the harness for going high upwind today, which was a riot! The skilled guys (I'm not one of them) were on tiny foil boards and 4.2-4.8 and were either waterstarting or uphauling knee-deep.

Being able to just waterstart is about perfect in my experience. Especially if you have a good low wind waterstart technique.

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Grantmac said..
Being able to just waterstart is about perfect in my experience. Especially if you have a good low wind waterstart technique.

Yeah from my old days on 70 liter windsurfer sinkers, then my waterstart technique is pretty decent, as have many times ending up out in the wild open ocean and the wind suddenly dropping quick by end of day. So know well how to sneak up onto the board, like stomach on board and bent knees. With the thick back-end of the Levitator board, then it should be fairly simply to get a luff of wind in under, when placing the boom head onto there! Though in those light wind conditions, it might as well be as easy just to crawl up and do the uphaul direct?

With my progressed age, I might not be as flexible and energetic anymore when down in the water to start again, as in my younger past? Also I understand the foil wing is not a great thing to kick with your legs and feet when swimming around next to your windfoil gear?

The only time I went without a harness was my first day at the advice of the person who's gear I was using. He probably didn't want harness hook marks on his board's rails. This has never been anything close to an issue for me though. I have never been out on the water an hour into a session and wished I didn't have my harness, that's for sure. As others have said upwind sailing is so much easier with a harness. That, and my arms just get tired without the harness. Sometimes though if I'm way over powered I'll come out of the harness to really flag the sail, this is super-counterintuitive coming from fin sailing. I suspect that draggier foils put more load on the arms and mine certainly qualifies as one.

If I decide to go with a chest harness, can anyone point me to a good one?

I've been looking for a old DaKine Chest harness of over a year. The only ones that I've found are smalls. Is there a market for freeriding foiling harness? I think so

I need a xl if you have one let's talk

Had a great session yesterday. Starting to get the hang of it. Wish I goprode it. I can't imagine not using a harness. My arms would be dead out their otherwise. I was out in 10-14 mph winds yesterday with my 6.8 Ezzy Zeta on the 130L Dialer. Felt perfectly powered up. When the wind hit 14, I became over powered, unhooked out of the harness and leaned forward to compensate. This was my first good foil with consistent wind. I felt super comfortable hooked in when on foil. I am not using foot straps so I feel safer hooked in. I did get bucked off once this session, not sure how it happend, since it occurred so fast, but I think I overfoiled due to a gust. When I hit water, my board started drifting fast. Had to swim after it. I almost couldn't swim fast enough to catch it.

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Gwarn said..
I've been looking for a old DaKine Chest harness of over a year. The only ones that I've found are smalls. Is there a market for freeriding foiling harness? I think so

I need a xl if you have one let's talk

What are the pros of a chest harness that apply to foiling?

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Gwarn said..
I've been looking for a old DaKine Chest harness of over a year. The only ones that I've found are smalls. Is there a market for freeriding foiling harness? I think so

I need a xl if you have one let's talk

www.ebay.com/itm/DaKine-T7-windsurfing-waist-Harness-sulpher-extra-large/223700500298?hash=item341596bf4a:g:HWQAAOSwN4Fdn4Ms

Dakine also have a $5 harness extension:
www.nbwindsurfing.com/shop/Windsurf/Windsurf-Accessories/Harnesses/p/DaKine-Power-Belt-Extender-x16498418.htm

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excav8ter said..
How are you getting on your foil board with a harness on after a fall? Water start? I made several dimples in my Fanatic Falcon light wind with a harness on (I should have never worn it because I didn't and still don't use it). My Slingshot Levitator seems even more fragile than the Fanatic so I feel I will never be able to use one.

There is a technique to getting on the board wearing a harness , it's a matter of thrusting out your hips as you pull yourself up.

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choco said..

excav8ter said..
How are you getting on your foil board with a harness on after a fall? Water start? I made several dimples in my Fanatic Falcon light wind with a harness on (I should have never worn it because I didn't and still don't use it). My Slingshot Levitator seems even more fragile than the Fanatic so I feel I will never be able to use one.

There is a technique to getting on the board wearing a harness , it's a matter of thrusting out your hips as you pull yourself up.

Always wondered by how difficult people can make certain things. Its as simple as "climb on your board wothout your hook coming close to the board", I think I just push up and put my knee on my board but wouldnt know as its not something I've ever had to practice.

Sometimes I see people reanacting seals in trouble while climbing on their board, but that honestly takes more strength than just pushing up and getting up on your knees straight away.

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WhiteofHeart said..

choco said..

excav8ter said..
How are you getting on your foil board with a harness on after a fall? Water start? I made several dimples in my Fanatic Falcon light wind with a harness on (I should have never worn it because I didn't and still don't use it). My Slingshot Levitator seems even more fragile than the Fanatic so I feel I will never be able to use one.

There is a technique to getting on the board wearing a harness , it's a matter of thrusting out your hips as you pull yourself up.

Always wondered by how difficult people can make certain things. Its as simple as "climb on your board wothout your hook coming close to the board", I think I just push up and put my knee on my board but wouldnt know as its not something I've ever had to practice.

Sometimes I see people reanacting seals in trouble while climbing on their board, but that honestly takes more strength than just pushing up and getting up on your knees straight away.

I have short arms (and legs - I look more like a penguin rather than a seal scrambling up on the board. Yes, I am very mindful of the hook and like you, push hard with my arms to get on. Even for us penguins, it works.

Yep! I push up and out onto the board and don't let my chest and stomach touch the board when I climbe on. Then the harness hook clears the board without rubbing or digging the deck and rails.

Back in the 90's I had on the these DaKine chest harness thinking back on It I feel that it would work well for my style. The lose fit allowing more movement inside the harness and the hook to move more freely. I use the DaKine T7 now and I like but feel it is over built for my freeride style. As to climbing onto the board I just waterstart.

Tip #5 Ultimate light wind start. Only if you can fly the sail.

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If you alter the height of the hook, the harness lines may require a different length.