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SP said..Hydromann said..thedrip said..Hydromann said..
Whilst shape, features, rocker and volume are very mindful considerations, fins apparently can contribute to over 50 percent on the boards performance.
You can take something that performs and handles like a slug and completely transform it into a dream ride with the right fins.
You are dreaming.
Fins are important, but can't fix a crap outline, dodgy foil, useless rocker, or poorly designed bottom.
If it was that easy then the legendary shapers with serious career longevity wouldn't be anymore special than the work experience kid shaping his tenth board.
Fair call, and pretty much a given. If you want to get pedantic about what I said take context into account, I was talking about FINS. A crap set of fins or the wrong arrangement even in a good shape can make it a pig slug, change that up and it can completely transform a board. All other features are a consideration, not written off, but a consideration when selecting the right fins for the job.
Damn some of you boys can be totally literal when it suits you and completely obtuse when it doesn't. Heading of discussion is about fins, my two bobs worth was about fins.
If the core is good then fins can make a big difference, if it's crap. i.e something stupid like a reverse rocker, (and just so that it's clear to you that means the kook put the fin plugs on the deck) then pretty much any hull form will see some sort of improvement from selection of the right fins.
As for me humping a Cjet........ mmmmmmmm nice. My cheap bitch pig was worth every cent.
But for me a Webber Diamond or a SubX is sexier, I just can't afford those high class ones so I'll poke around with the "pig" that I can afford and put some lipstick on it ;-)
And I meant no disrespect to any legendary shapers or their work, I was simply trying to relay how much difference the fin combination changeout made to the Cjet, It was of such significance it makes one wonder just how much these so called hull form features do actually make a difference and how much is ego niche marketing? What a lot of pigs we must have ridden 20 to 30 years ago before all these amazing concepts were designed into the modern shapes that only the smartest and most intuitive shapers can understand and explain?
Sounds suspiciously like a lot of marketing guru shaper brain washing to me.
Maybe some brain washed twats need a reality check? Maybe you all been indoctrinated into the church of the guru shaper gods who hold the sacred knowledge and can only define it in esoteric terms beyond the understanding of us mere kook mortals?
Me, I'm a free agent mate. Not brain washed by the style masters or super shaper guru's, appreciate their knowledge and "wisdom" but not convinced that this is worth twice the coin.
Just saying....................... wait for it..........
Just waiting to hear the expletive hit the fan.
Aren't all surfboards hulls? Either planning or displacement.
Merrick developed the tri plane hull and it won more titles than any other so probs not just a marketing spiel.
Also been copied by nearly every shaper so probably consider him a guru shaper God that changed the way boards are made. Haven't seen anyone making pop outs in China develop anything close to that.
Or I might just be a brain washed moron..
Any hull form is both. Below a certain speed they are displacement. Once they achieve sufficient velocity they transition from displacement to planing.
Merrick used well known hydrodynamic principals and theories that resulted in a better hull form. Derived either through education, innovation or intuition.
I was not having a crack at well respected shapers who's designs have proven themselves. I was having a poke at how gullible and easily convinced people can be by cleaver marketing of often intangible and complex engineering and hydrodynamic principles because of a so called brand name or a supposed reputation.
Webber has incredible intuition when it comes to hull forms built on decades of experience, Miller is the same, tonnes of intuition. If you look at the Webber Diamond and the Miller SubX you will see a similarity of design concept outcomes. In other words two completely seperate and intelligent shapers have derived near parallel solutions in isolation of each other.
Not copying each other but building on the years of accumulated shaping knowledge passed on to them and also derived through others.
As for China pop outs. Webbers boards are Asian pop outs. He freely states this in some of his vids. He also states that the quality is second to none now after some rough earlier results.
I would not right off the quality that can be produced. Yes there are cheap and dodgy pop outs that are slugs. But based on what I have seen at a factory direct outlet vs. racked up boards there is very little difference in not just quality but the adoption of well proven hull form and hydrodynamic design concepts which result in boards that would have been considered cutting edge custom designs only 5 years ago.
I have been engineering and designing rotating hydrodynamic equipment for decades (industrial pumps). And I have been manufacturing my designs in China for over 15 years now.
When I started doing this there where problems, too many to list. But with persistence and effort these where sorted, a relationship with a trusted and proven factory was established and the quality improved to match and in many cases exceed what could be done here in Oz at a fraction of the capital or investment cost.
So regardless of anyone's bias, resentments, experiences or whatever when it comes to products from China I know first hand that when done right they can be as good and sometimes better than first world.
If you are in the camp of design masters good on you. If you are believing the biggoted, biased or brainwashing marketing based on a self proclaimed shaping guru that has an axe to grind then re-evaluate and reassess.
Yeah I get that they are feeling the pressure of imports, that always has been and will be the case. Not helped by a gov that has signed up to free trade and no tarrifs to protect them. Not helped by the economies of scale and cost reduction of offshore made. Not helped by the pressure on household budgets that drives the demand for consumers to seek lower cost purchase.
There is a lot more going on than a narrow perspective of once a pig always a pig. And the simple reality is that not all self proclaimed custom shapers provide the absolute best solution. Yes they might design you a specific shape that can perform amazingly for your current level of skill and fitness for the predominant local conditions you will ride. And yes that snapshot of a design may perform 5 or even 10 percent setter hydrodynamically.
Truth is that unless conditionsyou are at an elite level you likely will not notice a difference. Variables of conditions on the day, wave selection, physical endurance (hangover) can and will have a greater impact.
And this is the intangible nature of this sport. The variables that define the outcomes all meet in once place. The interface where our feet glide across the face of the wave and the raw emotion of that.
I don't care what name design anyone rides. I don't care about branding or marketing BS used to entice the gullible with more money than sense. I don't care about skill level or appearances on the water.
As long as the person riding alongside me is feeling the Stoke and grinning their head off I'm stoked for them. They could be riding an Esky lid for all I care.
The friggin eletism of I ride this brand, or I'm a longboarder purist, or I'm a shortboard warrior mentality sucks. As long as someone is having a crack at it, smiling their dial off, and obeying surf eticate, then I don't give a toss what they ride or where it came from.
I'm stoked that they are out there and engaged with the elements and primal forces of that.
Stay stoked everyone.
WindNoob
> 9 months ago, 10 Sep 2019
Some of the best boards I've ever surfed and owned had glassed in fins.
