Hey SB, I've found an old Starboard Formula 186 1m wide (pics attached) for a more than fair price and I'm considering buying it as my learner foilboard. Besides asking whether this is a good purchase I'd like to hear what foil to pair this behemoth with. I see SS foils being praised but those seem to be only run with narrow boards, a bit confusing whether it will match, my second choice would be an RRD which is plenty more high-aspect and race-ish ? Thanks

A board like this is perfect to start foiling on, if you are a racer. Some people say their formula's work great with low aspect foils and small sails and whatnot, but I think those people have never tried a combo which works! I'd recommend the formula only with a stiff foil, preferably carbon mast, and bigger sails >7m. The RRD Alu is not that stiff, which will impair your learning alot (I didnt like it at all, and that was under an 85 wide). If you have a limited budget I would recommend the SB Race alu, for the SB alu masts are quite stiff already. Otherwise, any racey foil will do, also including the more frontfoot powered freerace types (AFS, SB GTR+, the new Lok? LK1 which is in development at the moment) as your straps are quite far forward and the long nose adds weight to the front aswell.

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WhiteofHeart said..
A board like this is perfect to start foiling on, if you are a racer. Some people say their formula's work great with low aspect foils and small sails and whatnot, but I think those people have never tried a combo which works! I'd recommend the formula only with a stiff foil, preferably carbon mast, and bigger sails >7m. The RRD Alu is not that stiff, which will impair your learning alot (I didnt like it at all, and that was under an 85 wide). If you have a limited budget I would recommend the SB Race alu, for the SB alu masts are quite stiff already. Otherwise, any racey foil will do, also including the more frontfoot powered freerace types (AFS, SB GTR+, the new Lok? LK1 which is in development at the moment) as your straps are quite far forward and the long nose adds weight to the front aswell.

Glad to hear it's a good investment. You're right to assume I'm budget constricted. Really bummed to hear the RRD didn't work out for you, which year was the model and what was it about the foil you disliked in particular ? Regarding the SB Race alu, is it really a foil I could begin learning on ?

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Dishpet said..

WhiteofHeart said..
A board like this is perfect to start foiling on, if you are a racer. Some people say their formula's work great with low aspect foils and small sails and whatnot, but I think those people have never tried a combo which works! I'd recommend the formula only with a stiff foil, preferably carbon mast, and bigger sails >7m. The RRD Alu is not that stiff, which will impair your learning alot (I didnt like it at all, and that was under an 85 wide). If you have a limited budget I would recommend the SB Race alu, for the SB alu masts are quite stiff already. Otherwise, any racey foil will do, also including the more frontfoot powered freerace types (AFS, SB GTR+, the new Lok? LK1 which is in development at the moment) as your straps are quite far forward and the long nose adds weight to the front aswell.

Glad to hear it's a good investment. You're right to assume I'm budget constricted. Really bummed to hear the RRD didn't work out for you, which year was the model and what was it about the foil you disliked in particular ? Regarding the SB Race alu, is it really a foil I could begin learning on ?

I tried the RRD V1, they say the V2 is stiffer, so that might change things. However, Glissattitude tested the new foil's stiffness in a machine specially made for the purpose and reported not much has changed. When I tried the V1 I felt it couldn't take the load I put on it, kind of loading up like a spring and then unloading when you get a gust, making for some quite distorting wobbles from left to right. Laterally the wings didn't impress me with the stability as much either, leaving the spring effect aside. RRD recommends the foil to be combined with their pocketboards and small sails in a strapless riding style.

I think the starboard race alu can be a very good platform to learn on, for it is one of the most stable foils you can buy. The foil has the power quite far forward, which for beginners might be a challenge. That being said, I think that is just why the combination with your board is so perfect. your straps are quite far forward, as is your masttrack, plus you have the quite long heavy nose. All together I think the setup would be quite balanced fore-aft.

The RRD foil has the power quite far forward as well, in a similar place as the starboard race I think, meaning that aspect would be quite well balanced as well.

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WhiteofHeart said..

Dishpet said..

WhiteofHeart said..
A board like this is perfect to start foiling on, if you are a racer. Some people say their formula's work great with low aspect foils and small sails and whatnot, but I think those people have never tried a combo which works! I'd recommend the formula only with a stiff foil, preferably carbon mast, and bigger sails >7m. The RRD Alu is not that stiff, which will impair your learning alot (I didnt like it at all, and that was under an 85 wide). If you have a limited budget I would recommend the SB Race alu, for the SB alu masts are quite stiff already. Otherwise, any racey foil will do, also including the more frontfoot powered freerace types (AFS, SB GTR+, the new Lok? LK1 which is in development at the moment) as your straps are quite far forward and the long nose adds weight to the front aswell.

