I was out today. The wind was just crap all afternoon! It would blow 10, then 15 then drop to zero in a matter of almost one minute and repeat itself over and over. My optimism was killing me. Was cursing at the wind constantly. Finally went in and said forget this! I got on foil once then the gust took over and that ended real quick. Can the conditions ever be too crapy to even consider rigging?

I think every since I've been out foiling, I've been in somewhat of an unrealistic fantasy mode, thinking any wind 10 mph plus will get me foiling, regardless how gusty the winds are. Reality seems to be kicking in now.

The best conditions seem to me to be "Smooth as and slightly less wind than I want".

I learn more by staying upright.

I have had two sessions in very strong/gusty wind. The one with flat water was good fun. The session with lots of windswell was not so much.

It is great how the foil can get you through wind holes, and as the foil has a top speed you do really get out of control and blow up in the gusts, like on a finned board, as long as you can prevent over foiling.

I think gusty conditions are better if you have your board set up in a manner that allows you to prevent breaches just by weighting the front foot. Although I am still wrapping my head around all of the variables in kit set up, I think the ability to prevent breaching, by simply weighting the front foot, is significantly improved by having inboard straps and a shorter front strap to mast base distance.

Rule of thumb (for foiling):
Rigg comfortable for the gusts.
Fly through the lulls.

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thedoor said..
I have had two sessions in very strong/gusty wind. The one with flat water was good fun. The session with lots of windswell was not so much.

It is great how the foil can get you through wind holes, and as the foil has a top speed you do really get out of control and blow up in the gusts, like on a finned board, as long as you can prevent over foiling.

I think gusty conditions are better if you have your board set up in a manner that allows you to prevent breaches just by weighting the front foot. Although I am still wrapping my head around all of the variables in kit set up, I think the ability to prevent breaching, by simply weighting the front foot, is significantly improved by having inboard straps and a shorter front strap to mast base distance.

Yeah, I'm just going to wait for some consistent winds. I have no experience with wanting to foil in gusts.

Also, when I'm up on foil, there are times when the boards wants to lean over to windward and dump me off in the water. Can't figure why the board is doing that. I think I'm keeping my weight over the board. I'm not going very fast when that happens. Am I getting close to the stall speed when it gets tippy? Perhaps it's the gusts? I know the i84 wants to fly very early in board speed, so I keep the nose down until I start to pre plane, then I move back and it lifts.

During the spring and fall season of fronts blowing through the gorge, the wind can be impossible to foil. You see razor-sharp gusts of 5-45 mph. All you can do is come in and cuss the wind. Done it many times.

Yes, the mountain lee-side lakes get this, too. Your Klamath, Odell, Suttle, Rimrock, and Wenatchee can also be super gusty at times. During the summer when the lakes (and the gorge) get their winds from thermal pressure gradients, the winds are much nicer.

Just did a 5-35kt session last weekend on my formula + starboard GTR combo, mind you I'm still learning, it was my 5th time out.Felt like a wild rodeo ride, did not enjoy it one bit. The intervals were 5 seconds of Hold on to dear life followed by schlogging around fearing the next gust. These are not conditions suitable for any kind of sailing no matter the kit you're on.

If rigging for the gusts doesn't work, it's better to pack up and go home. Not everyday is meant to be. No one is paying me to windsurf so it better be fun. If I want to be miserable, I'll just stay at work and at least get paid for my troubles.

The WNW, NW, and NNW winds are the only decent winds on Klamath Lake. I've only been foiling so far on the gusty SW and west winds. Time to wait for the right direction.

We foil constantly is super gusty winds, last weekend it was 5 gusting 35 mph! very rare do we have a 5 mph spread on any given day.

In the beginning its tough because you are still learning equipment, how to foil rig, stance, pumping and timing
so its better to wait for 10-15 or 10-20.

Once you get a solid year of foiling you can push the 5-15 crapola and have fun.

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CoreAS said..
We foil constantly is super gusty winds, last weekend it was 5 gusting 35 mph! very rare do we have a 5 mph spread on any given day.

