A frivolous question. I've been curious about the windwings, but with the earlier 4-5m sizes I figured I'd be out slapping by the time I'd get foiling with a wing, so no point. Now that 6m wings have been released, I'm wondering if they might be viable in 10-15kts? I'm also curious as to which would pump onto the foil quicker. I guess the answer will be windfoil, but maybe the upwards pull of the wing provides an advantage?
Thoughts?

Lots of Wingding info in the SUP foil section

Yeah thanks, I've checked it out. Useful info. in particular I'm interested in the windfoil v windwing comparison

Some of my friends were harassing me about using an 8+ sail (ie big) to foil on and then Gong made me look good by coming out with a 9m wing....

Doesn't answer your question, Stretchy, sorry. I suspect from what I've been seeing and reading a one-to-one comparison might be pretty close. But we were amused that Robby Naish told us a year ago that a 4m was all that we needed. We live in a crappy place for wind and could see the piles of whitecaps in the background of their promo videos. A year later, Naish comes out with a line going up to 7.2. Locally, we've taken the wingfoils under our wing (no pun intended) as they are coming from the SUP side and have no foiling experience.

Stretchy,
I am sailing regularly with avid wing nuts. They are sporting 6 meter wings and big front wings in the 2000 cm size. The skilled and light sailors only need 10 mph of wind. They pump the sail and the board aggressively and I am sure the upward lift from the sail is part of the magic. It really only takes them a handful of pumps to get going.
I am out there with them on a windfoil with a 7.5 sail and a 1500 cm^2 front wing. We are getting flying about the same time. I am heavy at 225#, I ride at a intermediate level and use slower freeride gear. I have a speed and wind angle advantage over them but not by much with the one really skilled guy matching me at times.
Skilled windfoilers on racing gear are getting going now in the single digit wind speeds, I do not think the wings are doing that.

I plan to buy a couple of wind wings in the next couple months. I'll still foil with a sail but I want to add the wind wing to my list of things I can do.

Ozone claims that its Wasp 6 metre can get up and going in 5+ knots with a large foil wing. I would think 8 to 10 knots with some skill and you'd be good to go.



Here's a video of a skilled rider using a massive 1100 Moses foil wing with a Wasp 4.0 metre Wind Wing in low winds. You will notice that he uses some pumping to keep the board on foil as he heads back out after riding a wave -- the wind appears to be very light.

For me size for wingfoil = size for windfoil, but the foils wingsize is double or even more than double for wingfoiling than for windfoil. So getting going with a 5.0 wing + 2200sqcm foil and 90L board in a 12 knot gust, or 4.9 + 900sqcm foil and 105L board in a 12 knot gust. I'm 89Kg now. I think less wind should be possible for wingfoiling with the big foil (or smaller/faster foil in the same wind, want to try our new thin and "high" aspect 1780sqcm soon!), but it remains less efficient than a windfoil sail to pump. One of my F-One teammates rides the 4.2m wing with the 900sqcm foil in 10knots, but he's magic and only 75Kg. (Titouan Galea if you want to look him up: www.instagram.com/p/B3cYs1hokOp/?igshid=1ehiba1c42jtf)

I ride all F-One gear, except windsurfing sails, those are S2Maui Dragons.

Wing choice matters aswell. The Naish, slingshot and Ozone for example have quite flat profiles, the Duotone is quite heavy due to the boom design but I think it can be set ver full to increase power. The F-One has a very deep profile with a lot of power, but is a little less stiff in the tips than for example the slingshot (more twist).

My experience after having tried the slingwing, Ozone Wazp and F-One Swing, you can ride the F-One Swing about 1m smaller than the other two. I've only seen the naish in the shop and lifted the Duotone at the waterside.

Here's an interesting video where it is noted just how much the size of the foil wing matters when using a wind wing in light air.

FYI on cloth material. Who knows if and when this material will hit all the wing/kite/sail market. Ocean Rodeo is the first one to use this.

www.thekitemag.com/products/the-aluula-project/

aluula.com/

Some great feedback, thanks
I may well get a 6m Wind wing to go with my Super Cruiser foil next summer. I like the idea of no ropes, booms, masts

Then there is this for those who can't be bothered pumping up onto foil.

I like the windows in that 8m. The top wing nut here was telling me he can't see anything behind the wing. I have to remind myself of that when I am sailing close to wings, especially because they cant hear me coming.
An intersting thing to consider with wings is that they are span limited. To get the best lift you want to turn them vertical, 90 degrees to how this gent in the picture is holding it. When you do that the wing tips can hit the water, this limits how much span these type of sails can have.