Glad to hear it's a good investment. You're right to assume I'm budget constricted. Really bummed to hear the RRD didn't work out for you, which year was the model and what was it about the foil you disliked in particular ? Regarding the SB Race alu, is it really a foil I could begin learning on ?

I tried the RRD V1, they say the V2 is stiffer, so that might change things. However, Glissattitude tested the new foil's stiffness in a machine specially made for the purpose and reported not much has changed. When I tried the V1 I felt it couldn't take the load I put on it, kind of loading up like a spring and then unloading when you get a gust, making for some quite distorting wobbles from left to right. Laterally the wings didn't impress me with the stability as much either, leaving the spring effect aside. RRD recommends the foil to be combined with their pocketboards and small sails in a strapless riding style.

I think the starboard race alu can be a very good platform to learn on, for it is one of the most stable foils you can buy. The foil has the power quite far forward, which for beginners might be a challenge. That being said, I think that is just why the combination with your board is so perfect. your straps are quite far forward, as is your masttrack, plus you have the quite long heavy nose. All together I think the setup would be quite balanced fore-aft.

The RRD foil has the power quite far forward as well, in a similar place as the starboard race I think, meaning that aspect would be quite well balanced as well.

Just checked the Glissattitude website, very interesting, thanks for pointing that out. RRD has a V3 now with a new mast so maybe some improvements were made over the previous model. You've added a few new criteria for my foil purchase and I'm actually considering the SB Race alu.

Formula boards are excellent for learning to foil, but with a couple caveats. I have three formula boards that I learned on for foiling, so I have gone through this.

1. You will find that the far outboard footstraps do not feel right because of your more upright stance. You will always be wanting to step more inboard. So, a solution is to just remove the footstraps altogether until you get things figured out. Go strapless. Lots of foilers do.

2. The finbox is way back there. For most freeride foils, the front wing is therefore so far aft that you have to keep your back foot almost off the stern to get enough pressure to lift the front wing into flight. If you have removed the footstraps, this is pretty easy to figure out. If you have the ability to move the front wing forward (such as the various fuselage A B C D E positions on the Slingshot, or a Powerplate) you can experiment with getting balance between your feet. Your beginning objective is to get the front wing at about the midpoint between your feet and your sail mast track about 43" in front of the leading edge of the foil strut. Fine tune from there.

Good luck. Welcome to the sport. We are happy to infect you with our disease.

By the way, once you have gotten things figured out, unless you want to race, you will decide you need a REAL foilboard that is designed for freeriding. I did. The REAL freeriding foilboard I got makes it really easy to adjust things and to use on the water, in both front and rear footstraps. There are lots of them out there.

We went thru the same things as Segler.
Moving straps is not too hard.
Balancing front wing is achievable
Carrying clumsy huge board is tough.

The straps wont feel too far outboard when the board is matched with a big enough sail and a powerful racey foil, just to be clear ;)

My 2 cents, I just had amazing results for my first time out. Gear - 2010/2011 Starboard formula LWR, RS Racing 7.8, Neil Pryde Glide wind foil with large front & rear wings, conditions - 5 - 12 knots mostly 8 - 10. My weight - 65kgs. Foiling 90% of the time. I would find it hard to imagine a better first time experience than that.

Hi Dispeth

I just saw your post,,.
I did have the same set up when I started, so thought I would send a few lines
I had a old SB formula board + SS Hoverglide set up

I'ts great to learn on :). The SS Hoverglide is not 'specific' for more narrow boards. It is still one of the easiest foils to learn on.
It is just as easy on a smaller board or as your bigger Formula.

But the difference like also mentioned in some of the posts above, is that if over time you want to use bigger sails and in more wind - more like racing style. Then a carbon foil will be better, but also more $. If you want max speed upwind / downwind, then the more high aspect foils.

If you aim to just get the hang of foiling learning, and in a way use as small sails as you can get away with, then this setup you have in mind (old formula + alu hoverglide) is perfect. Also this base set up takes you a loooong way, as it keeps deliver in performance when you get better.
It still fly upwind / down with ease by the way.

If you really get the foil bug, then a more specific foil board will increase the fun factor.

For reference I went from Old SB formula, then SB Isonic 117 and now SS Wizard 125L, - all with the same foils set up (Hoverglide).

Cheers
Jesper