I've always been pretty skeptical of people who discuss the finer details of board shapes with great confidence as to the impact of these features. E.g. fins, concaves, tails, channels, rocker etc.
Obviously these have an impact on how a board rides (some more easily understood than others), but I'm starting to think that in some cases a lot of feedback that the average surfer gives about minor design changes is crap.
For example, with a car a driver can drive the same track under almost identical conditions for hours at a time. I can see how this would allow a good driver to feel the effect of relatively subtle changes to the car set up.
But conditions generally change significantly from 1 surf to the next. Besides, the the average surfer might only actually surf for a few minutes in a 2 hour session. And this few minutes will be made up of numerous different waves. And in that time the tide, swell and wind are all likely to change.
So I find it very hard to believe that the average surfer can really isolate the effect of subtle differences in board shape/design over all the other variables involved in surfing.
What's everyone reckon?
I think I can feel the difference between the size of fins but shapes dont feel a huge difference in general.
Up until now Ive never really got on well with single concave boards but the FW seems to be a winner.
If you wanna listen to some real boolsh!z have a look in the SUP room, they really like to crap on in there 
Well, every new board I get is substantially different from the last (but I usually keep them ~ 4yrs), and I definately can tell the difference, but usually it's more about the rocker and rails (and thruster -> quad).
I generally agree with your thoughts, but in the 'old days' when nearly all boards had a skeg/fin box, I reckon moving it an inch forward or back, or putting a smaller fin in was definately noticeable. Having said that, I was surfing all the time then, and would generally make the change mid-surf...
Perhaps what I am talking about are not the subtle changes you are referring too...
I agree with your sentiment and working in retail and with manufacturers can't tell you how many Loonies I've dealt with that complain over 1/16 of an inch rocker or a fin that is not perfectly on the dot or something.
BUT, to feel the difference in things sometimes you need to feel the extremes to understand what they do. Try a board with very small fins or very large.... You will without feel a difference. Take the exact same board with concave or reverse vee, you will feel a difference.
My point is that somewhere in the middle is probably something that feels great to you, even as an average surfer. Secondly an average surfer will surf more to their potential on something perfectly suited. I am not suggesting obsession but by working with a shaper that takes the time to look at what you've been riding, how it feels and what you want to achieve you'll get there a lot quicker.
^^ Hey CMC Ive got a shapers set square you know the clear ones, no board I have mesured up has been perfect. In fact the worst one would be my AB, tbh I dont think a board should be perfect. Makes them even more special imo 
i deal with customers asking advice all the time with and 90% of the time i can make them a board that will work for them. i usually ask them to bring in there current board i and try and work out what it is and isn't doing. most of the time i can shape something that will work for them . i agree with minor dimensions and subtle changes average surfers cant feel much difference unless in consistant wave conditions.
I've been surfing this board for 4 years, it is one of the better boards I have owned. One of the forward fins is set a 1/2an inch closer to the rail, when I realized this I went straight to the shaper to demand a replacement, he was shocked that such a fault slipped by him but suggested as I did not notice it for 2 years he was no longer liable.So no I don't think the average surfer cant ell the difference.
To clarify the question: is the suggestion that minor defects or extremely minor changes to design are undetectable or is it that changes to design total are not detectable.
Doggies measurement comment and the fin thing as above demonstrate that assymetrics are not a negative thing. Many Shapers design boards this way, you can't notice them as you surf differently forehand and backhand. In the case of asymmetric design Murray used to put his toe and heel fin offset to be drivier off the toe and looser off the heel.
Regarding fins, I have seen far too many boards that didn't work become dream boards with a fin size change to believe people can't feel that either. You may not feel the difference between a M7 to a PC7 but you will feel a M3.
My personal belief is that for the most part we are spoilt as most of the thought or design features of a board are just there, we don't need to think about them. Either the board feels good or not, if not change the fins with someone that understands them guidance, rule of thumb, board feels slow and driveless, go bigger, too stiff go smaller.
If that doesnt work speak to your shaper, tell him what you feel. Any good one will know what needs to be done.
IMHO a relationship with a shaper that you can speak with and involvement with the design of your own boards is worth at least 50% of the value of the board.
It's pretty obvious from the naked eye in that photo. Also the tail width looks a fraction wider or differently shaped on the left (with respect to the photo). But you can clearly see the back fin/front fin offset distances are different and the front fin/rail distances are different by a long shot.
I agree. I have stuffed boards up by thinking I knew what I was talking about and demanding design features. I was given exactly what I asked for and I have two boards that feel funny as a result. One is a semi-gun for eight foot surf and it has never let me down and I got my biggest barrel ever on it, but it just feels weird and I lack confidence in it as a result. Confidence is pretty important in eight foot plus surf. 
These days I just take a board or two in (the last time it was three) say what I like about each and what I don't like. I took in three last time because I was asking to move up the scale through widtth and thickness rather than length and I really didn't like the 6'9" I had. I was getting a 6'6" and I definitely didn't want the shaper repeating the other one on me. The dog was one of his boards. He did a cracking job and I love it. I also think people should be willing to play with their fins more. I have my favourite shape, but in my channel board it makes it too loose like a crazy horse, yet I let a mate borrow that one up north and the fins I liked were too tight for him. I put my standard fins in and he suddenly loved the board - the fins were AB2s swapped for K2s.
So now instead of asking for what I want I ask a shaper for what I need and trust that they know a lot more from there thousands of boards and hundreds of customers than I know from the thirty or so boards I have had in my lifetime.
Some of the best boards I have owned were the biggest duds the first time I rode them. Sometimes you just have to persist and find out the good points and change your surfing to suit, next thing you know you've added another dimension to your surfing and your having a ball. I can only recall having 2 duds that I could not get to work, one was off the guy that shaped the board with the offset fin, I got it off of him in Hawaii and it just would not go, so he stood on the beach and watched me and agreed, took the board and had a new one for me 5 days later when I was due to fly out, that's customer service
Once I find the fins I like , mainly cause I am lazy and have enough trouble deciding which board let alone what fins.
