Back's getting a bit creaky, so figured a kneel up board would help.
So tried a mate's board today, and sure enough, back comes out a lot better. Picking up waves was easier, but on a steepish wave I found the board was running away from me and I fell off the back. I think the weight of the board may be the problem, also makes it harder to turn.
This board was a fraction under 9kg, 9'4" X 23" X 3". I'm thinking of knocking up something similar, except shorter, thicker and lighter,

Maybe a bit under 9' same width 3.5" or 4" thick and closer to 5kg than 9.
I think that should paddle as well, turn easier, and not take off on it's own down a steep wave.

Any thoughts? Can a long board be too light, maybe a problem in strong off shores, getting blown off the top?

Oh yea, I'm only 65kg.

Enjoyed my session today, although I surfed like a kook, I don't think it would take me too long to remember how to walk the board, get my foot back to turn and try some nose riding again.

Just need to know what to build and why.

Strange question and by strange I mean not many people looking for a knee paddler these days so just spit balling ideas here....

Personall I'd go narrower and a touch longer, something around 22 1/4 x 3 1/8 and about 9'4.

I'm your weight and can knee paddle my board that is those dims. I'd do it more often but I have ****ty old man knees so it starts to aches.

You might run into a prob with the rocker, knee paddlers tend to be flattish which might make it harder to get some rocker in it for steeper waves but narrower should make it go rail to rail easier.

I think narrow boards paddle better than wider boards so that should get you in earlier and hopefully avoid the late steep drop.

Let us know what you end up going.

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SP said..
Strange question and by strange I mean not many people looking for a knee paddler these days so just spit balling ideas here....

Thanks SP, My back plays up laying down, cuts down my surfing time, and makes it slower to get up. I was quite comfortable on my kness yesterday, and although way out of condition, managed to stay out much longer. The board I tried yesterday, paddled very well I thought. I don't need to improve it's paddle ability, but I'd like to improve manoeuvrability. I measured up the board this morning, it has constant rocker, no flat spots, and from what I remember a lot more rocker than the mid 60s boards had. (the last time I had a board I could knee paddle.)

I also want to be able to nose ride it, so don't want to slow it down with too much nose rocker.

Just had a long discussion with Bugs, the shaper of the board. The rocker was virtually preset by the blank, we both think there's too much in the middle. He's going to loft up a modified version with his 3d cad program, we may even persuade the guy opposite my workshop to CNC shape it. I'll come back later with any progress.
This may be an ongoing thread, because I'm going to try minimum weight, that could compromise durability. We'll see how it holds up and performs, and if we make more changes, for what reason.

Hey Decrepit yes Bugs is a multi talented bloke.
So construction PU stringer blank with S glass? Or EPS core sandwich maybe thin wood veneer to wrap rails?

Sounds great Decrepit.

Who's Bugs ?

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515 said..
Hey Decrepit yes Bugs is a multi talented bloke.
So construction PU stringer blank with S glass? Or EPS core sandwich maybe thin wood veneer to wrap rails?

EPS core, complete 3mm 80kg/m>3 PVC wrap,no timber.
Can't decide on the cloth though, it will be 1 layer 4oz on the inside, and I think 1layer 4oz on the bottom, but I probably need a bit more where my knees and feet go. an additional 6oz of carbon, or just another 4oz of glass?

McHenry
Bugs, is Phil Smith, as 515 says a multi talented guy, I'm lucky enough to be a good mate. He's a sailmaker by profession. but has been into making surfboards and windsurfers from an early age. He's currently more involved with foiling moths, but classic mals are a big interest of his. He has a Robert August mounted on his lounge room wall, the board he shaped and I'm now riding, was based on that.

515 & bugs both know what they are talking about !

Thanks BTB I hope you getting plenty of water time.

Hey Decrepit, that's going to be light and reckon use a carbon patch for you knees.
Look forward to updates

You getting a knee patch too??

Bugs has given me a very quick tuit on 3Dshaper, I'm still very much feeling my way at the moment. I've always designed my boards on the blank, and full size rocker templates on the work table. I'm having trouble getting my head around this small scale.
But here's what I've got so far.



I like the green line more but Bugs says more parallel rails forward nose ride better. That's probably correct, because many years ago, we made "side slippers:, that had a bit of a hip just forward of centre. You stalled the board from the nose, by pulling the fin out at the top of the wave, side slipping down the wave, and re-engaging fin at the bottom.