In the beginning its tough because you are still learning equipment, how to foil rig, stance, pumping and timing
so its better to wait for 10-15 or 10-20.

Once you get a solid year of foiling you can push the 5-15 crapola and have fun.

Yeah, the consistent winds will be my friend for now. But what's with the side to side tipping of the board? It kind of wants to do that at times. I try to correct it, but the board seems to have its own agenda when it's in tippy mode.

Always tippy in super up and down winds.
Should be stable in even wind correctly powered.
Just like wsfing, it's not stable when under and overpowered winds.

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MagicRide said..

thedoor said..
I have had two sessions in very strong/gusty wind. The one with flat water was good fun. The session with lots of windswell was not so much.

It is great how the foil can get you through wind holes, and as the foil has a top speed you do really get out of control and blow up in the gusts, like on a finned board, as long as you can prevent over foiling.

I think gusty conditions are better if you have your board set up in a manner that allows you to prevent breaches just by weighting the front foot. Although I am still wrapping my head around all of the variables in kit set up, I think the ability to prevent breaching, by simply weighting the front foot, is significantly improved by having inboard straps and a shorter front strap to mast base distance.

Yeah, I'm just going to wait for some consistent winds. I have no experience with wanting to foil in gusts.

Also, when I'm up on foil, there are times when the boards wants to lean over to windward and dump me off in the water. Can't figure why the board is doing that. I think I'm keeping my weight over the board. I'm not going very fast when that happens. Am I getting close to the stall speed when it gets tippy? Perhaps it's the gusts? I know the i84 wants to fly very early in board speed, so I keep the nose down until I start to pre plane, then I move back and it lifts.

Is it like what happens when you get overpowered on the longboard with the centre board down? My board would rail to leeward, same thing used to happen if my fin was way too big on my slalom board

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MagicRide said..

Yeah, the consistent winds will be my friend for now. But what's with the side to side tipping of the board? It kind of wants to do that at times. I try to correct it, but the board seems to have its own agenda when it's in tippy mode.

Is your back foot on or near the centerline? How high are you off the water? What size mast are you using?

Magicride,

Feel for you.

I had "super tippy" when first learning and when it was very gusty. Tipping to windward is scary enough, however tipping to leeward with body hanging to windward was much worse. The foil tips get real close (was on the NP Pinkie then, and those tips are sharp), and feet can get trapped in footstraps (only had front straps then) it's a good thing to not be in straps when this happens, maybe stay out of harness as well when learning in gusty conditons. A few times went over the point of no return, got some foil scratches and cuts!
So take care, wear booties, wetsuit and/or armour, also I can see how a knee or ankle can get wrenched.
Have not had this tippiness for some time now, so maybe have improved balance, foot placement and reactivity to gusts, i.e. sheet out and turn upwind instead of grip on for dear life.
As well changed to the i84 foil (which you already have) as it is much more learner friendly than the Pinkie.

My lake is gusty and short distance between turns so I am still not using harness.

As others wrote, don't go out if it's ugly. Wish you many 12-17 days for learning.

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Paducah said..

MagicRide said..

Yeah, the consistent winds will be my friend for now. But what's with the side to side tipping of the board? It kind of wants to do that at times. I try to correct it, but the board seems to have its own agenda when it's in tippy mode.

Is your back foot on or near the centerline? How high are you off the water? What size mast are you using?

When I'm on foil, my back foot is usually over or a little in front of the mast. I'm using the 90 cm mast. I Have no problem getting enough speed to get on foil. It usually seems to get tippy when I'm one foot or so off the water right after take off. When I'm 2-2.5 feet above the water it seems more stable for some reason.

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thedoor said..

MagicRide said..

thedoor said..
I have had two sessions in very strong/gusty wind. The one with flat water was good fun. The session with lots of windswell was not so much.

It is great how the foil can get you through wind holes, and as the foil has a top speed you do really get out of control and blow up in the gusts, like on a finned board, as long as you can prevent over foiling.