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utcminusfour said..
I like the windows in that 8m. The top wing nut here was telling me he can't see anything behind the wing. I have to remind myself of that when I am sailing close to wings, especially because they cant hear me coming.
An intersting thing to consider with wings is that they are span limited. To get the best lift you want to turn them vertical, 90 degrees to how this gent in the picture is holding it. When you do that the wing tips can hit the water, this limits how much span these type of sails can have.

Or you can use a really, really long foil mast (110 cm.).

This one should do the trick!

I've been WWF style wind foiling and wing foiling. I can only compare a 5M to a 5M in side by side testing. It's pretty close but planing, based on the same degree of effort goes to wind foil rig. The Board and foil used remained the same. Upwind also goes to wind foil which makes sense just based on aerodynamic profiles. So that said, I can get up on both in 12 knots sustained, but the wing takes a little more coaxing. Upwind is still great on wing, but as wind-foiler's know, upwind on windsurf rig is just stupid crazy w a foil. Rig time goes to wing, carrying down to beach and storage goes to wing. For the most important feature for a wave or chop surfer, resting the wing or sail in idle while surfing? That for me is a TBD. I can hold mast w one hand on a wave and lever against it in turns but the wing trails nicely behind. It's close. In either case, it's all really fun and a great time to be alive.
PS. Tested on a 7' JP Foil Sup and Naish 1650 and 2000 foils. Sail was an Ezzy Elite flat and wing was a FOne 5.0.

Great feedback Schlogger

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Shlogger said..
I've been WWF style wind foiling and wing foiling. I can only compare a 5M to a 5M in side by side testing. It's pretty close but planing, based on the same degree of effort goes to wind foil rig. The Board and foil used remained the same. Upwind also goes to wind foil which makes sense just based on aerodynamic profiles. So that said, I can get up on both in 12 knots sustained, but the wing takes a little more coaxing. Upwind is still great on wing, but as wind-foiler's know, upwind on windsurf rig is just stupid crazy w a foil. Rig time goes to wing, carrying down to beach and storage goes to wing. For the most important feature for a wave or chop surfer, resting the wing or sail in idle while surfing? That for me is a TBD. I can hold mast w one hand on a wave and lever against it in turns but the wing trails nicely behind. It's close. In either case, it's all really fun and a great time to be alive.
PS. Tested on a 7' JP Foil Sup and Naish 1650 and 2000 foils. Sail was an Ezzy Elite flat and wing was a FOne 5.0.

Hi Shlogger

Great info. Some additional features I'd appreciate you could answer.

Surfing down the line is more confortable with wingfoiling, resting the wing idle, but I've seen on internet some decent bottom turns with windfoiling and small reentries. I haven't seen any real bottom turn with wingfoiling.

Getting into the water in a beach break?
Jumping?
Waterstating among the waves?
Speed?
Foil hurt risk?
Easier learning?

Thank you so much

Foiling in 10 knots with a 4 metre wing. Rider is 185 lbs.

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Stretchy said..
A frivolous question. I've been curious about the windwings, but with the earlier 4-5m sizes I figured I'd be out slapping by the time I'd get foiling with a wing, so no point. Now that 6m wings have been released, I'm wondering if they might be viable in 10-15kts? I'm also curious as to which would pump onto the foil quicker. I guess the answer will be windfoil, but maybe the upwards pull of the wing provides an advantage?
Thoughts?

Rob I'm selling my Slinging 4.2m for $500 your most welcome to have a go on it. I'm actually going down to a 3.5m as in the wind I want to wingding in a 4.2m is too big. On the 4.2m I can get up on foil )with some pumping in around 12-15knts)

Thanks Ben. I recently picked up a 6m Wasp Wing, which I am targeting the 10-15kt wind range. I trialled it at Kbay on Sunday with my formula board. Whilst I did get on the foil a few times, I did find it difficult. The issues were 1/ lack of skill - whilst I can quickly pump onto the foil with a windsurf sail, I still need to develop my technique with the wing; 2/ my board is all wrong - too big and mast too far back is making it very difficult too quickly pop onto the foil. Dejavu's post above demonstrates what can be done with the right skills and kit, which I hope to address

In my post above with the video about winging in 10 knots with a 4 metre wind wing I should add that the winger was using the Moses 1100 front foil wing. It takes a large foil wing for most to get on foil in light winds -- just add some skill and away you go.