Hi Decrepit,
The more time you spend using the program the more familiar and proficient you will be.
CAD is your friend as it means you have an accurate design and (if) when you do your next board you may change from the more parallel to your green line or a tweak the rocker - it's all on file.
When you get your board cut get a rocker jig cut.
For the outside layers I like S glass, it feels nicer and is bit stronger than E glass.
Keep the updates coming

i think you'll need to workout those rails for that thickness and wave type,
but your shaper should be all over it.

Rails and deck are my next job, when I get around to it. But I guess the "V" on the bottom comes first.

Had a play with rails, v and deck, but still think it's much easier to shape on the blank. But I haven't given up yet, I'll persist for a while longer.

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decrepit said..
Back's getting a bit creaky, so figured a kneel up board would help.
So tried a mate's board today, and sure enough, back comes out a lot better. Picking up waves was easier, but on a steepish wave I found the board was running away from me and I fell off the back. I think the weight of the board may be the problem, also makes it harder to turn.

Any thoughts? Can a long board be too light, maybe a problem in strong off shores, getting blown off the top?

Sorry I am late to this I could have saved you the expense of making a board.

1. You are off the back because you have yet to develop the reflexes to move forward enough, and quickly enough.
Hang in there on this one. (see below, you could avoid steeper takeoffs - with a paddle).

2. Yes a board can be too light. I have experienced this on a 10 ft softtop. It was impossible to bury a rail for a turn.

3. The board you need is out there on the 2nd hand market.
Maybe this one:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Stand-Up-Paddle-Surfing-and-Cruising-Boards/~l_7sg/2018-Jimmy-Lewis-Super-Tech-Carbon-7-10-275-inches.aspx
Many people went too small a couple of years ago with their SUPs

So, consider getting a SUP that is too small to stand up and paddle on,
Get a paddle that is short enough (or that telescopes),
Get a surf that is too bumpy to SUP on,
Get a board that surfs like a mini mal or longboard
and you have kneelupps.info/

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makesurf said..

decrepit said..
Back's getting a bit creaky, so figured a kneel up board would help.
So tried a mate's board today, and sure enough, back comes out a lot better. Picking up waves was easier, but on a steepish wave I found the board was running away from me and I fell off the back. I think the weight of the board may be the problem, also makes it harder to turn.

Any thoughts? Can a long board be too light, maybe a problem in strong off shores, getting blown off the top?

Sorry I am late to this I could have saved you the expense of making a board.

1. You are off the back because you have yet to develop the reflexes to move forward enough, and quickly enough.
Hang in there on this one. (see below, you could avoid steeper takeoffs - with a paddle).

2. Yes a board can be too light. I have experienced this on a 10 ft softtop. It was impossible to bury a rail for a turn.

3. The board you need is out there on the 2nd hand market.
Maybe this one:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Stand-Up-Paddle-Surfing-and-Cruising-Boards/~l_7sg/2018-Jimmy-Lewis-Super-Tech-Carbon-7-10-275-inches.aspx
Many people went too small a couple of years ago with their SUPs

So, consider getting a SUP that is too small to stand up and paddle on,
Get a paddle that is short enough (or that telescopes),
Get a surf that is too bumpy to SUP on,
Get a board that surfs like a mini mal or longboard
and you have kneelupps.info/

Been a long week,thanks for the laugh mate

It's a Asea Geeup

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Cobra said..
It's a Asea Geeup

Couldn't be,Asea has enough trouble remembering is login details for his own account

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makesurf said..
>> 3. The board you need is out there on the 2nd hand market.
Maybe this one:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Stand-Up-Paddle-Surfing-and-Cruising-Boards/~l_7sg/2018-Jimmy-Lewis-Super-Tech-Carbon-7-10-275-inches.aspx
Many people went too small a couple of years ago with their SUPs

Thanks for the alternative suggestion, but that's way to wide, I couldn't sit on it without dislocating hips, and I don't think it would nose ride all that well, too much rocker up front.
Making a board isn't a problem, it's designing it with 3Dshaper that's giving me a hard time.
I've got top bottom and "V" somewhere close but I can't figure out tuck.
I've got none at the back like I want, but now there's no tuck anywhere.
I'm used to drawing a tuck line on the board where the tuck fades in and out, don't seem to be able to do that with 3DShaper.
Do surfboards these days have continuous tuck or am I missing something.

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Macaha said..

Cobra said..
It's a Asea Geeup

Couldn't be,Asea has enough trouble remembering is login details for his own account

He loves his Chinese food, Or was that Indian I can't remember.