I think gusty conditions are better if you have your board set up in a manner that allows you to prevent breaches just by weighting the front foot. Although I am still wrapping my head around all of the variables in kit set up, I think the ability to prevent breaching, by simply weighting the front foot, is significantly improved by having inboard straps and a shorter front strap to mast base distance.

Yeah, I'm just going to wait for some consistent winds. I have no experience with wanting to foil in gusts.

Also, when I'm up on foil, there are times when the boards wants to lean over to windward and dump me off in the water. Can't figure why the board is doing that. I think I'm keeping my weight over the board. I'm not going very fast when that happens. Am I getting close to the stall speed when it gets tippy? Perhaps it's the gusts? I know the i84 wants to fly very early in board speed, so I keep the nose down until I start to pre plane, then I move back and it lifts.

Is it like what happens when you get overpowered on the longboard with the centre board down? My board would rail to leeward, same thing used to happen if my fin was way too big on my slalom board

When I'm too over powered on my fin board, it just wants to rail up, like doing a wheelie.

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oscardog said..
Magicride,

Feel for you.

I had "super tippy" when first learning and when it was very gusty. Tipping to windward is scary enough, however tipping to leeward with body hanging to windward was much worse. The foil tips get real close (was on the NP Pinkie then, and those tips are sharp), and feet can get trapped in footstraps (only had front straps then) it's a good thing to not be in straps when this happens, maybe stay out of harness as well when learning in gusty conditons. A few times went over the point of no return, got some foil scratches and cuts!
So take care, wear booties, wetsuit and/or armour, also I can see how a knee or ankle can get wrenched.
Have not had this tippiness for some time now, so maybe have improved balance, foot placement and reactivity to gusts, i.e. sheet out and turn upwind instead of grip on for dear life.
As well changed to the i84 foil (which you already have) as it is much more learner friendly than the Pinkie.

My lake is gusty and short distance between turns so I am still not using harness.

As others wrote, don't go out if it's ugly. Wish you many 12-17 days for learning.

Nice to know others experience some of these things too. No footstraps on my board. When it gets tippy, and falls off foil leaning almost vertically side ways until it hits the water, my feet are still pressed up against the board as I hold the boom, bracing for impact until the me and board hit the water. I wear the harness which helps when I'm not on foil and want to rest my arms. I also find it helpful to keep harnessed in as I pump and start planing, then I unhook, step back more on the board in the sweet spot for lift off. Being in the harness just before take off gives me more leverage right before take off, then I unhook. I wear a helmet and since water is so cold, I'm in 2 wetsuits, 3mm shorty with a 3mm full over that, booties with socks, 1mm gloves with 3mm gloves over the 1mm gloves, fleece head warmer under my helmet. I think I have my body protected.

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MagicRide said..
I'm in 2 wetsuits, 3mm shorty with a 3mm full over that, booties with socks, 1mm gloves with 3mm gloves over the 1mm gloves, fleece head warmer under my helmet. I think I have my body protected.

Maximum respect for that commitment.

If you are in the harness while pumping you are giving up at least 2-3kts of early flight, probably 5kts.
If conditions are light I'm usually not in the harness until I've built quite a bit of speed while up on the foil.
Also being in the harness can pin the board to the water if you are needing to pump the foil.

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Grantmac said..
If you are in the harness while pumping you are giving up at least 2-3kts of early flight, probably 5kts.
If conditions are light I'm usually not in the harness until I've built quite a bit of speed while up on the foil.
Also being in the harness can pin the board to the water if you are needing to pump the foil.

You're right, I am losing out on some earlier flight from pumping in the harness. I tried without pumping in the harness and I do come up earlier on foil, but I have very little board speed which makes the board very wobbly after take off. I don't think I'm experienced enough to go up in flight that early yet. So I've been gaining more board speed in the hopes of a more stable take off and flight.

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MagicRide said..

Grantmac said..
If you are in the harness while pumping you are giving up at least 2-3kts of early flight, probably 5kts.
If conditions are light I'm usually not in the harness until I've built quite a bit of speed while up on the foil.
Also being in the harness can pin the board to the water if you are needing to pump the foil.

You're right, I am losing out on some earlier flight from pumping in the harness. I tried without pumping in the harness and I do come up earlier on foil, but I have very little board speed which makes the board very wobbly after take off. I don't think I'm experienced enough to go up in flight that early yet. So I've been gaining more board speed in the hopes of a more stable take off and flight.

+1 on what Grantmac said. If I"m tired or it's blowing hard enough, I will sit in the harness and let the wind do it's work.

Also, if it's light, a few things: It's easy to over sheet as you come out of the water. If things are wobbly, open the sail for a moment and allow the air to attach to the sail and then sheet in as your speed increases and the apparent wind moves forward. If you feel tippy, let the sail out, since there's less sail pressure when foiling, it's easy to pull too hard. If it's light, you may need to keep pumping until you are up to speed even if you are out of the water.

Watch at 2:10 and note at 2:20 how he pauses the sail for just a moment. This is pretty hardcore pumping but gives an idea of what Grantmac was referring to. If you look at the water, you wouldn't imagine anyone would be going.

It took me awhile to figure out that when I windsurf with a fin I should rig big for the lulls and when I foil I should rig small for the gusts. I figured that out after getting trashed a few times!

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Paducah said..

MagicRide said..

Grantmac said..
If you are in the harness while pumping you are giving up at least 2-3kts of early flight, probably 5kts.
If conditions are light I'm usually not in the harness until I've built quite a bit of speed while up on the foil.
Also being in the harness can pin the board to the water if you are needing to pump the foil.

You're right, I am losing out on some earlier flight from pumping in the harness. I tried without pumping in the harness and I do come up earlier on foil, but I have very little board speed which makes the board very wobbly after take off. I don't think I'm experienced enough to go up in flight that early yet. So I've been gaining more board speed in the hopes of a more stable take off and flight.

+1 on what Grantmac said. If I"m tired or it's blowing hard enough, I will sit in the harness and let the wind do it's work.

Also, if it's light, a few things: It's easy to over sheet as you come out of the water. If things are wobbly, open the sail for a moment and allow the air to attach to the sail and then sheet in as your speed increases and the apparent wind moves forward. If you feel tippy, let the sail out, since there's less sail pressure when foiling, it's easy to pull too hard. If it's light, you may need to keep pumping until you are up to speed even if you are out of the water.

Watch at 2:10 and note at 2:20 how he pauses the sail for just a moment. This is pretty hardcore pumping but gives an idea of what Grantmac was referring to. If you look at the water, you wouldn't imagine anyone would be going.

Those guys look like they are on big sails! Yes it looks too light to go out. Amazes me how they can get on foil in that little bit of breeze.

I was reading online on a foiling webpage and I think I found my problem why my board gets tippy after take off. When I get ready to take off, I remember for fact I was pushing side ways a lot with my back foot while pumping instead of pushing down vertically. What do you guys think? Is that why my board was all tippy and falling back into the water almost rail first, sideways?

Makes sense, if you dont have enough speed you can kinda do a spinout. As wyatt Miller has said the foil wants you to ride the wing up/down when taking off instead of pushing the rail in like a formula sailor; if there's too much sideways pushing against the wing at low speed you can stall. Don't be greedy let the wing do its thing
I have done that lots on my formula board trying to head up wind too high and not having enough speed leading to a spinout.
In your case the inconsistent winds are not helping.

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CAN17 said..
Makes sense, if you dont have enough speed you can kinda do a spinout. As wyatt Miller has said the foil wants you to ride the wing up/down when taking off instead of pushing the rail in like a formula sailor; if there's too much sideways pushing against the wing at low speed you can stall. Don't be greedy let the wing do its thing
I have done that lots on my formula board trying to head up wind too high and not having enough speed leading to a spinout.
In your case the inconsistent winds are not helping.