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decrepit said..

makesurf said..
>> 3. The board you need is out there on the 2nd hand market.
Maybe this one:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Stand-Up-Paddle-Surfing-and-Cruising-Boards/~l_7sg/2018-Jimmy-Lewis-Super-Tech-Carbon-7-10-275-inches.aspx
Many people went too small a couple of years ago with their SUPs

Thanks for the alternative suggestion, but that's way to wide, I couldn't sit on it without dislocating hips, and I don't think it would nose ride all that well, too much rocker up front.
Making a board isn't a problem, it's designing it with 3Dshaper that's giving me a hard time.
I've got top bottom and "V" somewhere close but I can't figure out tuck.
I've got none at the back like I want, but now there's no tuck anywhere.
I'm used to drawing a tuck line on the board where the tuck fades in and out, don't seem to be able to do that with 3DShaper.
Do surfboards these days have continuous tuck or am I missing something.

I am a long way from an expert, but from watching others and having it explained, you need to create multiple points along the rail to do those sort of adjustments. If you dont limit adjusMents via the points then the program smooths everything out over the whole blank. The extra points operate like your center point. If you don't do this you can end up with really weird fouls and rails.

hope that makes sense. And everything I mentioned is about AKU, so it might be completely wrong.

Yep, that makes sense and was what I was trying to do. But I can't figure out how to make a tuck anywhere now.

OK, I've managed to get my tuck back in the middle, but I've now got a huge tuck at the tail. There's a "rail master" button, but when clicked says I need to pay for the professional version!
Any way, I've sharpened my planer blades, I'm going to design on the blank and shape manually.

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makesurf said.. >>>
2. Yes a board can be too light. I have experienced this on a 10 ft softtop. It was impossible to bury a rail for a turn.

I think this is more about rail buoyancy that board weight. We solved this problem over 50 years ago, when boards were getting much lighter. The trick was to make the rails thinner and sharper, taking the buoyancy out of the rails near the tail, and getting rid of any tuck there, that can also add a bit of planing lift. The main problem I envisage with a wide nosed very light board is the effect of strong off shore winds, trying to blow the board off the wave.

OK a modicum of progress. I've bought the slab of 13kg foam, and bugs and I have been lofting up rocker lines.

This is what we've come up with.
Bug's version


that's 9'3" long and 3.5" thick

But the deck looks wrong to me, so I've come up with this
9'0" long and 3.8" thick



Bugs says his deck tail kick helps hold the back down when nose riding, I suspect he's right, but how much is this effect, does it mean you can hang 10 instead of just 5? or is it more pronounced?

Now I have to get my shaping stands mounted again, and start shaping.

I let Ryan loose with a pencil today.
www.barefootdivision.com.au/shapers/

So I've cut out his changes in 3mm MDF, hopefully that won't catch on the hot wire like plywood does.



It wasn't Bugs that said deck tail kick aids nose riding, it was Ryan, so instead of a turned down deck at the tail, it's now turned up, with much more tail rocker at the last foot. Can't wait to get it in the water and see how it goes. I'll hot wire the rocker tomorrow arvo and maybe start shaping, if I can sort the shaping stands out.

So now I'm wondering where my knees will go.
I ended up with sore knees last time I went out, being an old sook, I'm thinking of inserting knee pads into the deck.
I guess the centre of flotation will be right on the centre of gravity of the shaped blank. And my knees will want to be a bit behind there, so the nose is just out of the water. Although that will happen if I'm sitting on my heels, so maybe right on the centre of gravity, then I can shift my weight forward when paddling for a wave.
Any thoughts anybody?

What about a kneeboard pad.

www.covepad.com/

I used EVA foam 3mm thick diamond pattern for grip on my 8'4" which was similar to most sups. For me it's a easy change from sup to surfboard with familiar and grippy feel.
There is another thread about waxless alternative for the rest of your board.
Thinking you probably want thicker than 3mm for kneeling but a reasonable solution for patch or full deck grip.
Good luck with your hotwiring your blank

Thanks guys, I have some foam I used for the foot pads on my last windsurfer, nice and thick. But as I want to keep the weight down, I'll,only put it where the knees actually go. I don't want to trip over them so I'll recess them. Probably won't get round to hot wiring until Wednesday.

Why **** the board sticking sh!t trinkets all over it or countersinking crap in the deck.
just put a pair of neoprene knee pads on.
Easyer to play with knee pad thickness than all that crap