Have to break some of my finboarding habits I guess. How do the foilers do it when they are standing on the rail in footstraps, harnessed in? Is it after your up on foil, you can move your feet to the rail and be balanced?

So watching the video again, the guy is pumping on the rail with his back foot, while off foil in order to get on foil, but looks to be pushing down vertically on the back foot. In addition to that, it also looks like they're pumping their butts too. I have to try these different stances out and see how they work.

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MagicRide said..

CAN17 said..
Makes sense, if you dont have enough speed you can kinda do a spinout. As wyatt Miller has said the foil wants you to ride the wing up/down when taking off instead of pushing the rail in like a formula sailor; if there's too much sideways pushing against the wing at low speed you can stall. Don't be greedy let the wing do its thing
I have done that lots on my formula board trying to head up wind too high and not having enough speed leading to a spinout.
In your case the inconsistent winds are not helping.

Have to break some of my finboarding habits I guess. How do the foilers do it when they are standing on the rail in footstraps, harnessed in? Is it after your up on foil, you can move your feet to the rail and be balanced?

So watching the video again, the guy is pumping on the rail with his back foot, while off foil in order to get on foil, but looks to be pushing down vertically on the back foot. In addition to that, it also looks like they're pumping their butts too. I have to try these different stances out and see how they work.

Getting the pumping happening through your back foot is key to getting flight. It changes the angle of attack to up when you're sending the power at it. Of course, youve got to have your back foot back far enough for it to work. Like pumping on a slalom board, hooking thd back strap and pointing the toes really helps.

i spent time falling in sideways too at the start. I found/find having your back foot close to the boards centreline causes the tippiness. When you foil up the board becomes sensitive to all the little toe to heel weight changes on the centreline. Moving the back foot outboard more is actually better for control.

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Subsonic said..

MagicRide said..

CAN17 said..
Makes sense, if you dont have enough speed you can kinda do a spinout. As wyatt Miller has said the foil wants you to ride the wing up/down when taking off instead of pushing the rail in like a formula sailor; if there's too much sideways pushing against the wing at low speed you can stall. Don't be greedy let the wing do its thing
I have done that lots on my formula board trying to head up wind too high and not having enough speed leading to a spinout.
In your case the inconsistent winds are not helping.

Have to break some of my finboarding habits I guess. How do the foilers do it when they are standing on the rail in footstraps, harnessed in? Is it after your up on foil, you can move your feet to the rail and be balanced?

So watching the video again, the guy is pumping on the rail with his back foot, while off foil in order to get on foil, but looks to be pushing down vertically on the back foot. In addition to that, it also looks like they're pumping their butts too. I have to try these different stances out and see how they work.

Getting the pumping happening through your back foot is key to getting flight. It changes the angle of attack to up when you're sending the power at it. Of course, youve got to have your back foot back far enough for it to work. Like pumping on a slalom board, hooking thd back strap and pointing the toes really helps.

i spent time falling in sideways too at the start. I found/find having your back foot close to the boards centreline causes the tippiness. When you foil up the board becomes sensitive to all the little toe to heel weight changes on the centreline. Moving the back foot outboard more is actually better for control.

That I have to try. Yes, my back foot is in the middle over the mast, that's what you guys mean about centerline. So if I move my back foot more outboard, that should help then? Good to know.

Had no idea I was doing so many wrong things all at once. No wonder the board was acting so strange. It's the darn navigator learning. When the next best day comes, I'll do a video and you guys can get a better idea what's going on.

Sam Ross Flight School Playlist.
You can watch @ .25 speed, look ONLY at the head, watch again look ONLY at the hip, watch it again watch ONLY the feet,..etc.

Just keep trying Magic. I used to pump like crazy with a 7.0 and get nowhere except tired and frustrated. Once you get the right motion, it's heaps more efficient and feels natural. I hardly use the 7.0 these days, I seem to get going with a 5.7 wavesail in the same winds and heaps lighter in the hands.
Also, don't try for miracles under 10 knots to start with. I find 12-14 gets me flying every time.
Cheers, Mort